Cracks on exterior wall of Avia

Georgiabulldog

Hi, I’m look at an Avia near Atlanta and I’m seeing cracks on the exterior wall. Is this a major issue and what could possibly be wrong. Thank you Jay

Georgiabulldog

Rv

Georgiabulldog

They’re telling me it’s just an old sticker/ decal?? I’m going soon to see it. My first time posting. Sorry!

Georgiabulldog

Georgiabulldog

B0atguy

Appears to be just cracks in the vinyl decals from the hot Georgia sun ! 
I would guess that NuCamp can furnish some new decals for you . They do them all in house . Prob will not be cheap , and removing the existing "cracked" decals will NOT be easy ! 
Good luck , looks like a nice Avia except for the decals. 

Georgiabulldog

Thanks so much for responding. I wasn’t really sure if this was the correct site to ask this. If you know any other issues to look for or advice it is appreciated. This is a tough decision. Thanks again, Jay 

qhumberd

Hi @Georgiabulldog and welcome to the forum. We don't get a lot of Avia posts but if you type Avia into the search bar a few older links are there that might help you with any concerns about systems etc as you check out this trailer. In general, I would say that you need to be handy and self sufficient or have a really good RV tech person or dealer you trust to fully inspect any used trailer. Time and exposure as noted by the cracks are not a trailer's friend.

qhumberd

I was checking the members on the forum  who had the Avia and it seems no recent activity from any. There is a Facebook group with limited traffic

https://www.facebook.com/groups/528150068036434

pthomas745

I'm not sure I'm buying the idea this is a "sticker/decal".  Add this to the list of "things dealers say".  

Be very very careful here.

The Tabs have basic composite sides which have a thin layer of fiberglass over it, called "Azdel".  The brochure below describes the sides of the Avia is Azdel covered with "Lamilux4000 Fiberglass Skin".  The skin apparently gives an aluminum type "shine" to the exterior.   The lines in your photo could be cracks in the "Lamilux" layer.  I can not find any photos of Avia's with any variations in the basic "decals".

The brochure below describes is a "Lamilux4000" outer skin over Azdel in the "Exterior" section.

https://nucamprv.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Spec-Sheet-AVIA-2020-3.pdf

This could just be cracked fiberglass, or, the cracks could have been caused by some sort of "bump" that caused the cracks.

Here is a search that describes "Lamilux".

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Lamilux4000+exterior&udm=14

This link describes the Lamilux warranty (which is only 2 years) but it does say on the last page that the material can "accept automotive paint", whatever that means.  

https://forestriverinc.com/files/Component-Manuals/Care - Maintenance/Lamilux - Fiberglass Care & Maintenance.pdf

There are many former boat owners in this group who have discussed basic fiberglass repair, but I don't think there is much on this sort of "cracking".

B0atguy

pthomas745 said:

I'm not sure I'm buying the idea this is a "sticker/decal".  Add this to the list of "things dealers say".  

Be very very careful here.

The Tabs have basic composite sides which have a thin layer of fiberglass over it, called "Azdel".  The brochure below describes the sides of the Avia is Azdel covered with "Lamilux4000 Fiberglass Skin".  The skin apparently gives an aluminum type "shine" to the exterior.   The lines in your photo could be cracks in the "Lamilux" layer.  I can not find any photos of Avia's with any variations in the basic "decals".

The brochure below describes is a "Lamilux4000" outer skin over Azdel in the "Exterior" section.

https://nucamprv.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Spec-Sheet-AVIA-2020-3.pdf

This could just be cracked fiberglass, or, the cracks could have been caused by some sort of "bump" that caused the cracks.

Here is a search that describes "Lamilux".

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Lamilux4000+exterior&udm=14

This link describes the Lamilux warranty (which is only 2 years) but it does say on the last page that the material can "accept automotive paint", whatever that means.  

https://forestriverinc.com/files/Component-Manuals/Care - Maintenance/Lamilux - Fiberglass Care & Maintenance.pdf

There are many former boat owners in this group who have discussed basic fiberglass repair, but I don't think there is much on this sort of "cracking".

I am fairly certain that those are cracks in the decals , exactly like the dealer is stating . Its characteristic decal cracking on boats and RV's . The cracking is on the sidewall decals and the door decals on the same side . Fiberglass cracking is not going to radiate into separate door area . I highly doubt that what we are seeing here are fiberglass "stress" cracks or impact damage on this scale. The unique random cracking structure is a tell tale sign of decal cracking . 
I am in the boat business (40+ years) and see this all the time . Its fairly common . Predominantly in boats that are sitting for extended periods of time in the sun . Usually one side is worse than the other , due to the boat being stationary on the "hot" side for a long time . Decals get hot, they shrink and crack . Quite difficult to remove as well , since they get "baked" on . Happens a lot on RV's as well .

Lamilux is just what they are calling the fiberglass/gelcoat exterior skin panel that is over the Azdel panel on the outside surface . Its just more higher end , refined , and visually appealing than the fiberglass/gelcoat exterior skin panel that they are using on the T@B models . If you look close on most T@Bs, you can visually see the "strands" of fiberglass showing through the gelcoat . Lamilux is just a better , more refined fiberglass product , that does not show the raw material under the gelcoat . A lot of higher end fiberglass RV's are using Lamilux . Wish they would have used Lamilux on T@B's . Not sure what they are using on the Haven ?

No Rv models have just "Azdel" on the exterior . There is always a fiberglass skin with gelcoat overtop of the Azdel.  Azdel is a just "backer" that replaces the old style lauan that has been used in the past , and maybe is still used in inexpensive RV models (thats why older RV's had delamination problems). 

Also, NuCamp has not used Azdel since 2023 . This 2020 Avia would have used Azdel as a backer though . 
NuCamp now uses NTXT , an Azdel replacement . They manufacture there own sidewalls now , and they are claiming that their Azdel replacement , NTXT is as good as or better than Azdel . Time will tell to see if it holds up as well as Azdel .  

@Georgiabulldog , inspect the unit thoroughly before handing over any money . I am fairly certian that what you are seeing is not fiberglass damage , but decal damage . 
Let us know what you find when you inspect the Avia .  Other than the exterior decal damage , it looks like a very nice unit. If its decal damage , try to get them to knock off some $$$ . Then decide if you want to tackle that job. 
If it does turn out to be some kind of strange fiberglass damage (highly doubt it) , then do not proceed with the purchase . Thats a whole other level of repairs you do not want to get into . 
Good Luck ! 

Marceline

I think that it's really critical to figure out whether what's splitting is just the vinyl sticker/wrap, or whether it's the laminate layer. If it's the former, it should peel like a sticker. If it's the latter, I would think that it would be brittle and wouldn't peel. If they really want to sell the trailer, and it's really just a degraded sticker/wrap, see if you can get them to pull up a small area so you can see if it matches the Adzel exterior wall where there was never any sticker/wrap (the white areas). If you can see anything that looks like foam (maybe test it with a pin), I'd say that it's the exterior Adzel layer that's cracked. I would say that would be a deal breaker. Even if it's just the wrap/sticker, it's not repairable and it would probably be a PITA to remove. So it's up to you whether it's priced attractively enough that you can live with it. 

pthomas745

@B0atguy thanks for responding, knew we  had fiberglass boat experts in the group!

I based my "assumption" on "that doesn't look like a decal to me" but after looking at a lot of photos of the Avia, it certainly does seem to be a decal over the fiberglass "skin".  The photos in this thread didn't show me the design of the decal very clearly.  All of the other photos I found show the same basic design on the side of the Avia.

I would think the place to examine would be the areas below the solid black line along the side of the trailer.  If the cracks are not below that line, then the decal is the obvious problem.

Marceline

B0atguy said:

No Rv models have just "Azdel" on the exterior . There is always a fiberglass skin with gelcoat overtop of the Azdel.  Azdel is a just "backer" that replaces the old style lauan that has been used in the past , and maybe is still used in inexpensive RV models (thats why older RV's had delamination problems). 

Interesting. I always thought that "Azdel" was a prefab laminate panel. Looking at the Azdel site, though, it's clear that you're correct and Azdel is just the core material. So the RV manufacturers are apparently doing the laminating themselves (or contracting it out). There's a video on this page of the laminating process.

https://azdelonboard.com/azdel-composite-applications/recreational-vehicles/

B0atguy

pthomas745 said:

@B0atguy thanks for responding, knew we  had fiberglass boat experts in the group!

I based my "assumption" on "that doesn't look like a decal to me" but after looking at a lot of photos of the Avia, it certainly does seem to be a decal over the fiberglass "skin".  The photos in this thread didn't show me the design of the decal very clearly.  All of the other photos I found show the same basic design on the side of the Avia.

I would think the place to examine would be the areas below the solid black line along the side of the trailer.  If the cracks are not below that line, then the decal is the obvious problem.

Yes, the Avia is basically a blank white canvas . Everything on the sidewall that is not white is a appliqué decal . Unfortunately , it doesn't look like its holding up very well on this one in question . Its strange , I have seen quite a few Avias and lately , they all seem to be "tired" looking, and they aren't that old yet . I actually think the Avia would look better sans decals  . Would kind of look like an Escape , Oliver , etc. It was  definitely designed and built to compete with the higher end RV's at the time . I would love one , just don't want to tow one around. We travel a lot , and its so much less stressful to tow a T@B around !  

B0atguy

Marceline said:

B0atguy said:

No Rv models have just "Azdel" on the exterior . There is always a fiberglass skin with gelcoat overtop of the Azdel.  Azdel is a just "backer" that replaces the old style lauan that has been used in the past , and maybe is still used in inexpensive RV models (thats why older RV's had delamination problems). 

Interesting. I always thought that "Azdel" was a prefab laminate panel. Looking at the Azdel site, though, it's clear that you're correct and Azdel is just the core material. So the RV manufacturers are apparently doing the laminating themselves (or contracting it out). There's a video on this page of the laminating process.

https://azdelonboard.com/azdel-composite-applications/recreational-vehicles/

Most all RV manufacturers are utilizing large "rolls" of fiberglass/gelcoat exterior "skin" . They laminate (glue) it with the Azdel panels . Then it becomes a wall panel . RV Manufacturers can "custom" order whatever spec fiberglass panel material and gelcoat color they want , basic or high end like Lamilux . NuCamp decided they would manufacture the entire sidewall in house now . Quite an impressive operation . Was able to see the whole process a few months ago. 

Here is a picture of a side wall core from a 2024 400 . You can see each layer pretty clearly. 
Gelcoat color on the fiberglass "sheet" , exterior NTXT , foam block insulation , interior NTXT (with soft touch "wallpaper" ) , and interior plywood in this application (completed wall panel would not have this plywood part). The only thing you dont see here is the aluminum "cage" framework . 

This is from my personal 2024 400 , I had to drill a 4 1/2 " hole a few days ago .

 

pthomas745

To fill in this question about what the sidewalls of the trailers are since around mid 2023: the new sides are "NTXT".  

I can't find the exact thread, but this is what one of the Admins learned about this last year:

"In late 2023, no specific date, they made the switch from Azdel to NTXT.  They did this at the same time they started laminating their own walls in house.  I know in the past the wall lamination was outsourced.  I was told that NTXT and Azdel are similar products but the NTXT is less porous and NuCamp feels the glue adheres better to it than Azdel during lamination.  So if you have an Azdel sticker on your trailer that is what you have.  If you have a new trailer built late 2023 or later with no Azdel Sticker then you will have NTXT.  Of course you can always confirm this with NuCamp by providing them with the build date of your trailer." 

This is a link to the manufacturer.

https://www.patrickind.com/ntxt/