Sway Control - TAB 400 - Toyota Tacoma

ColoradoSun

I know this topic appears in the Forum regularly and I have read through several past threads. Lots of answers but often completely different. Last month before picking up our 2021 T@B 400 BD I asked the dealer about installing a sway control bar based upon our Toyota Tacoma owner's manual statement that towing a trailer over 2,000 lbs required a "sway control device". They didn't think it was needed but agreed to install one. Day of pickup the technician conducting the orientation told me sway bars could not be installed on the T@B trailers due the C-channel A-frame construction which would be weaken by drilling the holes required to install the sway bar. After much discussion I gave up and drove home 175 miles with no "sway control device". I never experienced any noticeable sway even in high winds.
Given the owner's manual stated requirement for a "sway control device" I am still considering installing one. Have any other T@B 400 owners experienced or heard of any issues with drilling holes into the frame to mount sway bars? Does anyone know if Toyota's anti-sway feature, that is part of their tow package, meets the sway control device requirement in the owner's manual. I am also going to ask NuCamp about the frame drilling and Toyota about the tow package's anti-sway feature but am hoping other owner's have already successfully resolved these questions.

NovaTab

there are several types show us a pic of the one you're considering

ColoradoSun

I haven't narrowed down a choice but most all of the smaller models I've drilling 4-6 holes through the frame to mount the sway bar to the trailer. I'd be very interested anyone's experience with a sway bar they've installed on a T@B 400 that did or did not require drilling holes into the frame for the mounting bracket. 
I've also emailed NuCamp Technical Support whether they have a position on whether drilling holes in the frame is a problem.

NovaTab

if those holes compromise the frame we're all in trouble, that is no issue what so ever to drill.

johnfconway

Dealer near Phoenix had no qualms about installing Camco EAZ Lift Sway Control. Install was gratis. Used it on way home (5 hours). Have not used it since (way more than 5 hours). No difference in performance. Outside and inside photos of what's on the C-channel are attached. In retrospect, I do hope decal covered up by this was not important!

important!

ColoradoSun

I tend to think the dealer's technician was wrong but appreciate any information that would clarify.

ColoradoSun

johnfconway I think you probably already knew this.

johnfconway

ColoradoSun said:

johnfconway I think you probably already knew this.

Looks like we have the same gravel, although a full western-sized state apart!

Verna

Have you have you checked your trailer frame warranty?  I thought there was a clause in tge warranty that voided the warranty if holes were placed in certain places.

Denny16

Bottom line seems to be towing a TaB 320 or 400 without a sway bar on a mid size truck is not really necessary, most owners have not experienced any additional benefit from using a sway bar.  I think the disadvantages of using a sway bar, outweigh any minor advantage it may have.  You can control trailer sway by driving slower in situations which increase the likelihood of getting sway, like heavy cross winds.  Also loading yiur trailer properly by keeping more weight in front of the TaB axle, and maintaining the correct tongue weight ratio.
cheers

ColoradoSun

Verna I don't have anything in my owner's packet about the trailer frame or its warranty. I emailed this question to NuCamp technical support. They just replied "Unfortunately we have no position since it is aftermarket. Although a bolt through system would be better than a tension-held since it can damage the C channel. ".

Verna

Okay, @ColoradoSun. I know there were discussions about the holes a few years ago.,

GatorEgg

   I towed our 320 approx 8000-10000 miles with my 2019 Tacoma.  I installed a Reese ($35)sway bar.  Just like pictured above by johnfconway.  Not because I needed it but because the Tacoma owners manual specified it for any trailer over 2000 lbs.  I figured it was cheap insurance in case of an accident and a claim that I didn’t have proper manual specified equipment.  I rarely adjusted it to actually control sway.  Only once on I95 when I expected to run 75-80 to keep from getting run over.  Normally it’s was just attached with friction disabled.
As far as a T@b and sway I was told by my dealer, the install of sway control isn’t an issue with the frame.  But the installation of WDH(weight distribution hitch) is.
And all this was in relation of a 320.

jimcenname

I studied mechanical engineering in college, though I am not a professional engineer. I learned in college that when you put a hole in a beam (the C-Channel functions as a "beam") it reduces the load the beam can support. Since nuCamp took a "pass" when asked about this we don't know if holes were accounted for when they picked the size of the C-Channel for the frame. 

I didn't install sway control or weight distribution on my 2019 T@B400 pulled by my 2017 Nissan Frontier (6000 # towing capacity) similar size to a Tacoma, and I occasionally notice a very small amount of sway. When towing I rarely exceed at 60 mph which reduces sway and helps my gas mileage.  Someone posted somewhere on this forum a video of how trailer loading can dramatically affect sway. I will take my loaded truck and trailer to a scale to measure each axle weight and tongue weight to be sure it is all appropriate. 

ColoradoSun

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

warbler_road

As another Tacoma driver, pulling a 400 and starting out as a newbie at towing, I have no sway bar and have not had the slightest problem with it over about eight trips now.

I got urethane sumosprings to prevent tail sag but that's it.

DanManz

X 2 with @warbler_road.  We tow with our 2010 Tacoma, SR V6 which has the Firestone Ride-Rite booster springs.  No sway bar.  I worry slightly about the tongue weight so I try to pack the 400 with as much weight as possible behind the axle and less in the back of the truck.  We keep the speed at about 60 or below since the mileage takes such a hit and we're not really hurrying anyway.  We've never had any sway or wobbling while towing.  A lot of people seem to think these Tacomas are a little light for towing a 400.  For us, it works great and is a perfect truck for the 95% of time I am not towing our T@b.

NorthIsUp

@ColoradoSun - Our dealer in NV told us the same thing about C-channel etc. construction and easily could have sold us one. Said it wasn't needed and that he WOULD NOT install it on a 400 because of the reasons cited.

ColoradoSun

Thanks everyone. I've decided to try towing the 400 for a while without the sway bar and see how that goes. I'll just keep it under 60 mph and pay attention to how we load it to maintain proper weight distribution. The 2021 tongue weight is rated lower than previous year models but I know that will change depending on how you load it up.

atlasb

At some point at one time or another most of us have towed at 70mph or more.  Please consider speed rating of the T@B tires, among other factors when traveling at speed.  For your safety as well as your fellow travelers!

NovaTab

Also important is tire pressure, done right is to go to truck scale straddle 3 if possible.
so you have front & rear TV then trailer.

then lookup your tire size vs load set pressure.

If you want get more precise the trailer left / right

that will not only help any sway weather you feel it or not but improve overall handling

PS: some TV's have built in sway senors like my Trail Hawk

MadCityJack

I have a 2018 Toyota Highlander and the manual says the same thing about requiring an anti sway device for any trailer over 2000 lbs.   I called my insurance agent and she said if it is required by the manufacturer and there is liability, the insurance company may not pay if you were not using such a device.  From what I have read, I don't believe a sway bar is necessary with the 320 but if it doesn't damage the trailer, I will put it on this Spring as "insurance".  I bought the Reese Friction bar.  I think it has to be released to back up.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Reese/83660.html

GatorEgg

jimcenname said:

I studied mechanical engineering in college, though I am not a professional engineer. I learned in college that when you put a hole in a beam (the C-Channel functions as a "beam") it reduces the load the beam can support. 

I’m not being a smart alec.  Really.  I’m also not a mechanical engineer.  The way I justified it in my mind was I did drill a hole in the frame.  But I filled those holes very tightly with with a bolt.  It’s actually a self tapping bolt.   How does that fall on the strength lessening/ increasing meter?  And if there was a strength reducing problem there would be some warning from the sway control company.  These have been around many, many years.

ColoradoSun

The factory tow package includes a sway control feature that is apparently electronic rather than mechanical. I could ask Toyota if they feel it qualifies as a "sway control device with sufficient capacity".  My guess is they can't take a position on whether it is sufficient since they have not tested it with this specific trailer. 

GrandmasKid

ColoradoSun said:

The factory tow package includes a sway control feature that is apparently electronic rather than mechanical. I could ask Toyota if they feel it qualifies as a "sway control device with sufficient capacity".  My guess is they can't take a position on whether it is sufficient since they have not tested it with this specific trailer. 

I take it that the electronic sway control that comes with the Tacoma is for the Tacoma and not for any trailer that we might be towing and that Toyota believes that if we are towing a trailer weighing over 2,000 pounds we should have a sway control device for the trailer. I'm shopping for a sway control device for a 2021 400 BD and for one of the WDH with sway control the instructions say to turn the TV electronic sway control off when using the hitch. This search is proving to be more frustrating than I anticipated.

ColoradoSun

I assumed, but don't actually know, the factory electronic sway control system is intended to deal with sway from a trailer being towed.

N7SHG_Ham

Here is a video explaining how electronic sway control works on Ford's, probably same for other makes. It works basically like anti skid that has been around for a number of years, reduces power and speed and individually applies needed brakes. If those work good, I would think that is all you need, in fact adding a friction sway bar would probably fight with the electronics and thus why they suggest turning off.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHFDhd7638

Also mentioned is loading and speed, so load properly and slow down and sway control probably will never engage.

GrandmasKid

Well, I confess this is really starting to bug me. My Toyota Tacoma comes with the "Trailer Sway Control is part of the VSC system" as is stated in the manual. It apparently works just like the Ford system described above. The Toyota manual also says, "If the gross trailer weight is over 2000 lb. (907 kg), a sway control

device with sufficient capacity is required." Does that mean I need an add on sway device separate from Tacoma electronic system for a 400 Boondock? I guess I have to try to contact Toyota and try to get an answer. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Toyota will give me one.

GrandmasKid

warbler_road said:

As another Tacoma driver, pulling a 400 and starting out as a newbie at towing, I have no sway bar and have not had the slightest problem with it over about eight trips now.

I got urethane sumosprings to prevent tail sag but that's it.

I'm a new 2021 Tacoma owner and I wonder if installing sumosprings would void my warranty. Which model Tacoma do you have? My Off Road is rated for a 6400 lbs towing capacity and 640 lbs of tongue weight. May I know how much sag you had before getting the sumo springs? Thanks.

warbler_road

I have the SR, 2018, which is a V6 but without the TRD fancy suspension package and lift. It's basically for road use (and cheaper :-D ) but still has the Toyota tow package, four-wheel drive and the big engine. Same rated towing capacity as you.

I did a fair amount of research, and got the impression that TRDs sag more because of their nice off-road suspension. I also read about the SumoSprings, and went ahead and installed them before I even got my T@B (so I never towed without). The first time I hooked up, though, at the dealer, I watched the frame come down onto those springs and definitely compress them! With the springs, I sag about an inch. 

Honestly, I never thought about the warranty. The springs replace a dinky little pyramid-shaped rubber pad (with metal base) between rear axle and frame that's held onto the axle by the U-bolts. It's a very quick install and the only touchy part is making sure your U-bolts are put back on in the proper position with proper torque. 

Driving without the trailer, I never even notice the SumoSprings are there.

Hope this helps!

Horigan

GatorEgg said:

jimcenname said:

I studied mechanical engineering in college, though I am not a professional engineer. I learned in college that when you put a hole in a beam (the C-Channel functions as a "beam") it reduces the load the beam can support. 

I’m not being a smart alec.  Really.  I’m also not a mechanical engineer.  The way I justified it in my mind was I did drill a hole in the frame.  But I filled those holes very tightly with with a bolt.  It’s actually a self tapping bolt.   How does that fall on the strength lessening/ increasing meter?  And if there was a strength reducing problem there would be some warning from the sway control company.  These have been around many, many years.

When drilling a hole in the material you're reducing the tensile strength of the beam.  Tightly filling the hole with a bolt will help recover the compressive strength, but not the tensile strength.  These beams are primarily loaded in bending, so the upper half of the beam is primarily in compression and the lower half in tension. 

So the question becomes, how much margin of safety was put into the beam design/selection to account for corrosion, accidental dings, etc so that the beam can carry the load with normal wear and tear on the beam.  Since we're not reading a rash of stories about beam failures after installing these devices, the margin is probably sufficiently high, but it ultimately comes down to what the manufacturer says.

PS: I am a mechanical engineer (retired).