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Trying to find the truth on charging a TAB360 on generator or shorepower

cschaepecschaepe Member Posts: 14
in Battery/Electrical & Solar
I have my Tab360 hooked to a generator trying to fill a lithium 460Ah Epoch battery.  When it starts charging with either a 30amp or 15amp hookup the battery will have a high reading to start.  This indicates it is getting a good Amp/Voltage from the generator.  Within a few minutes it has stepped down from 20 amps to 3-4amps .  The dealer is trying to say this is normal but I am not buying it.  He is saying the converter is not a battery charger and will give minimal voltage around 12v.  But if that were true why does my battery and shunt show it starting at 20amps and high voltage and then stepping down wouldn't it always be low.

While I can buy that a true battery charger do I really need one to charge at any acceptable rate.

If I do need one can I permanently mount one so I don't have to dig open the housing to get to the battery
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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,796
    The WFCO "AD" model Power Centers are known to poorly detect Li-Ion Batteries and require the battery to be at near 0% SOC for the battery type detect.  If you don't have the WFCO Owners manual get one from their web-site for your WFCO Model family.

    The WFCO Power Center does have a Battery Charger feature/function.  Read the operational section of the manual for a better overview of how the WFCO works.

    For now, here is the Manual section on how to read the LEDs to get an idea of which operational state your Power Center is in . . .

    The LEDs are not super easy to see.  They are located at the bottom end of the 12VDC Fuse Panel and to the panel's left side, somewhat blocked by the metal face plate.  (The LEDs are on the Convertor board not the fuse panel itself)

    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  56   Nights:  379  Towing Miles 47,220
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  • Grumpy_GGrumpy_G Member Posts: 613
    Obviously the dealer is trying to snow you, the WFCO converter includes a battery charging function, albeit not a reliable one as @MuttonChops explained.  You didn't mention the state of charge of the battery, possibly the BMS is limiting the charge current if the battery is almost fully charged. However more likely is that the converter/charger is dropping down from bulk charge (14.4V) to 13.6V or less because it deems the battery charged enough. This a frequent problem with chargers that try to be smart and apply some sort of charging algorithm. LiFePo batteries just need a constant charging voltage of 14.2-14.6V and the internal BMS takes care of proper charging. 

    The easy solution is to get a dedicated LiFePo charger which is basically just a constant voltage power supply. 
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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,229
    edited July 23
     What does your Victron say is the state of charge of your battery?  Or, what does your multimeter or another battery measuring device say about the state of charge?
    If a battery, of any type, is close to having a full charge, or reasonably close to a full charge, the charging voltage will begin to taper off.  Batteries all have "internal resistance".  The battery simply cannot take "30 amps" constantly until the battery is magically full.  The voltage will taper off to safely charge the battery, preventing it from overheating.
    So: what is the "state of charge" of your battery, with no charging coming in, and the battery switch off?
    Your battery may not need as much charging as you might think, and that is the reason you aren't seeing "30 amps" or whatever you might be looking for.
    Show us your Victron status, history, and setup screens.  They can tell you what is going on with your battery and your charging status.

    PS: Welcome to the hilarious things that dealers say club!

    PSS: your properly configured solar panel setup is an excellent battery charging device if your trailer is in the sun. "Properly configured" is important, since we have seen many many new trailers with the Victron solar controller not properly set up to charge a lithium battery.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • Yoshi_TABYoshi_TAB Member Posts: 513
    edited July 23
    Hi, Re: If I do need one can I permanently mount one so I don't have to dig open the housing to get to the battery

    Yes, a charger is fairly easy to hook up.  The AC side is connected to 110V and the DC side  is  connected to a bus bar (connected to battery)  for the 12V pos. and neg.  Many are bluetooth  controlled so you can turn them ON/OFF via an app.  You can have multiple chargers so there is no need to disable or turn off the WFCO charger, but that is also easy  to do by disconnecting  the wires in the WFCO for the charger.  You can hide the charger behind anything so it's out of view.  I installed a new 110V outlet near the battery for the charger AC plug.  You could also put in a new AC breaker in your WFCO so it's on a dedicated circuit and turn it OFF/On via the breaker. 
    2025 360 CS 
    2021 TAB 320 BD (w/new owner having fun)
    2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee
    Southern Maryland
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  • cschaepecschaepe Member Posts: 14
    The Battery was at 50% (230ah of 460ah) direct from epoch internal bluetooth so it was still in bulk charge as the Victron also reported.  
    I will check the state LEDs as confirmed above.  I feel that this will indicate it is not fast charging.  I know when I first did this I was getting constant 20ah while in bulk.  It seems that this has changed.

    Thanks All
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  • cschaepecschaepe Member Posts: 14
    edited July 28
    MuttonChops said:
    The WFCO "AD" model Power Centers are known to poorly detect Li-Ion Batteries and require the battery to be at near 0% SOC for the battery type detect.  If you don't have the WFCO Owners manual get one from their web-site for your WFCO Model family.

    The WFCO Power Center does have a Battery Charger feature/function.  Read the operational section of the manual for a better overview of how the WFCO works.

    For now, here is the Manual section on how to read the LEDs to get an idea of which operational state your Power Center is in . . .

    The LEDs are not super easy to see.  They are located at the bottom end of the 12VDC Fuse Panel and to the panel's left side, somewhat blocked by the metal face plate.  (The LEDs are on the Convertor board not the fuse panel itself)

    So many thanks for this as it indicates the WFCO is configured wrong.  I have the Green light steady indicating lead-acid (I have 460Ah lithium originally BB 100Ah lithium).
    The red light comes on blinking for maybe a minute then goes out.  It will steadily move down the charging amps until it reaches 2-3 amps.

    So reading up on it AD stands for AutoDetect which I take to mean it is supposed to figure out what type of battery and that there are no switches for me.  That is unfortunate and means another trip to the dealer assuming I can convince him it is not Auto Dectecting
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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,796
    cschaepe said:
    . . .  many thanks for this as it indicates the WFCO is configured wrong. [ :) ]
    . . . AD stands for AutoDetect which I take to mean it is supposed to figure out what type of battery
     . . . means another trip to the dealer assuming I can convince him it is not Auto Dectecting

    If it was my rig - - -
    I'd contact WFCO Directly for the PCB Jumper that forces the "AD" into Li-Ion mode
    ( if enough folks do so maybe they will add a switch )

    It is also doable to just install a pull-down resistor yourself if you have basic electronics soldering skills.  There are several threads on this forum discussing how the jumper works and it's location on the PCB.
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  56   Nights:  379  Towing Miles 47,220
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  • cschaepecschaepe Member Posts: 14
    Thanks I will be calling them tomorrow.  I will search out those threads and if I can get to the resistor might try it.  It isn't critical as I can charge with solar and a Victron controller still if you call it "AutoDetect" it should be 100% reliable or at least have an override. Simply changing from one LI battery brand to another shouldn't render it unusable.
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