Resolved- Perplexed With Tire Carrier Woes

CrabTab

Earlier this year we discovered the tire cage had fractured on our 2019 320 Boondock Edge.


On the forum I found a recent discussion where the factory now had a different tire carrier available. NuCamp directed us to go through a dealer when I inquired about this being a potential defect. After more than a month and countless contacts with the local dealer (where we purchased our T@B) I couldn't even get a price from their service department.

Exasperated, I sent an email to a couple of email address on the NuCamp web site to try and get info. Customer Service was quick to respond and promptly sent the new tire carrier bracket gratis.

Today we installed the new bracket and are faced with a new dilemma. We have 8 1/2" clearance between the stud on the bracket and the wheel jack post. The tire is 9" wide.



We tried all sorts of angles and cannot get it to drop in place. No instructions came with the new tire carrier.  Is this carrier designed to be unbolted from the tub during a tire change? Help from any clearer minds would be greatly appreciated. I used to be smarter than this...

CrabTab

Follow up thought... Can I move the tub back against the trailer to gain enough clearance? Will the gasket on the tub abrade the surface of the trailer?

Edit- Had a chance to look at it and there isn't enough of a gap to gain the needed distance. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Can you use shorter bolts on the spare mount?

AirBoss

Not familiar with the configuration but a thought:

Is it possible to reverse the process? Assuming the bolts shown must pass through the lugnut holes on the wheel, can you craft a removeable bracket that has the threaded bolt pass through the wheel and the fixed bracket rear-ward, then secure the nuts on the backside of the fixed bracket? 

Denny16

The new spare tire Mount appears to have been designed For,the standard size tire, not the off-road Boondock tyres.
cheers

jkjenn

Denny16 said:

The new spare tire Mount appears to have been designed For,the standard size tire, not the off-road Boondock tyres.
cheers

It fits.

jkjenn

CrabTab

Thank you SO much for all of the photos @jkjenn. It looks like the old diamond plate tub is deeper than the new, bigger tub or the jack wheel post is further forward. I am even more envious of Mattie Ross!

I think I'll try cutting the studs shorter similar to @Sharon_is_SAM's suggestion first, as it is a free fix. My next option is to press out the studs and get some shoulder bolts like @AirBoss suggested.

We really appreciate the breadth of experience and knowledge on this forum!

jkjenn

Glad they helped.

Yes, the new tub is closer to oblong than oval.

rfuss928

CrabTab   FWIW  VWs (and I'm sure others) use lug bolts to mount their wheels.  Possibly after pressing out the studs, the holes (or a couple new holes) could be tapped for readily available lug bolts.  It sounds like your on track to a workable solution with all these ideas.
Have fun!
Bob


typical lug bolt

Bayliss

@CrabTab, I am following this with GREAT interest.  I ran into the exact same problem, except that my issue was insufficient clearance caused by my Jack-It bike carrier.  However, based on your experience, I am assuming that the jack tube would have prevented it even without the bike carrier.  The problem is definitely due to the design/size of the earlier version aluminum tub, which sticks out further than the new and improved version.

I tried everything I could think of, including trying to move the tub all the way back, but that didn't help (as you have already figured out.)  I went back and forth with Creed (back in May) trying to find a solution.  He was of little help and didn't really seem to fully comprehend the issue I had encountered.  He ultimately told me that the shop foreman said I will probably have to drill out the wheel lug studs.  Due to the Covid-19 situation, I have not made any headway, but sure would like to find a good resolution.  My plan right now is to contact a tire shop, or machine shop, and see if they have a better idea.

Also, nüCamp uses some sort of silver stuff (solder?) around the threads of the lugs where they meet the tire carrier (see yellow arrow on second photo.)  I am not sure if that is creating a roadblock for me in trying to remove the lugs.  Despite my multiple questions to Creed regarding exactly what that is, he did not respond.  Very frustrating.

I attempted removing the lugs with vice grips, but I could not get a solid grip around the round head of the lug (it just spun around the head of the lug.)  If a tire/machine shop can't help me out, I will probably cut down the lug bolts as far as I can and drill out the remainder.  I'm a little leery about how that will work out, but if I am successful, I will replace the lugs with removable stainless steel bolts/nuts to secure the wheel/tire to the mount.  Since I already drilled the two holes in the aluminum tub to mount the bracket, I bought some small plastic hole plugs at Lowes.  They cover the holes nicely.

Please do let us know if you are able to figure out a workable solution.

P.S.  You are very fortunate to have received the tire carrier gratis.  I purchased mine through a dealer, because I could see that the stock carrier provided by nüCamp was going to fail and would be an extreme hazard while towing.

rfuss928

Bayliss & CrabTab,
Generally those studs just press in.  I think the photo above is showing the aluminum displaced by the press fit.  Try supporting the backing plate over an open vise or a deep socket just a bit larger than the head of the stud and pound the stud out.  I think it will walk right out.  This is a common method to replace broken wheel studs in brake drums and rotors.  An arbor press is the preferred tool but most mechanics have easier access to a big hammer.
Have fun!
Bob


Typical wheel stud

CrabTab

With the info from jkjenn, I realized that this wasn't a matter of me installing the carrier wrong. This device wasn't designed to fit the 'old tub' on my 2019 T@B.

With a fresh perspective, I decided to swap out the lug studs for a similar size bolt that would pull out of the way to allow the tire to drop into place. Once on the platform, I slid the bolts through the carrier and tire. Then I attached the lug nuts that came with the carrier.

1/2" x 2" fine thread bolts (20TPI). Grade 8 bolts were used here because that is what I could find in the size to fit the lug nuts.


Front view with the tire attached.



 @Bayliss I don't have access to a hydraulic press anymore to get the bolts out. I tried using a socket and a c-clamp (like you'd use to remove a universal joint) but could not generate enough torque. Plan B was to let loose my Neanderthal DNA and pound the lug studs out. I used a sacrificial deep well socket and two 2x4 scraps to support the tire carrier during the 'beat down' The holes are about 17/32" DIA (larger than the bolt) and only required a bit of burr removal, from the initial pressing, to clean them up.



@rfuss928 Over the decades I've worked on vehicles with bolts instead of nuts to attach the wheels. Great input! I worried that threading the aluminum to accept the bolt would not be substantial enough over the long haul. This all started for me with a fractured 3/4" aluminum tire cage.

Thank you to everyone for the ideas and inspiration that resolved one of the items on 'my list'!

rfuss928

Nicely done!  I like the bolt that fits the lug nut approach.  Threaded aluminum can be a problem.  This way no machining required - simple and effective.  Nice write-up for those facing a similar challenge.

jkjenn

Great job. Really glad it worked out for you!

Bayliss

@CrabTab........good job!  Thank you to both you and @rfuss928 for the solution.  I will give it a try and hopefully have the same success.  (UPDATE 08-12-2020 - - it worked!)

Tampakayaker

@CrabTab, nice solution!  Make sure you pack the proper size wrench or socket to hold those bolt heads if you have to change a flat.

CrabTab

Thanks for looking out for me @Tampakayaker!

Used the dog bone wrenches, breaker bar and socket from the travel tool bag for initial installation (just to be sure it would work the rainy night on a dirt road when they're needed). 

ChanW

Nice to see you got it fixed. Silly little problem that stalled a perfectly reasonable plan!

Are those stainless bolts? I've seen some pretty drastic corrosion happen between steel bolts and aluminum...

CrabTab

@ChanW Thanks for the insight.

They are grade 8 steel bolts, the only correct size match I could find in my coffee can storage system. Interestingly, the original lug studs in the carrier are steel too.

I found these #316 stainless steel bolts online last night.

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=18152

Ordering is on my To Do list for today. @Bayliss, I think these are what you were looking for too.

TNFlyrodder

We have a new 2021 T@B 320S Boondock that mounts the spare tire under the tub on the platform. It is a factory Nucamp mount. Bolts on easily inside the tub, beside the propane tank. The tire is raised and lowered by a cable that pulls the tire up out of the way and secures it. I was concerned about this setup taking away from ground clearance, but it does not. You may want to look into this if you are not successful with your current approach.

Bayliss

@CrabTab, thanks for the tip on the stainless steel bolts.  I appreciate it.

ChanW

I've used Bolt Depot. They're reasonable, and they offer 1st Class Mail shipping, which helps when you're only ordering 2 bolts!

Marceline

Fastenal is another good source for hardware. 

This might be overkill for this application but I’ve had good luck with using Lanocote to prevent bad things from happening when using steel fasteners on aluminum. 

https://www.forespar.com/products/boat-lubricant-lanocote.shtml

ChanW

@Marceline,

Huh! Interesting that the Lanocote page you pointed to says that stainless and 'alloy' (I assume aluminum alloy) can have galvanic corrosion. 

I was under the impression that stainless was the answer to that problem...

Marceline said:

Fastenal is another good source for hardware. 

This might be overkill for this application but I’ve had good luck with using Lanocote to prevent bad things from happening when using steel fasteners on aluminum. 

https://www.forespar.com/products/boat-lubricant-lanocote.shtml

CrabTab

@ChanW Any dissimilar metals contact will corrode through electrolysis.

That is interesting stuff @Marceline. I may be a bit 'Flintstone', but have  always used a thin coat of petroleum jelly (Vaseline) around contact areas to try and accomplish the same goal.

Caution: Just had my coffee and I'm full of random thoughts in what follows.  Feel free to correct me where I got it wrong!

As I understand it:

Electrolysis is different from oxidation, corrosion from the interaction with air. Non ferrous metals (stainless steel and aluminum in our purpose here) do not break down as quickly through oxidation as steel. That is where they get the stellar reputation.

Electrolysis (galvanic corrosion) is from an induction of electricity between different metals (Think of the crud that builds up on battery connections) This is  even more prevalent in salt environments like ocean air or winter road salt. 

Really look at the different metal contact areas on your trailer. My boondock platform  rests on the frame for example, two dissimilar metals. Electrolysis is going to happen. 

I chose 316 stainless for the bolts I ordered for the tire carrier because they have molybdenum in the alloy. This is supposed to inhibit salt corrosion. They are used in marine applications. I suppose I am really just fighting oxidation with that move.

To limit electrolysis in house plumbing, between copper and iron pipe we use a plastic connector (insulator) to limit contact areas and electrolysis. One could put plastic pads between the contact areas, but there is still contact through the fastener. This is too over the top for my purpose.

Relax, it just comes down to keeping up with the maintenance (Right?) 


As usual, I learn so much from all the comments. Thank you both!

Marceline

CrabTab said:

@ChanW Any dissimilar metals contact will corrode through electrolysis.

That is interesting stuff @Marceline. I may be a bit 'Flintstone', but have  always used a thin coat of petroleum jelly (Vaseline) around contact areas to try and accomplish the same goal.

Caution: Just had my coffee and I'm full of random thoughts in what follows.  Feel free to correct me where I got it wrong!

As I understand it:

Electrolysis is different from oxidation, corrosion from the interaction with air. Non ferrous metals (stainless steel and aluminum in our purpose here) do not break down as quickly through oxidation as steel. That is where they get the stellar reputation.

Electrolysis (galvanic corrosion) is from an induction of electricity between different metals (Think of the crud that builds up on battery connections) This is  even more prevalent in salt environments like ocean air or winter road salt. 

Really look at the different metal contact areas on your trailer. My boondock platform  rests on the frame for example, two dissimilar metals. Electrolysis is going to happen. 

I chose 316 stainless for the bolts I ordered for the tire carrier because they have molybdenum in the alloy. This is supposed to inhibit salt corrosion. They are used in marine applications. I suppose I am really just fighting oxidation with that move.

To limit electrolysis in house plumbing, between copper and iron pipe we use a plastic connector (insulator) to limit contact areas and electrolysis. One could put plastic pads between the contact areas, but there is still contact through the fastener. This is too over the top for my purpose.

Relax, it just comes down to keeping up with the maintenance (Right?) 


As usual, I learn so much from all the comments. Thank you both!

I'm just a hack sailor and not a materials scientist but that sounds about right.
I've rebuilt a couple of masts and booms and whenever possible I've put some kind of plastic between steel fittings and the aluminum mast or boom and rolled the fasteners in Lanocote. When appropriate I've used aluminum rivets instead of steel bolts. When I switched from the plastic tub to the aluminum tub on the T@B I used nylon washers on the bolts. I'm probably overly paranoid but it really isn't any extra effort.

CrabTab

 I agree with your methods of work @Marceline. I guess the point I was trying to make in my last post is that corrosion in one form or another is inevitable. Seems my outlook has been reactive. I should aspire to be more proactive, like you.

Thanks. As always, I learn from the content of your posts @Marceline.

ChanW

And thanks yourself @CrabTab. Good info.

TresaKaye

Getting familiar with this thread, as our 2021 Tab 320S Boondock came without ANY type of spare tire carrier, and the dealer told us we just had to "carry it inside the camper." :-D  Well, we'd followed this community and the one on FB long enough to know that wasn't the case, so our sales paperwork stipulates that the service department will eventually find a solution. They state that NuCamp is aware that our camper is one that was delivered without the carrier under the front. We'd prefer not to have that one, anyway. Can a spare be mounted on the tongue of the 2021? Should we buy a basket for the Yakima rack and stow it there? And is the 14" spare with the plain white wheel REALLY the right spare for our Boondock? I thought the Boondock spare was the same as the other two Boondock tires. Appreciate your advice!

Verna

@TresaKaye, the full size spare for the Boondock is an option, which means you have to pay for it. 

I ordered the full size spare with the mount for the front of the tub. I did not want to deal with a spare underneath, even if it was on a cable lift system.