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Brake controller install confusion

geekmamageekmama Member Posts: 107
in Trailer & Towing
I just bought a Toyota RAV4 Adventure. It has a hitch and a 7-pin adapter. I bought the wiring harness for a Toyota for my Tekonsha Prodigy that I used in my last tow vehicle. When I couldn't find the connector under the dash I brought it to a mechanic for them to do the wiring for the brake controller. They said they would have to rewire the whole 7-pin adapter since they don't know what the people who installed it wired it to. I called a Toyota dealer and they said it would cost $940 to install a brake controller.

Am I doing something wrong? I have the brake controller. I normally just plug it in under the dash. Am I using the wrong words? I don't need an actual brake controller installed I just need the wiring part to connect my external brake controller. Is there a better way to convey this to the mechanic? Does anyone have any idea what's going on and why this is so difficult?
Aileen, Muggles & Scout @ 2018 T@b CS-S @ 2018 RAV4 Adventure @ Massachusetts
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  • trimtabtrimtab Member Posts: 237
    From what you said, it sounds like the 7 pin trailer socket was installed on your current Tow Vehicle.  If that is so, the sheath covered wiring would also be there and going forward and up to under your dash, with a connector that would attach to your brake controller. Maybe I am missing something?
    2020 320-S boondock, solar, 2020 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E
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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,990
     If it came with a hitch and 7 pin, it should have the wiring installed for the brake controller, and those wires probably are inside.
    What kind of "mechanic?"  The dealer sounds a bit out of it, too. And, give them both a little slack, they probably don't know as much as they should about towing and "brake controllers."
    Find an RV place, or a place that services utility trailers.  Someone whose job is setting people up to tow things.  They will get you in the proper direction.
    You could also test the 7 pin adapter to see that it is hooked up correctly.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • geekmamageekmama Member Posts: 107
    I thought that the 7-pin adapter had most of what is needed to connect the brake controller, but I'm not an expert in automotive wiring so I'm trying to deal with this without knowing everything. It finally occurred to me to contact Uhaul which I'll do tomorrow. If they can't help I'll talk to the RV place that has done service for me before. I hadn't thought of that, thanks.
    Aileen, Muggles & Scout @ 2018 T@b CS-S @ 2018 RAV4 Adventure @ Massachusetts
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  • XenanMeXenanMe Member Posts: 79
    I think the mechanics are misunderstanding what you are wanting to do.  If you already have the 7 Pin connector and the Toyota tow package then the wiring should be there.  In the new Toyota’s the wiring connector is in the left side panel by your brake pedal.  If you remove that panel you should be able to find it at the far end of the compartment (toward the engine).  Sometimes you can find it without removing the panel by reaching through with your hand and pulling the wiring block toward you.  Look for YouTube videos for 4Runner or Tacoma brake controller installs because it should be in the same location on your RAV.  Hope this helps.  It is tricky to find but not $940 tricky.
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  • geekmamageekmama Member Posts: 107
    I don't think it has the tow package. The tow hitch and 7-pin adapter were aftermarket. I have hooked brake controllers up through that panel many times so I knew what I was looking for and am confident the plug part isn't there but assumed that it was a simple matter of splicing the connector onto the right wires that are in that panel.
    Aileen, Muggles & Scout @ 2018 T@b CS-S @ 2018 RAV4 Adventure @ Massachusetts
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  • tabiphiletabiphile Member Posts: 442
    XenanMe said:
    I think the mechanics are misunderstanding what you are wanting to do.  If you already have the 7 Pin connector and the Toyota tow package then the wiring should be there.  In the new Toyota’s the wiring connector is in the left side panel by your brake pedal.  If you remove that panel you should be able to find it at the far end of the compartment (toward the engine).  Sometimes you can find it without removing the panel by reaching through with your hand and pulling the wiring block toward you.  Look for YouTube videos for 4Runner or Tacoma brake controller installs because it should be in the same location on your RAV.  Hope this helps.  It is tricky to find but not $940 tricky.
    Yes! You are looking for the connector that the controller plugs into. If the vehicle came with the tow kit then it has this connector tucked way up under the dash in the main wire loom. It will be under the panel, up and left of the steering wheel in a rats nest of wires. It can be a real challenge to find and especially if you don't know what it looks like. Often they are tied back and taped over making then even harder to find. A dealer tech should locate it and pull it down for you for free. It's part of the vehicle you purchased. They need to make it accessible for you to use. Your controller adapter wire will plug into that connector and the wire into the back of the controller.
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  • geekmamageekmama Member Posts: 107
    The vehicle doesn't have a tow package so that's what the problem is. I'm assuming that vehicles can be made tow-ready after the fact. I can't be the only person doing this. I definitely know what the cable would look like under the left part of the dash. I've connected maybe 3 or 4 brake controllers on similar cars. I followed all wires wearing a headlamp. It's not there. I basically just need someone to put it there. 
    Aileen, Muggles & Scout @ 2018 T@b CS-S @ 2018 RAV4 Adventure @ Massachusetts
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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,727
    geekmama said:
    I don't think it has the tow package.
    The tow hitch and 7-pin adapter were aftermarket.
    I have hooked brake controllers up through that panel many times so I knew what I was looking for and am confident the plug part isn't there
    Disclaimer:  Not a RAV4 Owner . . . been reading Toyota 2018 RAV4 information on web

    Your Adventure model came from factory with a Tow Prep Package not a Towing Package.
    Tow Prep Package:
    + upgraded radiator,
    + additional engine oil cooler
    + transmission fluid cooler
    Tow Prep Package does not Include the receiver or trailer wiring.

    As far I can tell from web-research the RAV4 does not have the Trailer Brake Controller connector/harness you hoped to find. You need to direct wire into vehicle if you are going to use your older wired Brake Controller.

    For the aftermarket 7-pin trailer connector suggest you confirm the wiring with extra focus on the +12VDC from battery . . . it may or may not be connected. With +12VDC at 7-pin then you should consider buying a newer Wireless Brake Controller and eliminate having to hard wire in your old controller.

    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  54   Nights:  341  Towing Miles 43,780
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  • geekmamageekmama Member Posts: 107
    I would definitely be willing to buy a different brake controller. I have the Tekonsha Prodigy 2 or 3 I think.
    Aileen, Muggles & Scout @ 2018 T@b CS-S @ 2018 RAV4 Adventure @ Massachusetts
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  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,761
    Do you have one of these?  We tested our wiring after the harness install.  Found out they forgot the brake wire😊

    You still need a 10 g charge wire with a wireless controller.


    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 1,261
    I have no idea what a fair price is to wire a seven pin and wiring to dash area for brake controller. Buying the towing package from factory would be a better 1st choice, now it has to be done after the fact and that will probably cost more than the factory option...
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite
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  • TampakayakerTampakayaker Member Posts: 554
    geekmama said:
    The vehicle doesn't have a tow package so that's what the problem is. I'm assuming that vehicles can be made tow-ready after the fact. I can't be the only person doing this. I definitely know what the cable would look like under the left part of the dash. I've connected maybe 3 or 4 brake controllers on similar cars. I followed all wires wearing a headlamp. It's not there. I basically just need someone to put it there. 
    On my RAM I added the 7 pin connector.  Truck already had the 4 pin connector so the 7 pin plugged into that, then I ran the extra wiring.  The controller I purchased had wiring adapters you could get for specific vehicles to connect to the "existing" plug.  I got the correct one for my truck, couldn't locate the plug anywhere under the dash.  Used you tube and e-trailer pages to try to find it and it was nowhere to be found.  Had to return the one adapter and get a generic one that didn't have the vehicle plug just wires.  Instructions showed how to wire it into the truck.  Tricky part was connecting it to the correct brake pedal wire which activated the controller.  Just depends on how handy you are if you want to tackle the job.
    2006 RAM 1500 4 door, 2016 T@B 320 MAX S 
    Tampa FL
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  • WilliamAWilliamA Member Posts: 154
    edited July 2020
    To hardwire a brake controller "from scratch" isn't too bad of a job but there are a few things one needs to work out.
    4 wires:
    12v positive from battery, fused.
    12v negative from battery post ground.
    12v trigger lead.
    12v wire from controller to trailer harness plug.
    The trigger wire nowadays is the tricky part. One can't simply tap into the brake light switch willy-nilly. That switch is now a composite switch that controls all sorts of things like cruise control and ABS computer to name a couple. What I do is find the 3rd brake light wire on the rear hatch and run a tap from that to the controller. That way you'll avoid weird pulsing brakes, or no brakes, depending upon what turn signal or flasher is illuminated. The 3rd brake light is a straight-up, brake light without any frills. The brake controller needs only a tiny bit of power on the trigger wire so amperage isn't an issue. Some vehicles have a tap right in the fusebox that you can use but I just go with the 3rd brake light wire trick.
     In the good old days, you'd just tap into the brake light switch for a brake signal, but those days are gone. To avoid dash warning lights, fried computers or an airbag in the face, just find and tap the 3rd brake light.
    WilliamA
    2021 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
    2017 T@G XL
    Can generally be found around west-central Wisconsin.  
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  • tabiphiletabiphile Member Posts: 442
    N7SHG_Ham said:
    I have no idea what a fair price is to wire a seven pin and wiring to dash area for brake controller. Buying the towing package from factory would be a better 1st choice, now it has to be done after the fact and that will probably cost more than the factory option...
    RV shops charge about $150.00 to run the wires if you are buying a trailer and the controller from them. It's not a difficult job. Routing the wires is the most challenging part. An RV/trailer shop is the best place to have this done. It is also not beyond what a home mechanic could tackle. Having said that...it seems super odd that anyone would have installed a seven pin plug and not wired for a brake controller. 
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  • geekmamageekmama Member Posts: 107
    Wow, the amount I've learned about something I don't really care about is amazing. So it seems that the 2018 RAV4 is not set up to have a plugin brake controller. I did finally talk to both a knowledgable person at Uhaul and a person at my RV service place. The RV service place will hard-wire the controller for me if I want, but both said that with a 2,000 lb trailer it might not be worth it. I will try without the controller for my next trip and see how I feel. I'm not going far.

    Thanks for all the information and ideas!
    Aileen, Muggles & Scout @ 2018 T@b CS-S @ 2018 RAV4 Adventure @ Massachusetts
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  • ontheroadontheroad Member Posts: 485
    edited July 2020
    currently a T@g owner with the T@b CS-S on the order list this year...my understanding is that the electric brakes that are on the T@b will not work without a brake controller...also in some States they have laws instituted that you require one...in New York electric brakes start at 1000lbs...we skoot quickly thru a sliver of New York on our trips stateside
    Former 2017 T@G Max XL
    2021 T@B Boondock CS-S
    2018 Nissan Pathfinder
    Ontario, Canada
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  • MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,727
    geekmama said:
    . . . RV service place will hard-wire the controller for me if I want,
    . . . both said that with a 2,000 lb trailer it might not be worth it.
    . . . will try without the controller for my next trip and see how I feel.

    Your 2018 320 CS-S is not a 2,000# trailer.
    It has a GVWR / GAWR of 2,900# and nearly all states require brakes over 2,000# GVWR
    The 1,851# weight in the sales literature is an Empty Trailer; no food, no gear, no water, no etc..

    Also, RAV4 is a small & light vehicle, a loaded 320 will push it around without brakes on T@B.
    You really need to install some type of brake controller; your old one wired or a new wireless.
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  54   Nights:  341  Towing Miles 43,780
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    geekmama said:
    ...both said that with a 2,000 lb trailer it might not be worth it.
    My understanding is that legally if a trailer has electric brakes provided, they must be hooked up, and from an insurance standpoint, if brakes are available and not used, that’s grounds for immediate dismissal of any accident claims. Plus, if Toyota’s warranty is written like Subaru’s, you may lose on any warranty claims related to towing if the brakes are not used on a trailer over a certain weight.

    In other words, you were given some spectacularly bad advice even if your trailer really was only 2k loaded, which as MuttonChops notes, it surely isn’t.

    Either get the wiring done, or get a wireless brake controller. I’ve used the Tekonsha Prodigy RF wireless, which is installed on the trailer rather than the car, with the “remote” simply plugged into the 12v cigarette lighter-style outlet in the car. Super convenient, since I can simply unplug it when not in use or to switch tow vehicles. There’s also a bluetooth one from Curt that works with your phone.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    A wireless brake controller still needs a 7-pin connector with a 12VDC charging connection on it.  With a RAV4, without a brake Controller  factory wiring harness, that is what I would use, a do use on my Jeep Gladiator truck, whilst I wait for the factory controller to become available.
    Cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • BonalexanderBonalexander Member Posts: 26
    @1bentbike it looks like I am not the only one that is being challenged with a brake controller..this thread is in regards to the rav4 vs my 2017 BMW X5, but it’s the same question and same mystery.  🙃 Crazy how easily confusing this all can be!
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  • geekmamageekmama Member Posts: 107
    I drove my camper a couple of hours to a campground today. I have to say I didn't feel any difference from when I've used a brake controller in the past. The RAV4 Adventure did fine. I didn't feel any difference from bigger cars I've used to tow my camper.

    That being said, I did already order the Curt Echol brake controller which goes in the 7-pin adapter. From the reviews, it seems that half the people love it and half hate it. I guess I'll find out which camp I fall into.
    Aileen, Muggles & Scout @ 2018 T@b CS-S @ 2018 RAV4 Adventure @ Massachusetts
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  • TresK3TresK3 Member Posts: 66
    edited July 2020
    I have just placed a down payment on a used Tab 400 Boondock Lite.  Now I'm looking for a tow vehicle, but have a question about brake controllers (I've towed some lightweight sailboats and moving trailers, but never anything heavy enough to need/use its own brakes).
    VictoriaP said:

    I’ve used the Tekonsha Prodigy RF wireless, which is installed on the trailer rather than the car, with the “remote” simply plugged into the 12v cigarette lighter-style outlet in the car. Super convenient, since I can simply unplug it when not in use or to switch tow vehicles. There’s also a bluetooth one from Curt that works with your phone.
    I'm a little uncertain how the Prodigy works... how does it "sense" that the TV brakes are being applied?  Does the remote wire into anything? Or am I misunderstanding how brake controllers even work?
    Also, what are advantages/disadvantages of wired vs wireless controllers?  I'm not excited about something that works through my phone - while it is smart-ish, I deliberately have a very simple, older gen phone and don't want to upgrade that, too.  I realize it may be harder to install, and less portable, but the idea of something hard wired in appeals to me.
    Thanks, and no doubt I'll be asking a whole host of other questions on the various boards here!
    2019 Tab 400 Boondock Lite
    2017 Dodge Durango AWD with Tow Package IV
    A can of Skyline Chili in the pantry
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited July 2020
    All modern (read current production) brake controllers work with an inertia sensor in the main unit, that senses the direction of movement and sudden change in direction.  That is why the hard wired under the das units need to be secured to the vehicle in a specific direction.  They get a braking clue from the brake light circuit also.  

    But the amount of braking is proportional to how fast the vehicle is stopping.  Think of a bowel of water sloshing around as you drive and brake.  Stop the vehicle and the waters urges forward, this action causes the brake controller to apply voltage to the trailer brakes.  The faster the stop the more voltage is sent to the brakes.  How fast this happens and how much brakingmacrion is applied to the trailer CS the vehicle is setup in the controller when it is installed.

    Wireless units like the Echo and Prodigy Work the same way, get braking signal from the brake light circuit, and they are powered from the 12VDC pin 7 charging circuit on the 7-pin connector. The Prodigy‘s advantaged are, it is radio frequency (not Bluetooth on the Echo) and has a dedicated receiver/display controller head in the TV, so is potentially more reliable.  The trade off is the Prodigy controller/transmitter is bolted to the trailer frame, and requires hard wiring to the trailer 7-pin harness.  It is not Plug and a Play.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • TabberJohnTabberJohn Member Posts: 588
    TresK3 said:
    I have just placed a down payment on a used Tab 400 Boondock Lite.  Now I'm looking for a tow vehicle, but have a question about brake controllers
    Try this resource: https://www.etrailer.com/faq-brakecontroller.aspx
    2015 T@B Max S (White/Silver) -> 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L (turbo, AWD, factory tow)
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  • VernaVerna Member Posts: 6,878
    @TresK3, here are photos of the Prodigy RF Electronic Brake Control and a link to Prodigy’s site:

    https://www.tekonsha.com/mobile/products/brake-controllers/proportional-controllers/trailer-brake-control-proportional/TzaIxkVx1cI5XOy!osRB508pViEKmVBf

    (Prodigy’s site also has a better copy of the quick reference that is attached to the back of the hand held unit.)


    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,761
    @Denny16 - our Prodigy RF brake controller is plug and play.  After mounting on the frame, you plug it into the TaB 7 pin cable, then you plug the other controller cable into the TV 7 pin outlet.  
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • TabberJohnTabberJohn Member Posts: 588
    edited July 2020
    Tekonsha makes nice controllers. We have a hardwired model.
    The recent recall on the RF/Bluetooth replacement kits for     902501 is apparently due to a missing warning in the documentation. Some 7-way connectors won't brake via foot pedal if your 4-way flashers are turned on. 
    2015 T@B Max S (White/Silver) -> 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L (turbo, AWD, factory tow)
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited July 2020
    Sharon, good to know.  When I did my initial research, the Prodigy RF brake controller instructions showed it had to be wired into the junction box the 7-pin was connected to, and the install video showed the same requirement.  
    Cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • TresK3TresK3 Member Posts: 66
    Excellent information and links!  Thanks to everyone.  I'm sure that the current trailer owner will give me the full run-down on using and adjusting the unit (wink, wink, Verna).  ;)

    2019 Tab 400 Boondock Lite
    2017 Dodge Durango AWD with Tow Package IV
    A can of Skyline Chili in the pantry
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  • rajamarrajamar Member Posts: 112
    We've been using a wireless Autowbrake controller for nearly 3 years on our 2016 320S towed with 2004 Sienna. It works great. Info here: https://getautowbrake.com/products/autowbrake-trailer-mounted-electric-brake-control 
    It is available on Amazon also.
    Forum install question answered here:
    https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/133858#Comment_133858
    2016 T@B S - TV 2004 Toyota Sienna
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