Battery and solar requirements with boondocking

tonyo35

(Title altered for search purposes. Moderator)

Hi guys  I took the plunge and finally committed to picking up a new Boon dock Lite 2019 from Juanita Valley RV in Pa.  Travis our sales person was great to deal with and by far they gave me my best price. I have some questions the first being is that I will be Boon docking and understand from this forum that you need to upgrade the battery system. As part of the purchase they agreed to upgrade it to two AGM 27 Series batteries over the one standard battery.  They also offered me two AGM 24 batteries.  Would the AGM 24's work or should I stick with the 27's but the 27's will take up more room on the hitch.  What do people think in terms of how long I can be off the grid? 

 Was also considering a solar panel to complement the system but wondering if that is needed as I typically do not camp out for more than four days and would be frugal with power use,  Can someone recommend a workable solar system that is not super expensive.  

Have no prior experience with campers as I always tent camped.  Thanks Bohemian Bob

Awca12a

The AGMs store more energy for longer than flooded cells and you will be very happy you did this upgrade from the start.  If they are still offering it, have the, install a Victron BMV712 battery monitor so you know how much battery is remaining g until a recharge is needed.  Simplifies things tremendously and the wiring is easy to do from factory.  The solar system lets you park in reasonable exposure, use the systems and be energy neutral even after 4 days.  

klenger

I provided and the dealer installed BattleBorn 100 AH lithium battery in my 320S. 30 lbs and you can use most all of the 100 AH.  I also had the dealer install a 200 watt Zamp solar system.  I just picked it up last week, and camped 3 nights with hookups at the T@Bazona, so I can't really say how the performance is yet.  Look into the BattleBorn.  Pricey at about $950, but it has a 10 year life, totally maintenance free.

dsfdogs

@klenger I assume the BattleBorn is in the front tub? Is it in a battery box? How did the dealer install it (as it's closer to a group 27 size)? I just clicked on your link and see you have the bigger tub, which helps. I've studied and researched these and talked with the company...oh how I want one! Thanks for any info. (Unfortunately my dealer and a local RV shop are not up to date on lithium).

klenger

@dsfdogs BattleBorn claims the battery is the same size as a group 27 automotive battery.  Mine is installed in a standard plastic RV battery  box in the tub.  I don't know how the batteries are normally installed in the T@Bs but I believe that a group 24 and group 27 are almost the same physical size.  Check out the dimensions here:  https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/bci-battery-group-sizes.html

Sharon_is_SAM

@tonyo35, first, if you are limiting your boondocking to 4 days and you are frugal with power, you may be able to get away without solar - for now.  More importantly, if you are going to the expense and trouble of adding new batteries (AGM is an excellent choice) you are best served by having a large amp capacity.  In general the larger the group size, the higher the capacity, but you need to inquire about the 20 hour amp capacity.  Many Tabbers who have added dual 6 volts (AGM or wet cell) wired in series have benefitted by a 225 amp capacity.  That high of capacity allows you to use half before requiring a recharge.  If you are frugal and use 30 or less amps a day, you can go for 4 days.  The only problem with the 6v AGMs is they are heavy and a lot of folks end up putting them inside due to excess tongue weight, tub size constraints, and theft prevention.  

@jkjenn recently replaced her wet cells with AGMs ( MAXTANKS) and @rfuss928 uses Optima and they can tell you the 6v AGM merits.  We have been happy with our 150 amp 12v AGM mounted in our tub that is offset to accomodate the size.  It is almost 100 # so not an easy lift for a casual thief.

Regarding solar.  Most folks benefit by a 100 amp solar suitcase.  You can get plug and play with the charge controller mounted on the panel (not ideal) or buy the charge controller separately and locate it close to the battery (best).  I would suggest shoppjng Amazon for a Renogy product (open box specials at Amazon or Renogy will have reduced prices).  Renogy has great customer service via phone or email.  If you are not in a hurry for the panel, set up a Camel Camel Camel account and it will identify Amazonsales.  (We bought most of our gear using this price tracker.)

https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/batteries-and-charging/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html#Major%20Battery%20Types

ScottG

@tonyo35, you have just waded into two of the most discussed topics on this forum. If you want to get a PhD in battery selection, solar configuration, and how they work together, grab a cup of coffee and buckle in 'cause you'll be here a while.  ;-)

I'm also a former tent camper, usually dry camp about four days at a time (sometimes longer), and am judicious with power use. I survived my entire first season using the trailer exactly as it came, though I'll admit my stock group 24 wet cell was toast by September.

The next year I upgraded (slightly) to a group 27 wet cell ($90) and a 100W solar suitcase ($250) and that equipment has served me well for the last three seasons.

If you're a belt-and-suspenders type looking to stimulate the economy with some some excess cash (and there's nothing at all wrong with that) than toss a couple grand at new equipment right out of the gate. Think of it as a pricey insurance policy--you probably won't need it but you'll be covered just in case. Otherwise, my suggestion is get your trailer, go camping and have fun. You'll figure out pretty quickly what your needs are--they may not be the same as somebody else's. While you gain some perspective, you'll also keep hanging out here (I hope!) and get lots of info to guide your future upgrades.  :-)  

pthomas745

30 amps a day?!  That would be hard work, turning everything on and watching TV all day.   More power to you.  (I am jealous!)   Kidding aside, @Sharon_is_SAM and @ScottG are putting out good advice.

I have the stock battery, and I can live all four days on the total 35 usable amp hours.   Which is, admittedly, not "fun".  It takes a while to understand how much power things use.    I still have all my tent camping rechargeable battery lights, etc.  It isn't hard to live frugally with little power,  and as a ex tent camper, I find any of my 12V powered trailer items to be miraculous luxuries.

And, by adding the absolute simplest 100 watt solar kit, I can stay out as long as my water and waste tanks last.  It did take a little bit to learn, but solar is much simpler than people think.  Go to Amazon, find a kit (panel, controller, cables to connect to the battery) that will probably be less than 200 dollars. 

If I had a trailer to order today, though, I'd have two six volt batteries. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@pthomas745, we don’t use that much either, but some people who work on the road with photo editing, laptop charging, running a frig on battery use even more!  A good point made regarding boondocking...even with water conservation, your tanks may well need dumping before you deplete your batteries!

ScottG

When I first joined this forum there were two frequent contributors who covered both ends of the spectrum. One religiously charted power usage and pioneered T@B battery upgrades and solar utilization. The other successfully camped full time with the stock battery and a basic solar suitcase and didn't seem to give the technical minutiae much consideration. I took a little lesson from both.

I do agree that if you are truly boondocking (i.e., camping in a place that has no water supply or bathroom facilities) the T@B's puny tanks are probably going to be the limiting factor. 

pthomas745

@Sharon_is_SAM I understand full timers.  I was being a bit facetious, but even for the editing and battery recharging I do, 35 amps seems so ...luxurious!    The primary reason I had to improve my solar education after buying the trailer was to support those sorts of activities, although it isn't really "work."    I will be upgrading my battery to a 100AH AGM before spring. 

@ScottG I read the solar threads so many times and asked many questions and learned so much from the other owners here.  @tonyo35 , if you haven't found JkJenns superb blog on solar and power management, this is the perfect place to start.

https://jenngrover.com/category/tb/power-management/

tonyo35

thanks guys for all the great information.  Did not realize batteries were so complicated. Will likely go with the 27 's as Junitua Rv did state they can be mounted on the wings for the trailer hitch.  

ScottG

I think that's a good choice, since you already had the dual 27's in the pipeline anyway. While you may not ultimately need all that juice, I've yet to hear anyone complain of having too much reserve power.  ;-)

T_BDancing

I have always been a tent camper just like @tonyo35, currently looking to purchase a 320 S. I have learned a lot from this forum but still have so much more to learn! 

Know nothing about solar... Does a battery monitor always come with solar system or not at all? Thanks.

pthomas745

Some solar controllers will have a display that tells you what the battery is reading, which is ok, but not very useful.  It will tell you if your battery is charging from the panel, at least.

The Victron solar controllers have bluetooth dongles or built in bluetooth that can tell you a lot about your battery, but I've never used one, so someone else will have to chime in on whether or not it tells the current state of charge.

The gold standard are the Victron shunt models (i.e. BMV712) which attach directly to the battery and displays the "real time" charging and battery state.

MuttonChops

T_BDancing said:

... Does a battery monitor always come with solar system or not at all?

Are you asking about Monitors or Controllers ?

Solar has four main components; Panel, Controller, Monitor, Battery.

Trailer Factory installed Solar generally include the Panel, Controller, Battery.

If purchasing an aftermarket Suitcase Panel System or a system named "Charger" . . . then normally they include the Solar Panels, a Controller, and battery connection clamps.  A controller is needed to correctly transfer the Solar generated power into a battery.

If building your own system, stand alone panels do not come with a controller . . . you need to purchase one.

A "Monitor" is not required but is very helpful to understanding a solar system power status.

T_BDancing

Wow! Thank you, @MuttonChops and @pthomas745. Didn't I just learn something!!! Unfortunately a 2019 320 does not come with a solar connection port, am I right?

pthomas745

It doesn't have the "zamp" SAE port.  That is not "unfortunate", since there are plenty of ways to connect your controller directly to your battery.  A simple set of alligator clips will do the job just fine.