Elwell sent me a temperature probe and harness; just installed it

warbler_road

I am not going to write a long install guide, but those wanting tips and tricks are free to message or ask on this thread.

The Jupiter 3 is in the carport right now and won't be in the sun for a while, but the sensor definitely works and runs the AIR 8 based on the temperature at the control panel.

Truth be told, I haven't had much of a problem with the AC. We have taken several trips and the last was HOT in the afternoon (mid-90s). Our AIR8 kept up with a small fan to move air around inside. Now it should work without the little fan. (Having our new homemade awning definitely helped too.)

One other small jury-rig: I have this old black foam chair cushion in the back of the truck. After setting up, I wedge it between the ground and the tail of the camper so that it forms a partition between the AC inflow and outflow. Not optimal, but it's not noticeable and maybe that's why I'm getting decent results.

TNOutback

This is where we installed the external temp sensor.  Decided to not install too close to the ceiling, otherwise it could be influenced to run too long by the heat transfer coming through the ceiling. (I have measured the ceiling at 104 degrees beneath where the solar panel is installed on the roof.)

I think a small fan would still be helpful since 2 of the 3 duct outlets are down low near the floor of the trailer.  Ideally, all of the a/c vents would be installed up high, but that’s not the case.

Denny16

Elwel still recommends using the small fan pointed up to help circulation of air in the TaB400.  Even with the new replacement larger Air8+ unit.
cheers

Addison

They sent me one for my 2021 320 BD, good instruction how to install it to the unit, then nothing else.... anyone know? Id have a long wire attached to the ac unit .....

TNOutback

I’m not convinced that a fan on the floor is necessarily helpful for the Air8. I still want to do some more testing on this.  I have noticed on hot days that when I put a fan on the floor to circulate the air, the duct outlet temperatures increase.  I attribute this to the boundary of really hot air next to the ceiling is now mixing into the intake (which otherwise would not have this hotter air without the fan on the floor).  I do not observe this increase in outlet temps when I don’t use the fan on the floor, and I have tested this a few times now with the same results.  This may not be an issue for the Cool Cat though.  I was using one of the larger Vornado fans, so I was REALLY mixing the air.

rh5555

I'm repeating information from another thread:

If you draw in hotter air, the AIR8 will operate at a higher efficiency and cool it more. So you can pull in 90F air and cool it 20F or pull in 80F air and cool it 15F.  Yes, the 80F air is now 65F, whereas the 90F air is 70F, but you've removed 90F air from the trailer compared to removing 80F air.  Overall you've gained 5F.

This is why mixing up the air is a good idea.  Better still would be to draw air from next to the ceiling.  The hotter the input air, the better the cooling capability of the AIR8.

crohrbacher

@TNOutback. I just installed my relocated temp sensor next to my light switch. It seems to work great there.

johnfconway

Is Elwell sending sensors to everyone on "the list" to your knowledge?  Did it just show up, or did you know it was coming?

johnfconway

Anyone else on the Elwell/nuCamp Air 8 remediation list for months not get this sensor sent to them? Is it like the air intake scoop kit in that you have to somehow know about it and then make request(s) to get one?

MarkAl

@Addison For the 320 I asked Customer Service at nuCamp when I got the mod for fastening the AC to the floor better about the sensor issue. They gave me the number at Elwell and said they were handling the sensor update. They promptly sent it but then I had the same thoughts as you "great I know how to put it on the AC where do I install it". They passed me to nuCamp and I've asked twice and was told they are evaluating it. Well I've got all winter for them to evaluate it now...

crohrbacher

@johnfconway Even though I'm supposedly on "the list" for replacement, I had to ask nuCamp to send me the diverter for the exhaust. I also had to send an email to Elwell and ask for the thermostat relocation kit. Both were sent to me promptly.

johnfconway

@MarkAl Did the 2021 320S come with Elwell Air8plus?

johnfconway

crohrbacher said:

@johnfconway Even though I'm supposedly on "the list" for replacement, I had to ask nuCamp to send me the diverter for the exhaust. I also had to send an email to Elwell and ask for the thermostat relocation kit. Both were sent to me promptly.

Thanks for the reply. I just sent an email to Josh Elwell regarding thermostat relocation kit. Also had to ask for the now installed air intake scoop. Jeesh... anything else that we're missing?!

MarkAl

@johnfconway I don't know what the "Air8plus" is. I know of three issues that have come up on the 320. 1) AC unit not being held down well enough - I think only a problem on the earliest units and nuCamp sent the update kit. 2) Temp sensor location, for this I don't know the details just asked nuCamp and they sent me to Elwell, I "assume" relocating will improve temperature control, they sent instructions a black "button" and long sensor/cable. The finger pointing started then - call nuCamp for where to put it... 3) SW update to change the fan ON action. Since I haven't been plugged into shore power when hot I've only verified the system works in the driveway. We have plans next summer that may require the AC so I want it fully functional.

I only see the one unit on their website, if so it'll probably cool better on the 320s than the larger 400...

johnfconway

MarkAl said:

@johnfconway I don't know what the "Air8plus" is.

The original Air8 in the 2020 400s is a 6500 BTU unit. The experimental replacement, Air8+ is said to be around 8300 BTUs. It still ends up insufficient in the hot and humid areas of the country. Was curious about T@B 320s and whether they went with the beefier unit for 2021.

Dutch061

rh5555 said:

I'm repeating information from another thread:

If you draw in hotter air, the AIR8 will operate at a higher efficiency and cool it more. So you can pull in 90F air and cool it 20F or pull in 80F air and cool it 15F.  Yes, the 80F air is now 65F, whereas the 90F air is 70F, but you've removed 90F air from the trailer compared to removing 80F air.  Overall you've gained 5F.

This is why mixing up the air is a good idea.  Better still would be to draw air from next to the ceiling.  The hotter the input air, the better the cooling capability of the AIR8.

Sorry, this is not true. Not exactly sure how or why the person you are quoting is using 2 different delta values. If anything, the delta may be less at 90 inlet than at 80 inlet; it most certainly will not be 5 degrees more efficient at 90. That is not how refrigeration works. At best the delta is going to be 20 Degrees. So if the inlet air temperature is

70-20 = 50 outlet
80-20 = 60 outlet
90-20= 70 outlet
100-20 = 80 outlet
110-20 = 90 outlet 

The kicker with the Air8 is simply insufficient cooling capacity to overcome the thermal load. This prevents it from being able to continue to push the "inside air temperature" down. 

P.S. I installed my Ambient Temperature Sensor similar to the original poster did but a little closer to the Air8 Controls. Since if it would have been like most other thermostats that is where it would have been originally. 

My last email to ElWell was never answered. "OhWell" it will be OK. 

rh5555

@Dutch061, I refer you to my detailed post as to why you get more cooling from your AIR8 if you draw in hotter air.

See: https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/131793#Comment_131793

mrdeepfryguy

@johnfconway   the 2021 320S definitely has the AIR8 system, not the AIR8+. We used it 5 times this summer and it worked well for us. Several 90+ degrees days with the unit keeping the inside temp in the low 70’s.

johnfconway

TNOutback said:

This is where we installed the external temp sensor.  Decided to not install too close to the ceiling, otherwise it could be influenced to run too long by the heat transfer coming through the ceiling. (I have measured the ceiling at 104 degrees beneath where the solar panel is installed on the roof.)

We did get Elwell to send sensor. It was an oversight.

Looks like you were able to run wire into closet and up the wall. Ours has three-way frig. If I am lucky, I might be able to get sensor most of the way to same height, but on the wall over bed (just around corner).

Anyone with 3-way frig place sensor differently?

AirBoss

I have the Air 8+ and the sensor was installed to right of the Jensen Head Unit, equidistant from the head unit as the 3-way fridge switch. 

johnfconway

Thank you @AirBoss!  I think I will hold on to it 'til our number comes up for Air8 replacement. No danger succumbing to heat at this point in the season. Headed to Chiricahua National Monument in a few hours!

gooselady

@MarkAl What is the update "kit" that holds the AC inplace?  I just got a picture of stuff I'm supposed to buy and install, including cutting and bending some metal.  Not user friendly, for sure!!

AirBoss

johnfconway said:

Thank you @AirBoss!  I think I will hold on to it 'til our number comes up for Air8 replacement. No danger succumbing to heat at this point in the season. Headed to Chiricahua National Monument in a few hours!

NP. Enjoy the trip. May be heading that direction next month as part of a cross-country trip. Thinking about a more northern route eastbound, then a more southern route westbound in November. 

Beautiful country. Safe travels...

MarkAl

@gooselady if your 2021 does not have the modification to better secure the AC unit, call nuCamp (or see your dealer) they have an update kit of the metal and fasteners that the document references.

Dutch061

rh5555 said:

@Dutch061, I refer you to my detailed post as to why you get more cooling from your AIR8 if you draw in hotter air.

See: https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/131793#Comment_131793

Not to create an argument but if we use your chart and 100 F for external and 95 for internal temperatures, the BTU in your chart shows theoretically 24,000 BTU which is 2 tons. If this were actually true, this would provide cooling in full sun and a very hot climate for approximately 800 to 1000 Square Foot.

Based on this alone, no one would have an issue with the Air8 and certainly not with the Air8+ in the 400. Since I have been in contact with at least 3 different people who have an Air8+ and own a 2020 400 BDL with an Air8, I can assure you that this is simply not the case.

What I can tell you is that if the refrigeration system is working properly that the outlet temperature will be about 20 degrees cooler than the inlet temperature at all times which is fine. What is not fine is the insufficient cooling capacity (aka BTU's) to overcome the thermal load to continue driving the temperature inside the camper down until the thermal load drops IE Shade, lower humidity, or cooler temperatures outside. 

I was determined for months that there was sufficient BTU's and it was merely a control problem due to incorrect temperature information inside the camper. In those months I defended time and again the Air8 because I knew if it couldn't properly read the temperature there wasn't any chance of truly testing it to see what it was capable of. After all, how can you evaluate something if it never really knows the correct temperature? If you try, is it a system problem or a control problem? I was even convinced for a short period of time that changing the fan programming helped. In a way it did, because at least there was air that was somewhat closer to the actual temperature inside the camper passing over the thermistor even if it was air off of the floor that was cooler. The clincher for me was after I installed the ambient sensor so I was able to actually test an air conditioner that was reading temperature correctly. Put it in the NC heat, sun, and humidity and it simply doesn't perform adequately. 

Please, take your 2020 400 BDL camper somewhere hot and see how happy you are with your air conditioning performance. It will remove the need for math, physics, or a continuation of beating this to death. 

I am done replying or responding to anything in regards to the Air8. I have wasted more time and effort on this subject than anything else related to NuCamp. 


Brad

rh5555

@Dutch061, when I provided those theoretical numbers for BTU I was really only trying to point out that a  8000 BTU @ 15F temperature difference might be the same as a 6000 BTU unit at 20F.  I should never have extended the comparison to a 5F difference - other factors other than the theoretical maximum have long since limited the real world BTU capacity of the AIR8 (extending further, the theoretical BTU at 0F difference is infinite - I wish!)

But it is true that you get more cooling out of your A/C unit if its input temperature is higher.  I did an experiment with my camper back when the sun was shining.  I ducted heat from the top of the trailer to the input of the AIR8.  When the input air was 90F, I got 40.9F of cooling (with the AIR8 on its lowest fan setting); when the input air was 81F, I only got 37.1F of cooling - 3.8F less.  The trouble is that at its lowest fan setting the AIR8 doesn't move enough air at these levels of cooling to counteract the heat being absorbed by the trailer.  The only solution to this problem is to limit the heat input (difficult) or install a more powerful A/C unit.  Bringing hotter air from the roof of the trailer helps, but evidently this won't be enough when outside temperatures are extreme. 

Amazonica

I just received my thermocouple relocation wire and mushroom/button. I understand the PDF instructions Elwell sent that detail replacing the short wire in the unit, but I don't understand how to secure the thermocouple protector mushroom to the wall. I'm guessing I drill a small hole at my selected location, and push the thermocouple through the wood, but how did you guys secure it @warbler_road, @TNOutback, or anyone? I'm at a loss on how to keep the TC wire from falling back into the wall, and the front button from just falling out of the hole I drill.

On a side note, Elwell was very expeditious in sending the relocation 'kit' at no charge when I contacted them via email if anyone out there is hesitating.

Dutch061

I think the hole I drilled was 3/8" but I can't remember, however it was a tight enough fit that there was no danger of the "button" falling out. After installing the "button", I placed the thermistor in place and used duct tape to hold it in place (as per ElWell's response to me asking that same question). It has never moved since.

Brad

Amazonica

Thank you very much @Dutch061. 

warbler_road

I wedged a piece of plastic rod from my workbench along with the thermistor into the back of the "mushroom" to hold it in place, and put on a dab of caulk to make sure.

Amazonica

Thank you @warbler_road. The replies are confirming my guesses that the 'button' and the TC wire both need to be secured. I appreciate the willingness to share knowledge and info to those of us with less experience.