Low Rider SUV Wagon

Bill_F

TDI Sport Wagon Tow Car

Bill_F

Telescoping Trailer Tongue and Removable Motorcycle Rack

Bill_F

Tab 320 Motorcycle Carrier towed by Low Rider SUV

Denny16

Those are not low riders, just standard height cars.
cheers

DougH

TDI Station Wagon Tow Team Unite!  

4ncar

The drawbar extension WITH a moto makes me very nervous in respect to the integrity of the tongue and how much weight it can support. Those extensions typically reduce your tongue weight by 50%, and then a moto?😬

DougH

@4ncar I was kind of wondering how any wagon could handle a 600lb hitch weight and yet look so level.  Maybe a 4" spring perch or longer stiffer rear coils and longer shocks. But most car platform rear subframes are not made to handle that much weight unless a fabrication shop reenforced the frame. With money anything is possible, but at some point you'd also need a higher weight rate Dexter axle and maybe beefed up camper frame elements.

@Bill_F Any details on the build and how it was done?

ChanW

You think that car has an actual "frame" for beefing up?!?

DougH said:

.......
Maybe a 4" spring perch or longer stiffer rear coils and longer shocks. But most car platform rear subframes are not made to handle that much weight unless a fabrication shop reenforced the frame.
.......

DougH

@ChanW  True... I should have said subframes in a unibody platform (if that's even the right term). But the horsepower fans often weld and bolt in cross chassis and subframe connectors to stiffen a car up and prevent it from tearing itself apart if you've doubled or tripled the original horsepower. If money is no object you can make anything tow way beyond it's original capacity... no?

P.S. used to have a hopped up Firebird convertible with entirely modified / replaced drivetrain and suspension, with roll cage and various connectors ensuring twist was minimal. The wunnerful hobbies you can have when there's a lot of overtime at work.

4ncar

DougH said:

@ChanW  True... I should have said subframes in a unibody platform (if that's even the right term). But the horsepower fans often weld and bolt in cross chassis and subframe connectors to stiffen a car up and prevent it from tearing itself apart if you've doubled or tripled the original horsepower. If money is no object you can make anything tow way beyond it's original capacity... no?

P.S. used to have a hopped up Firebird convertible with entirely modified / replaced drivetrain and suspension, with roll cage and various connectors ensuring twist was minimal. The wunnerful hobbies you can have when there's a lot of overtime at work.

Doug: I went down that “crooked path” as well; my last car was. ‘79 T/A highly modified to the point it was not street legal. Back halfed, funny car cage (12 point) so that the
 entire chassis was tied.

mona

That setup scares me. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Anybody know the weight limits of the 320 tongue framing?  

Denny16

The trailer tongue extension Bill F showed above is an extension of the trailer tongue, increasing the distance between the vehicle hitch point and the trailer axle (the opposite of putting the extension on the TV hitch point).  This adds a longer lever to the trailer, reducing the tongue weight, not reducing thenTV hitch weight, and can increase the chance for trailer sway.  This is how they setup trailers on smaller TV in EU, but they drive them at slower speeds.  If Bill F keeps his speed to 55-60 mph max, he may get away with this setup.  Not sure how legal this setup would be in some states...
cheers

TomCanada

 @Denny16 you stole my thunder lol - I had the below mostly typed up this morning before work distracted me - good to hear we're on the same page

--------------------------

While an extended drawbar can reduce towing capacity due to the higher torque exerted by the tongue at a greater distance from the vehicle, if the trailer itself is where the extension resides, assuming the effects of the added weight of the extension are less than the lowering effect of moving further from the trailer axle, you might actually see a *drop* in tongue weight by extending it.  It's a tricky concept to wrap your head around - I actually built a little lego model a while back to prove it to myself  

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12033/2021-t-b-400-bd-tongue-hitch-weigh/p1

>>>edited to remove inappropriate language<<<<. Verna

DougH

You guyz got me to thinking... so I looked up the weight of motocross / enduro motorcycles.  Sheesh... they don't weigh anything... that's only like having three group 31 AGM batteries up front!

Bill_F

Regarding loading on back of trailer, steel tubing inserted inside lower Yakima rack bar for additional stiffness. 

At front of trailer, original trailer tongue jack exchanged for tilt-up jack that folds up parallel to trailer tongue frame. No more smashing the protruding OEM lower jack stub at driveway dips, etc. Also allowed for installation of adjustable, two position, extendable trailer tongue.

The expanding and contracting trailer tongue was professionally installed and welded in. The extra trailer tongue length allows room for two electric bikes in front of the equipment box on a sleeve hitch bike rack mounted to the trailer (in my case using 1up bike rack) or a trailer mounted, removable motorcycle ramp. The receiving sleeve for the bike rack is also removable. With trailer tongue extended, full turning radius is then possible without bikes or motorcycle hitting the tow vehicle.

The trailer tongue is appropriately reinforced at trailer frame. It can be used at either stock OEM trailer tongue length or in the extended position to allow more room for the e-bikes or a motorcycle utilizing the separate, removable motorcycle rack. The adjustable trailer tongue is completely removed when not in use for additional anti-theft security.

Tows well and very stable at all speeds, arguably better than OEM configuration when loaded up and in the extended trailer tongue position.

Modification process was straightforward and relatively simple.

Bill_F

Fast forward to about half way point for the towing review.  These things can be bought for less than many of the pick-ups and 'SUV's out there. 

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=PJkZYMymKqqw5wKRloT4CA&q=mercedes+estate+caravan+test+uk&oq=mercedes+estate+caravan+test+uk&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADOgsILhCxAxCDARCTAjoLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6CAguELEDEIMBOgIIADoCCC46BQgAELEDOgUILhCxAzoICC4QxwEQowI6DgguELEDEMcBEKMCEJMCOggIABCxAxCDAToOCC4QsQMQgwEQxwEQowI6CAguELEDEJMCOggILhDHARCvAToLCC4QxwEQrwEQkwI6BQgAEMkDOgUIABCGAzoECAAQDToHCAAQyQMQDToGCAAQDRAeOgQIHhAKOgYIABAWEB5QjSVY-6wBYMezAWgAcAB4AIAByAOIAYA3kgEKMC41LjI0LjEuMZgBAKABAbABAA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:4b282450,vid:IVqWUaxsMl4,st:0

Bill_F

VW tdi Sportwagon version:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=t5oZYLHdLIel_QajiZ-ACA&q=vw+sportwagon+practical+caravan+test&oq=vw+sportwagon+practical+caravan+test&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADMgQIHhAKOg4ILhCxAxDHARCjAhCTAjoLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6CAguEMcBEKMCOgUIABCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6BQguELEDOgIIADoCCC46BQgAEMkDOgUILhCTAjoECAAQCjoHCAAQyQMQCjoECAAQDToGCAAQFhAeOgUIABDNAlDJI1ibrwFgz7kBaABwAHgAgAHNBYgBz0KSAQ8wLjE0LjE3LjMuMS4wLjGYAQCgAQGwAQA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:19d8d3df,vid:PKTCXFtior4,st:0

rh5555

@Bill_F - I'm intrigued by your telescoping frame extension.  Could you post some more details and pictures of how this was accomplished?

Bill_F

Happy to take some pics for you. Could this wait for a week or so when I see the trailer again to prep for a short trip?

rh5555

@Bill_F - Of course!  I have a TAB400  with a high tongue weight and no room to add bicycles.  A longer frame could be the answer...

m_lewis

rh5555 said:

@Bill_F - Of course!  I have a TAB400  with a high tongue weight and no room to add bicycles.  A longer frame could be the answer...

I once had a 24' sailboat with a trailer that had an extendable tongue. It was fabricated of 3" square steel tubing about 12 feet long that slid into a 4" receiver. It had a few holes for pins to lock it in place. Needed to allow the trailer to back far enough down the boat ramp to float the boat without submerging the truck. I wouldn't take off on a highway with it extended, but it did markedly reduce the tongue weight.
A similar extension for the T@B would require extensive rework of the tongue, relocation of the jack, and maybe the spare tire, but it would certainly allow for much tighter turning radius when maneuvering, as well as reduce tongue weight.

It is easy to get over 500 lbs on the tongue in my 2019 T@B 400 BDL. This figure is simply too high for most tow vehicles, including the most popular pickup sold in America. If nuCamp had only placed the axle a few inches forward, it would be OK.

Bill_F

Counter-balanced some weight with Nucamp boonie-model Yakima rack and spare tire mounted on rear roof. Spent formative years at our family owned boat dealership. Pretty much copied the sailboat trailer extension idea. Wasn't that difficult.

Marceline

m_lewis said:

I once had a 24' sailboat with a trailer that had an extendable tongue. It was fabricated of 3" square steel tubing about 12 feet long that slid into a 4" receiver. It had a few holes for pins to lock it in place. Needed to allow the trailer to back far enough down the boat ramp to float the boat without submerging the truck. 

What kind of boat did you have? I've seen that arrangement but we just chocked the trailer wheels, disconnected the trailer, then put a pretty strong line between the trailer and the tow vehicle to back down the ramp. But the boat/trailer together only weighed about 1400 lbs.

Verna

I have have one of those sliding tongue boat trailers in my barn.  It’s a Shore Land’r. It’s too big for my small fishing boat (but it was all I could find at the time for sale), and I finally found a smaller trailer. The Shore Land’r will be for sale after this snow is gone!

Bill_F

Bingo Verna above. The Shorelander brand sold at our dealership years ago was the one I remembered and essentially copied relative to converting my Nucamp trailer over to a telescoping trailer tongue. The motorcycle rack held in place with one removable pin was my own fabrication design.

Denny16

@m_lewis. nüCamp did shift the axle forward on the 2021 TaB400 to reduce the tongue weight.  You could try packing some of,yiur heavier items aft of the trailer’s axle.  Loaded up, our 2018 TaB400 tongue weight is around 450lbs (400lbs dry with propane bottle).
cheers

m_lewis

Marceline said:

m_lewis said:

I once had a 24' sailboat with a trailer that had an extendable tongue. It was fabricated of 3" square steel tubing about 12 feet long that slid into a 4" receiver. It had a few holes for pins to lock it in place. Needed to allow the trailer to back far enough down the boat ramp to float the boat without submerging the truck. 

What kind of boat did you have? I've seen that arrangement but we just chocked the trailer wheels, disconnected the trailer, then put a pretty strong line between the trailer and the tow vehicle to back down the ramp. But the boat/trailer together only weighed about 1400 lbs.

It was an ODay Tempest, 3000 lbs displacement, of which 1250 pounds was the cast iron fixed keel. The trailer was a good 1500 lbs more.

Marceline

m_lewis said:

It was an ODay Tempest, 3000 lbs displacement, of which 1250 pounds was the cast iron fixed keel. The trailer was a good 1500 lbs more.

I can see why you would not want to hand steer that down the launch ramp. I had a Wylie Wabbit, which weighs around 900#, with about 400# in the keel. Basically a dinghy on steroids (24'). 

Bill_F

Roger and Sue above, I mentioned I could take some pictures of the telescoping Tab trailer tongue details.  I expect to take a few late this week.  May I send them to you offline via e-mail?

Photos too large and deleted.  Moderator
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/47/what-size-should-my-posted-forum-photos-be#latest

Bill_F