Towing on Icy Roads...Yes or No?

Orygun

This may seem like a dumb question, but since I love to camp in winter, even in very low temps( I like to cross country ski a lot in different places), I would really like to tow my CS-S all winter long.  I wouldn't plan to tow it during a snowstorm, or if the roads were snow-packed, but would only consider it on roads that have been plowed, covered with cinder or other road treatment, but may be icy. My TV is a 2010 Nissan Frontier Pro-4X and manages very well in all kinds of conditions. I also carry chains for it in case I need them, which up to this point I have not. So, my question is, how could I expect the trailer to handle on icy roads, assuming I have good traction with the truck? Is there a possibility that this light weight trailer could slip and waggle enough to cause me to lose control of the whole package? I just got back from a trip through NM, UT, ID and CA(sans trailer) where I encountered poor road conditions due to recent snowstorms, and I saw many larger trailers and fifth wheels out there, but did not see any T@Bs. Saw one Casita, though. 

Nomad

I've avoided ice/snow but hit a slippery/sloppy mess on a backroad last summer that felt/acted just like ice (am from MN so lots of winter experience) so this may give a clue.
Road was fine and looked fine but all of a sudden I was slipping/sliding all over the place. The tail of the T@B ended up pointing north the same as the front of the Jeep - basically a jacknife. I thru the Jeep into four-wheel, hit the gas and managed to get everything straightened out and plowed thru. Gunning it on ice probably wouldn't have gotten me anything but four spinning wheels. I know one thing, you don't want to see the side of your T@B sliding sideways in your rear view mirror.

Orygun

Yikes, wasn't the answer I was hoping for, but thank you! 

Normfun

Around here (Utah) people haul snowmobile trailers in the mountains on snow and ice. I have encountered several small stretches of snowy roads while towing the T@b. You really need to act in slow motion and go slow. Any last minute changes or braking will result in a skid. Slow and steady gets you there. Heading out Thursday snow and all. Currently 14 degrees and light snow at the house. Heading south for a few days. 

Nomad

I wouldn't have any hesitation in some snow - ice, a different story.

jkjenn

PXLated said:

I wouldn't have any hesitation in some snow - ice, a different story.

I grew up driving the central NY snowmelt roads and am not bothered by snow but will avoid at all costs. Even if you can handle the majority of others can't and you will likely end up either in a wreck or spending hours on a road that has become a parking lot.

Mercator

I towed my T@B from Toronto to Key West (via NOLA) last winter. I hit the February storm that hit the mid west. Bad roads all the way to Arkansas - about 1800 km - along both snowy and icy roads.

There was never any problem with towing as the T@B followed perfectly. I drove carefully and well below the posted speed limits. The front of the trailer was cacked in about 50 lbs of ice by the time I got to warm enough weather, past Little Rock, for it to melt.

I would highly recommend mud flaps on your TV - especially the rear wheels. 

Wanderoo

If you choose to tow your T@B in snow/ice, be prepared for going uphill slowly with no traction -- carry sand or kitty litter to pack behind/under your wheels and use your good ol' yellow chocks.  I got myself out of a bad situation one time by ramming the chocks under the rear wheels and then gunning it.  Just be prepared if you choose to tow in the snow and ice.

Nomad

"the T@B followed perfectly" <- They do till they don't. All it takes is once when it doesn't and you'll hope you never see that again.

Traildale

In the flatlands of the Midwest we'd tow 4-place snowmobile trailers of up to 4500 pounds and in all kinds of ice and snow.  But the tow vehicles are typically crew cab 3/4 ton diesel pickups at twice the weight of the trailers. 
Lots of two-place trailers at 1800 to 2000 pounds are towed by half-ton pickups. Again the tow vehicles are 2+ times the weight of the trailers. 
And this is all flatland towing. 
On mountain sled trips to Colorado and Wyoming, I can't recall seeing any large trailers. The preferred method of transporting a pair of 550 lb sleds is an 8x10 flatbed installed on top of the pickup box.
While I am comfortable with bad weather winter towing in the flatlands, the last thing I would want to do is tow a trailer down a mountain on ice and snow. 

Allie

Why chance an accident?  A vehicle on ice is hard enough to control the direction, towing a trailer that will more than likely be going in the opposite direction is not going to be controlled by the tow vehicle in an emergency.

ChanW

The 'interesting' thing about winter snow/ice driving is the fact that no one is "under control", (except those that are parked), and we still do it!

I've towed the Tab on packed snow and ice, and a bit of prayer... I just had to hope everything kept going the direction it was supposed to go, including the other vehicles around me.

We were mostly on secondary roads. I dreaded that we wouldn't come over a rise and find a steep downhill ending with a stop sign.

We survived unscathed. It took much longer than dry roads would have, and we were exhausted after the tension of it.  I'm a winter driver (Buffalo NY) so it's pretty normal for me. Perhaps more practice is all I need... B-)

I wonder if studded tires for the Tab would be sensible for that type of driving.

jkjenn

ChanW said:

The 'interesting' thing about winter snow/ice driving is the fact that no one is "under control", (except those that are parked), and we still do it!

I've towed the Tab on packed snow and ice, and a bit of prayer... I just had to hope everything kept going the direction it was supposed to go, including the other vehicles around me.

We were mostly on secondary roads. I dreaded that we wouldn't come over a rise and find a steep downhill ending with a stop sign.

We survived unscathed. It took much longer than dry roads would have, and we were exhausted after the tension of it.  I'm a winter driver (Buffalo NY) so it's pretty normal for me. Perhaps more practice is all I need... B-)

I wonder if studded tires for the Tab would be sensible for that type of driving.

We always through a sand bag in the rear of light vehicles in the winter. I wonder if packing the rear of the T@b with heavier stuff and weighting it would help?

Verna

jkjenn said:

We always through a sand bag in the rear of light vehicles in the winter. I wonder if packing the rear of the T@b with heavier stuff and weighting it would help?

I keep looking at that hard-to-get to storage behind the Alde, thinking that would be a good place for my sockets and wrenches, but I'm afraid of the plastic boxes coming open and it taking me a long, long time to pick them up. 

I've decided to put my staple type food under the bed for more weight than my out-of-season clothes would weigh.  I'll have it all figured out by the time I get back in April

ChanW

Yeah Verna, I've stored my tools under there, for a while, until the time I needed them and had to unmake the bed in order to get a ratchet wrench. Argh...   (I've got to get that cargo door installed!)

Verna

ChanW said:

Yeah Verna, I've stored my tools under there, for a while, until the time I needed them and had to unmake the bed in order to get a ratchet wrench. Argh...   (I've got to get that cargo door installed!)

Brilliant idea!  As long as that's not where the Alde exhaust goes outside. I would need to box-in the Alde pipes going toward the rear, but that's easy enough. It would be a great place for those tools.

ChanW

I've been considering the passenger side for the cargo door. The cargo door is somewhat inexpensive, direct from the cargo door factory, but the shipping cost stopped me (for now). 

I'll dig up the info...

Verna

Chan, you can call Elsie at Pleasant Valley next week. They have at least one size and their shipping is what it costs them. I don't know how their prices compare, but I like their service

Nomad

I keep my tools in the TV - Hate digging for that kind of thing when I need it now. I keep things I rarely, rarely will need behind the Alde - That's the hardest place to get to.

jkjenn

ChanW said:

I've been considering the passenger side for the cargo door. The cargo door is somewhat inexpensive, direct from the cargo door factory, but the shipping cost stopped me (for now). 

I'll dig up the info...

IMHO, this would be an inexpensive but highly welcomed addition to new T@bs coming from the factory, I am sure. I can't think of a con for including one. Maybe some day.

I have wondered if the spare tire would fit back there. If you tied a rope around it, you could get at it easier.

irvingj

"I wonder if studded tires for the Tab would be sensible for that type of driving."  In Scandinavia, even 40+ years ago, it was a law that if studded tires were used, they had to be mounted on ALL FOUR tires; seems like folks are finally coming around to that in this country.

I'd avoid trying to tow my T@B in winter, other than on clear, dry roads, but if I were to try it I'd seriously consider studded tires for the T@B. If nothing else, they would help to prevent T@B wheel lock-up during braking. (But I'd still rather not find out!)

As Traildale pointed out, the difference in weight of the TV vs. the T@B would also definitely be something to consider. My Jetta wagon? Too much on the light side compared to the T@B; don't think I'd like to try it.

Verna

Studded snow tires are no longer legal in many states. Good idea, they work well, in my opinion. 

ChanW

Not legal... Too bad.

I suppose those "easy-on" (probably not) chains would do, in conditions that warrant them. However, the job of putting them on in the conditions that warrant them would be a pain, I'd think.

That'd keep you off the road unless absolutely necessary! Probably a good thing.

Orygun

Mercator said:

I towed my T@B from Toronto to Key West (via NOLA) last winter. I hit the February storm that hit the mid west. Bad roads all the way to Arkansas - about 1800 km - along both snowy and icy roads.

There was never any problem with towing as the T@B followed perfectly. I drove carefully and well below the posted speed limits. The front of the trailer was cacked in about 50 lbs of ice by the time I got to warm enough weather, past Little Rock, for it to melt.

I would highly recommend mud flaps on your TV - especially the rear wheels. 

Mercator

PXLated said:

"the T@B followed perfectly" <- They do till they don't. All it takes is once when it doesn't and you'll hope you never see that again.

I agree that a jackknife skid is not easy to recover.  However, the jackknife isn't caused by the trailer, but rather it is initiated by the TV skidding, caused by any number of different factors. My experience has been when towing a trailer in the winter that it won't cause problems, but can make them worse if you do start to jackknife.  Here is a good article on the difference between trailer swing/sway and jackknifing and how to avoid/recover.  Although the article is written for tractor-trailer drivers, the loading and techniques can also apply to towing a travel trailer (except we don't have Jacobs brakes LOL : ) .)

Mr_Mrs_Gnome

...or if you're braking in a turn and your trailer brakes are set too high. Got the T-Shirt. Dang deer decided to jump out. He slid on the ice too and we all survived.

Nomad

Mercator - Agree, it's the TV - In my case, if I hadn't been able to hit four-wheel and gun the TV to straighten it all out it would have been very ugly. If I'd been on ice, that probably wouldn't have worked, too far gone and in an instant.

Orygun

Thanks for all the suggestions and stories.... I think I will try my best to avoid icy roads, understandably not wanting to get into a jackknife situation!

Nomad

A horror story... http://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/2311/has-anyone-else-tipped-their-trailer-over#latest

Mercator

Please remember, when making your decision to drive or not, that the trailer DOES NOT create the problem. Ask yourself if you would drive your TV with the known, prevalent road conditions and if the answer is yes then you will likely be able to to tow your T@B without issue.  Just remember that it will take longer to stop when you are towing and adjust your driving speed and following distances accordingly.

How many times have you driven safely, but notice cars or trucks in the ditch.  The difference is that you (and everyone else who go home OK) adjusted your driving for the conditions.

However, black ice is another matter entirely as you don't have a chance to adjust your driving as the ice is hidden.  Black ice is usually forecast and shouldn't come as a surprise very often. 

Nomad

It's what you can't see that gets ya.