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What batteries to replace old ones in 2021 Tab 400

jenniferlzrjenniferlzr Member Posts: 59
in Battery/Electrical & Solar
I need help! My batteries are bulging and hot. No idea why. 2021 Tab 400. What specific AGM batteries do I need to buy? The batteries suggested in the Nucamp FB page are an inch too tall. 
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,670
    @jenniferlzr I think this is the same conversation going on over at FB.  Sorry about the "Vmax" not fitting.  My mistake for not realizing the Harris batteries in your trailer are a sort of odd size.
    There are many different 6V "golf cart" batteries, but the issue with the taller "Vmax" is the size:  225 amp hours is a big battery.
    Some of the FB comments are working around to the lithium battery setup.  They would be, just on size and weight alone, much easier to deal with.   A single lithium 200 amp hour battery would provide you with more amp hours than your dual 6V provide now.  Your solar controller can be configured to charge them.  Look at the converter and we can see what "lithium capabilities" it has. 
    Lithiums get talked about like they are nuclear brain surgery rocket science..but, the reality is they are fairly simple..with a little bit of a learning curve.  You can probably save money and time over the replacement of the AGM's.  There are many choices, and they do not have to be "expensive".  Many owners here have them, and probably millions of non rocket science brain surgeon lithium owners are out there right now..not worrying about their batteries. 
    Look over this Will Prowse battery recommendation page and see the range of batteries he recommends.  There are several price points.  Remember that one 200 ah lithium would replace your AGM battery bank.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    jenniferlzrjenniferlzr Member Posts: 59
    Thanks Paul. It's just hard figuring out what to do. I really appreciate your help. 
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,670
    Lithiums would not be a bad choice.  There are also a lot of other 6V gc type batteries that should fit.
    I wish it was easier to search for these, Amazon search is..terrible.
    Will this one fit?  Seems a different size than the ones linked in the FB thread.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    jenniferlzrjenniferlzr Member Posts: 59
    According to the specs I have, mine are 10.24 x 7.09 x 9.96
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    SonyguySonyguy Member Posts: 8
    I've got a similar  issue needing new batteries in our 2021 Tab 400.  The stock batteries are Harris HBDAGMGC6-A and have the same size specs as your Jennifer.  I contacted Harris via email on a price weeks ago and did not hear a word back!  Go figure.  The closest dealer to us will install a Battleborn lithium battery which I'd prefer because it will likely cost less in the long run, but they want $1000 for a 100 amp hour unit.  Then I've read our WFCO converter model WF-8955PEC is not lithium compatible (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), so add another few hundred there.  I am not at all skilled with this type of thing... I'm still researching options.  
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    berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,009
    @jenniferlzr and @Sonyguy if you want to stay with the 6v AGM batteries and can't sours the Harris ones take a look at these from GoPower, GP-AGM-224-6v..  Identical dimension as the Harris batteries and identical 224Ah.  Our Harris batteries are still going strong but when I need to replace them I may go with these from GoPower.  

    https://gopowersolar.com/products/6-volt-sun-cycle-agm-solar-battery/


    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,670
    edited November 2023
    @Sonyguy There are many lithium batteries that do not sell for 1000 bucks apiece and are well reviewed.  Many owners have not changed their WFCO converters because either the Victron solar controllers or any number of different smart chargers can handle the job just fine.  The WFCO can charge a lithium to about 85 percent.  I decided to just let my solar controller handle the charging, and my LiTime battery works just fine. 
    The other issue in your 400: the capacity of the dual 6v setup installed in your 400 was 225 amp hours.  You basically had "about" 135 amp hours to use in your trailer.  Were you happy with the amount of power that setup provided?  Note the 100 amp hour Battleborn would only provide "about" 90 amp hours, a large reduction over your dual 6V batteries. 
    As Bergger has shown, there are many dual 6V batteries that should fit and will work well for you.  There is an Amazon link above with more.  In my response to the original post there is a link to Will Prowse's lithium battery web page that has several batteries, well equipped with the same features as any battery on the market, in different amp hour sizes and shapes.  There are several 200 amp hour lithium batteries on that list that would come in several hundred dollars less than the 100 amp hour Battleborn.  A 200 amp hour lithium battery would provide 50 percent more amp hours than what your dual 6v provided, in an easy to carry form factor that will fit in your trailer.
    Many owners in this group have purchased various lithium batteries they found on the Prowse lists.  His YouTube channel has many reviews where he discusses the batteries, explains the features to look for, and then takes a power saw and takes the batteries apart and shows what you are actually buying.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    SonyguySonyguy Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for the helpful replies pthomas745 and bergger.  I am now partial to the LiTime 12V 230Ah battery, only $639 from the LiTime website, and it should fit in the same space as the 2 9v did.  I like the fact that it should last much longer, same or better actual capacity, and I won't have to worry about it over the winter (I don't have easy access to the 400 to check battery or charge it). But I'm still concerned about the WFCO converter WF-8955-PEC (will it need to be replaced?) and also the stock inverter in my 2021 400 (will it work as is?).  Has anyone seen a Youtube video w the A-Z installation process?  I will read more on Prowse opinions.
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    rh5555rh5555 Member Posts: 488
    edited November 2023
    @Sonyguy: Your existing WFCO converter will kind-sorta charge your new lithium batteries.  The batteries won't be charged to 100%, but if you have solar (and sunshine!) then you can top off the batteries that way.
    WFCO does make a replacement converter for Lithium, but it seems to get a bad rap on this forum.  Progressive Dynamics make a replacement PD4655LIV which seems to do better.  But, with the PD4655LIV, you may run into a problem with the 40 Amp breaker that is in the line between the batteries and the converter tripping.  See this related post.
    Roger and Sue Hill | 2020 T@B400 Boondock (Cryst@bel) | 2022 Land Rover Defender 110 - P400 | San Juan Island, WA
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    runlinerunline Member Posts: 32
    @jenniferlzr I also have a 2021 Tab 400 and had the exact same problem you described. My batteries were bulging and no longer worked. I originally contacted Harris to inquire about how much 2 new batteries would cost and while it took a while for them to respond they finally did and quoted me: (2) HBDAGMGC6-A  $495.84 (ea). I contemplated just buying those and calling it a day, but decided to take this opportunity (I highly recommend you do the same) to upgrade to lithium. I ended up buying 2 Battleborn GC2 100 ah batteries that fit the same space as the Harris batteries. I was lucky enough to find them on Amazon Prime Day Sale for $697 ea. (normally ~$940 or so ea) As others have mentioned there are other options that are cheaper although I had no luck finding anything that would fit the same space without having to do retrofit. LiTime 100ah batteries have been highly reviewed and are much cheaper ~ $330 or so ea. but they did not fit the existing space. I'm sure there are other cheaper lithium batteries but hard to find ones that are drop in replacements to the original Harris batteries. There are many very smart people who have helped me during this process on this forum. If you end up going the lithium upgrade option you will need to upgrade your WFCO converter to the Progressive Dynamics model that @rh5555 mentioned above to get the full benefit of the lithium charging. This is what I did. Good luck with your project!

    SF Bay Area, CA, 2021 T@B 400 BD
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    rh5555rh5555 Member Posts: 488
    The LiTime 230Ah lithium battery will fit in your existing space and is currently on sale for $640.
    Roger and Sue Hill | 2020 T@B400 Boondock (Cryst@bel) | 2022 Land Rover Defender 110 - P400 | San Juan Island, WA
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    manyman297manyman297 Member Posts: 1,191
    I keep hearing about the Harris batteries bulging…might be anecdotal but it seems like it’s happening mostly on the 2021 builds. I need to check on mine. This is making me paranoid.
    2021 400 BD
    2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 
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    rh5555rh5555 Member Posts: 488
    One of my Harris batteries failed, but without any bulging.  I have one good one, if anyone wants it!
    Roger and Sue Hill | 2020 T@B400 Boondock (Cryst@bel) | 2022 Land Rover Defender 110 - P400 | San Juan Island, WA
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    berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,009
    @manyman297 I just checked the Harris batteries we have on our 2021 400 and they look just fine and are still running strong. 
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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    d_vd_v Member Posts: 35
    I changed my WFCO for the 8955LIS that has the switch and I changed the two Harris for two LITime minis. The 8955LIS charges the batteries to full. I got lucky and found the WFCO on ebay for $50 and the LiTimes are $250 on Amazon. I also added a Victron BMV712, but I think I would get the smart shunt (cheaper) if I did that again. The minis don’t have low temp shut off but I don’t think they will be in a below freezing and in a charging condition wile I own the trailer.
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    manyman297manyman297 Member Posts: 1,191
    @bergger Did the same check last night and they look fine. I do think I'm having trouble with them discharging faster than normal but I may just upgrade to lithium as that was the original plan anyway. Just glad to know they aren't ready to explode. 
    2021 400 BD
    2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 
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    SonyguySonyguy Member Posts: 8
    d_v - how difficult is it to change out the old 8955 to the new one (for someone with very limited skills)?  
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    d_vd_v Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2023
    Sonyguy said:
    d_v - how difficult is it to change out the old 8955 to the new one (for someone with very limited skills)?  
    You are just replacing like for like so in that respect not too bad, but there is a lot of it and it’s cramped and you need to know how to use a multi meter so you know what is off. I watched this first https://youtu.be/WmdIfvGahWI?si=OHHXYmdh6gQTzUFb  . Also, the refrigerator fuse may be on a 20a slot and it needs to be on the 30a. I don’t think I had moved it yet in this picture. Every wire on the the circuit board is moved from old board to new and a few of the AC power supply wires are swapped. Before and after.  Also, this is the one with the switch, I read a lot of threads with problems using the newer autodetect (AD) one.  

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    MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,596
    @jenniferlzr ;  Have you resolved your issue(s) ?

    = = =

    I just came across your YouTube video on this issue.
            They Are Toast

    As noted in the video comments:
     -=- If possible confirm the WFCO Power Center and your Solar Controller (if installed are functioning correctly).

    As for the Li-ion or wet-cell AGM battery replacement discussions:
     -=- Try to do a return-on-investment [ROI] calculation of your usage . . .
             If you do days and days of boondocking Li-ion might be worthwhile.
             However, if most of your stops/stays are at locations with Electric Service
             then another set of wet-cell AGM batteries will work fine and be less expensive.
    -=-   Any good quality battery store can provide AGM's in the case size you need.

    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  51   Nights:  322  Towing Miles 41,200+
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    d_vd_v Member Posts: 35
    @jenniferlzr,

    I just saw you video and you mentioned Princess Craft. I still have my original AGM batteries. I am in San Antonio. The only reason I swapped mine to Lithium was to reduce the weight of the trailer. I have them listed in the for sale.
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    runlinerunline Member Posts: 32
    edited November 2023
    d_v said:
    Sonyguy said:
    d_v - how difficult is it to change out the old 8955 to the new one (for someone with very limited skills)?  
    You are just replacing like for like so in that respect not too bad, but there is a lot of it and it’s cramped and you need to know how to use a multi meter so you know what is off. I watched this first https://youtu.be/WmdIfvGahWI?si=OHHXYmdh6gQTzUFb  . Also, the refrigerator fuse may be on a 20a slot and it needs to be on the 30a. I don’t think I had moved it yet in this picture. Every wire on the the circuit board is moved from old board to new and a few of the AC power supply wires are swapped. Before and after.  Also, this is the one with the switch, I read a lot of threads with problems using the newer autodetect (AD) one.  


    Hi @d_v when swapping to the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger , what is the reason to swap to the new circuit board? I swapped my WFCO to the PD unit when upgrading to lithium but kept the original circuit board in place. Just curious if that was a bad idea or not.
    SF Bay Area, CA, 2021 T@B 400 BD
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