New guy wants to lower a Boondock

TomB985 · September 21

Good evening, everyone!

I bought a lightly used ‘23 T@b 400 on Tuesday and I’ve been thrilled with it. I came from a Flagstaff A-frame trailer that I bought for towing efficiency with my EV pickup, an F150 Lightning. The Flagstaff was good for efficiency, but it wasn’t holding up to the 12,000 miles I pulled over the last year, and I was seeing signs that I needed something more robust. The T@b build quality is in another world from Forest River, and I’m really enjoying it.

The downside is efficiency. I settled on Nucamp because I was looking for something that could efficiently slide through the wind. The only models I could find had the Boondock package and its 3” lift, and I’ve been disappointed with the efficiency. I’m consuming 30% more power than I was, which makes it difficult to make it more than 140 miles between charge stops. I’m planning to replace the aggressive 235/75R15 tires with the standard 205s when I get home, but that’s only going to get me an inch lower. What’s the difference in suspension between the Boondock and standard package? Is there a way to remove the lift and bring it down to regular height?

Thanks, everyone!

manyman297 · September 21

Have you considered smaller tires on the trailer? Probably won’t lower it much though.

The misconception with the teardrop shape (especially the taller 400) is that it’s aerodynamically friendly. Somebody on here did some modeling and found that it really isn’t…especially when paired with a truck. There tends to be some turbulence between the bed of the truck and the tall front wall of the trailer. It acts like a huge wall.

The addition of a camper shell on the truck seems to give things a more slippery profile.

Horigan · September 21

To lower the trailer further, you'll need a non-Boondock torsion spring axle from NuCamp, or trade with someone who wants a Boondock axle. I doubt though that it would provide any measurable improvement in fuel economy. These trailers are pretty big sails to be dragging around.

TomB985 · September 22

Thanks, guys!

I mentioned tires in my initial post; the base shoes are almost 2” shorter than the rubbers on the Boondock. I’ll probably replace them in the springtime.

I asked about the axle because some manufacturers use lift brackets that bolt to the bottom of the frame. I almost bought an Airstream Basecamp with that setup because it would be easy to remove the blocks. It’s almost impossible to find the Basecamp without the X package, much like every Tab 400 I found had the Boondock package. It’s apparently not as easy to lower this one.

I appreciate the feedback, and look forward to getting to know the community on here. Other than towing efficiency, I’ve been really impressed so far!

subkron · September 22

Someone (I think on this forum) also mentioned that kayak/canoe on cab helped efficiency. Maybe pu a cheap kayak and roof rack, seems silly but in the long run...

rh5555 · September 22

You have to change out the entire axle to lower the axle arms. Perhaps you could team up with a non-boondock owner who wants the extra lift and do a swap. You might also consider a topper for your pickup bed to cut down on turbulence. Also note that your spare tire is probably smaller than those installed on your wheels.

TomB985 · September 22

rh5555 said:

You have to change out the entire axle to lower the axle arms. Perhaps you could team up with a non-boondock owner who wants the extra lift and do a swap. You might also consider a topper for your pickup bed to cut down on turbulence. Also note that your spare tire is probably smaller than those installed on your wheels.

Yup, the spare is the smaller size that comes on the regular model. It matches the tires on my utility trailer, so I could easily swap them to try it out.

Gas is cheap, so I’m probably using my old Expedition to pull to Texas next month. That’s got a similar rear profile to my truck with a topper, so I’m curious if I lose 40% of my unloaded fuel economy. If less, it might be worth buying at a topper. I came really close last spring, but opted for a Retrax tonneau cover instead.

RCB · September 27

I wonder if a deflector mounted to the roof at say 45 degrees of an suv or pickup might improve the aerodynamics of the rig.

HappyWanderer · September 28

Switching to the 205s might not lower your trailer much, but, if they are street tires instead of off-road tires they will also likely have less rolling resistance which should help with mileage. Just a thought.

Marceline · September 28

RCB said:

I wonder if a deflector mounted to the roof at say 45 degrees of an suv or pickup might improve the aerodynamics of the rig.

Or maybe a cap on the truck bed.

TomB985 · September 29

Marceline said:

RCB said:

I wonder if a deflector mounted to the roof at say 45 degrees of an suv or pickup might improve the aerodynamics of the rig.

Or maybe a cap on the truck bed.

That’s what I’m considering. I came close last spring, but I’m thinking harder about it now.

Mickerly · September 30

I tried the deflector. The trailer tongue is too long. The air hits the deflector, circles around and hits the trailer. The key is rounding the front edges of the trailer and covering up the undercut, lower front.

Switching to the standard axle lowers 2in.

Maxcamp · October 5

FYI contractor cap on my Tacoma is a 1.5 to 3 mpg penalty based on past 30 years experiences. Can't say how it impacts towing.

Droid · October 6

I am a retired designer who worked for General Motors for over 30 years. I remember a discussion with the fuel efficiency engineers about what matters most with fuel economy. The engineers answer was area going through the wind. So with that in mind, the lower the trailer the better the fuel economy should be, that is with the same conditions like wind, speed, hills etc. I think it definitely will help to lower the trailer, but how much it helps is hard to quantify.

The other discussion that caught my attention is having anything strapped to the top of the tow vehicle will hurt mileage, basically any larger area you push thru the wind while driving will diminish mileage. I used to have kayaks on top and when not tow vehicle and noticed the mileage was worse.

I think it is really cool you’re towing with an EV ! I would like to hear more about that experience.

Bill&Suze · October 7

Hi @Droid, there are a few other EV owners on the forum, two Rivian guys have mentioned pulling T@B 400s if I recall correctly. My wife and I also tow with an EV, a Kia EV9. EV towing is in its infancy at this point, due to the lack of comprehensive charging infrastructure which makes it limiting in where one can travel, but it is doable. The other factor is range reduction which is what @TomB985 is trying to address. Better range could be had if the 400 weren't as heavy as it is and if it were more aerodynamic but the trade off is its comfort and amenities. An Ev's incredible torque makes towing the 400 seem effortless but the tradeoff is loss of efficiency. We've accepted the fact that we have to charge every 100-110 miles or so but my feeling is that it is worth not having to burn dinosaur juice in order to go camping in beautiful spots.

Cracker · October 9

The shape of the roof of our 400's is really that of a big airfoil. I wonder if the drag that airfoil creates could somehow be obliterated with some simple spoilers that would create turbulance rather than drag. Hopefully we have some aeronautical engineers in the group that can address that possibility.

TomB985 · October 9

Droid said:

I am a retired designer who worked for General Motors for over 30 years. I remember a discussion with the fuel efficiency engineers about what matters most with fuel economy. The engineers answer was area going through the wind. So with that in mind, the lower the trailer the better the fuel economy should be, that is with the same conditions like wind, speed, hills etc. I think it definitely will help to lower the trailer, but how much it helps is hard to quantify.
The other discussion that caught my attention is having anything strapped to the top of the tow vehicle will hurt mileage, basically any larger area you push thru the wind while driving will diminish mileage. I used to have kayaks on top and when not tow vehicle and noticed the mileage was worse.
I think it is really cool you’re towing with an EV ! I would like to hear more about that experience.

Thanks for the input. I was expecting the shape to have a lower coefficient of drag than the usual box, but apparently not enough to mitigate the added frontal area compared to my A-Frame.

This is my fourth EV since 2019, but the first one I’ve had with decent towing capacity. I’ve pulled nearly 15,000 miles with it so far, and it’s a much more pleasant towing experience in every way except range and charging. The efficiency loss with a trailer is similar to an ICE truck, but you’re starting out with less to work with.

My truck is rated for 320 miles of range, which is closer to 250-260 miles in the real world. That gets cut to about 170 miles at 60 MPH with the folded A-frame, and about 140 with the T@B 400. That’s a similar drop to my ‘04 Expedition, which is down to 10-11 MPG instead of the 16-17 I’d normally get. Charging infrastructure is getting better every day, and my last trip to the west coast was the least-stressful I’ve had because there were Superchargers every 100-120 miles. I averaged 30-45 minutes for each charge stop, so I have to plan for fewer miles in a given day. The breaks are nice, though.

There’s no comparison with the towing experience, though. My Lightning has 580 HP, which is good to accelerate to 60 MPH in about 4 seconds unloaded. It’ll accelerate faster with the trailer than my old Expedition can empty, and it does it with out any hesitation, downshifting, or noise.

My favorite part is being able to power the camper with the truck’s in-bed power outlets instead of running a generator. It can power the camper all night long and lose 7-10% of the battery.

I left Monday on a trip to the Gulf coast and New England with my Expedition, and it’s nowhere near as nice of a driving experience. It’s nice to not have to manage charge stops and short range, though

.

CatDaddy · October 21

I'm coming to this discussion late, but I have been wondering if tires with less rolling resistance wouldn't help just as much as lowering the trailer. The 2022 TAB 320S Boondock I'm in the process of buying has fairly aggressive off-road tires (Goodyear Wranglers) that are probably not great for mileage.

Have you thought about just lower rolling resistant tires? I'm been doing some research on the options, but I haven't found anything yet. The Hankook Kinergy PT H737 tires are the best option I've found so far, but I'm still looking.

Have you considered a fairing on your truck? There appear to be a few manufacturers that make them. If a kayak on a roof rack helps, as others have stated, then a real fairing would probably be even better.

I'm planning to tow my 320S Boondock with a VW ID.4 AWD so this topic is of interest to me.

CatDaddy · October 21

Other tire options: Hankook Dynapro HT RH12 and Yokohama Geolandar H/T G056

Cracker · October 25

I'm switching over to Goodyear 225 75 R15 tires tomorrow for my 2021 T@B boondock. The trailer sat too long and the OEM "rugged-appearing" tires became distorted and won't balance.

Cracker · October 25

I should have said that they are ST "Endurance tires. I've had real good luck with that tire in the past.

d_v · October 26

I think these are as small (low) as you can go. Lowered 400 about an inch. I think our max range with the Lightning ER is around 145 miles going low 50mi/hr with no wind.

Tires are ST205/75/14 Goodyear endurance, load D.

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