Lithium Battery Backup

3DogTAB

Just wondering if anyone uses a lithium battery as a backup for the primary battery once it is spent.  We have a Goal Zero Yeti 1000 with a Nomad solar panel, and in the past we have charged the Yeti with solar and then plugged our camper into the Yeti AC port as needed.  We hate that power is lost in the DC/AC conversion, so we are looking for a cable to connect the Yeti 12V output directly to the battery cables coming from the camper.  Can anyone share a source for such a cable or any other ideas?  Sorry if this issue has been covered...I've been reading the discussions for hours and cannot find anything specifically addressing this question. Thanks!

Mellow_Yellow

I use a lithium battery as my primary battery. There is no going back. It is like perpetually having a full tank of gas!

3DogTAB

Yes, I saw that.   Considering making the switch, for sure, but hoping we can find a shortcut for now. 

Denny16

Be careful the DC load of the trailer does not exceed the 12VDC output limits on the Yeti..
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@jkjenn - I think you have used a Yeti.  Any help here?

Sharon_is_SAM

@3DogTAB - I’ll bet you can attach it to the TaB 7 pin.  @rfuss928 - you have a system that uses the 7 pin - will that work with his Yeti?  

rfuss928

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@3DogTAB - I’ll bet you can attach it to the TaB 7 pin.  @rfuss928 - you have a system that uses the 7 pin - will that work with his Yeti?  

I'm not familiar with the Yeti output connection. The battery is easily accessed through the 7-pin and a socket can be wired make the connection easy.  The example shown has a SAE connection for solar or charger connection.  Pin #1 and  #4 are direct connection to the battery.

Marceline

It looks like the Yeti has a 12v Anderson powerpole output. So I think that you’d just need a cable that connects to your trailer battery (ring or clamps) and then a powerpole at the other end. If your trailer has an SAE port on the tub you could get an SAE-powerpole cord. I think that the cord should have a fuse on it. Maybe 10A since that’s the rated output for the Yeti. @Denny16?

3DogTAB

Yes, I should have mentioned the Anderson powerpole as the intended output (although the cigarette lighter output could also work).  That's exactly what we are looking for - a cable with ring or clamps connection on one end and powerpole (or cigarette lighter) on the other.  The 7-pin suggestion looks workable and I really appreciate the drawing/photo.  Maybe we will go that route. 

We found something like what we need, but the size of the Anderson connector seemed incorrect.  I thought maybe someone was already doing this and could point us to a source. 

Thanks for the suggestions - we'll keep evaluating options. 

3DogTAB

My husband continues to search online and he found this:

https://www.newegg.com/p/2S7-06CR-0K243?Description=cigarette lighter male plug adapter&cm_re=cigarette_lighter male plug adapter-_-9SIAV7UDXW3541-_-Product

Thoughts are appreciated.  We are trying to chat with Goal Zero, but no success yet. 

ReenieG

Mellow_Yellow said:

I use a lithium battery as my primary battery. There is no going back. It is like perpetually having a full tank of gas!

What size battery do you use? I'm thinking of updating my current solar banking and am just learning about how to do this. I have yet to determine exactly what I have installed which was after market but prior to my purchase. I understand the lithiums are much more powerful. TIA!

3DogTAB

Just an update...we chatted with Goal Zero and they seem to think this is a legit method, so we will order the part from newegg and see how it goes. 

Denny16

3Dog, that adapter only has a 14AWG wire and is rated for 15amps or less.  Depending on how low your TaB battery is, you could draw 20 to 30 amps total load, which would fry that small cable.  The TV 7-pin charge wire is normally a AWG 10 or 8 wire.  Solar panel connections to the trailer are also AWG 8 wire.  Your Goal Zero Yeti 1000 12VDC car plug output is only rated for 10 amps.  So if your load is 10amps or less, it will work, but not something I would try, as the TaB 12 VDC system is 20/30 amps.  

You should just use the Yeti as a stand alone unit, and not try to power your trailer’s 12VDC system with the Yeti’s 12VDC plug.  The only way this might work, is if you disconnect the trailer’s battery (a low TaB battery is just going to drain the Yeti battery trying to charge it), so it does not place a load on the Yeti, and only use it to power the TaB’s lights and perhaps the Alde 12VDC circuit (Alde on Gas only mode, and fridge on Gas mode).  Your water plump should be OK also, but watch the total load you are using at any one time.
cheers

dragonsdofly

@ReenieG, @Mellow_Yellow has a 100ah (amp hour) LiFePO (lithium iron phosphate) battery. Right now, as this type of battery becomes main stream, it is the most common size of LiFePO battery available, but other sizes can be found. Some people will advise that your converter in the trailer be changed to properly charge this type of battery, but others think the current technology in your t@b is up to the task. I am of the latter opinion, but that is a discussion for another time. -Denise

ReenieG

@dragonsdofly I've been considering the possibility of needing to upgrade my controller to the mppt type which everyone brags about. I also think a higher amperage would be best. My solar setup was previously installed but after market. I think the controller is 10 amps. Do you know what the BD factory installed controller amps are? I'll have to look when I get to the storage to double check. Thank you

CrabTab

@3DogTAB,

I believe the Anderson Power connector has a higher amperage capacity than the 12V cigarette lighter outlet. How about this Anderson to ring terminal connector?

Amazon.com: Valley Enterprises Wire Power Supply or Battery Cable with Anderson Powerpole 45 Amp Connectors and 3/8 inch Terminal Rings, 10 Gauge Wire, Length 6 Feet: Automotive

It is 6FT and 10GA, so it can carry most loads you may run from the Yeti. The only thing missing is an inline fuse, but I think the Yeti has circuit overload protection (mine is pretty new to me, so I'm not CERTAIN about that last statement).

Marceline

Goal Zero offers this cable to offer a maximum output of 40A.

dragonsdofly

@ReenieG, yes, mppt solar controllers are more efficient than the PMW type and if you upgrade your solar charging system, you may need to step up to a better controller. However, I was talking about your converter, the built in box, under the seat bench that charges the battery and sends power to your t@b systems, lights, fridge, alde and the like.  Just a misread or confusion of terms.

ReenieG

@dragonsdofly ok, so... the converter is similar to an inverter? I suppose this is another component I wasn't aware of needing changing out with a better system, re more solar and/or bigger battery bank.

pthomas745

I have  a couple of PWM controllers and one MPPT.  For a small battery that doesn't need much of a charge, I can't imagine it makes much difference.  So, the MPPT might get to full charge 5 minutes faster?  Now, if I was running a few thousand watts......sure.

The main reason for a nice controller is the ability to use the Victron app.  That would make it totally worth it.

dragonsdofly

@ReenieG, the converter in the t@b takes the 110/120v ac (alternating or household current) and converts it to 12v dc (direct or battery current). Thus the converter takes household current and converts it so it can charge your battery and run the dc appliances and lights. An inverter does the opposite, taking 12v battery type electricity and inverting it back into 110 ac or household current, allowing household type appliances such as microwaves, hair dryers and coffee makers to be powered off of the battery or battery bank. Both of these processes are done at the expense of power loss. However, when converting from household or shore power, you are using electricity from an almost inexhaustible power grid supply. When inverting battery electricity into the household type, the power loss is from a finite power source (battery) and the power loss while inverting can quickly exhaust your limited battery electricity.  Much better to convert than invert, but we do both sometimes while camping. -Denise

Denny16

CrabTab said:

@3DogTAB,

I believe the Anderson Power connector has a higher amperage capacity than the 12V cigarette lighter outlet. How about this Anderson to ring terminal connector?

Amazon.com: Valley Enterprises Wire Power Supply or Battery Cable with Anderson Powerpole 45 Amp Connectors and 3/8 inch Terminal Rings, 10 Gauge Wire, Length 6 Feet: Automotive

It is 6FT and 10GA, so it can carry most loads you may run from the Yeti. The only thing missing is an inline fuse, but I think the Yeti has circuit overload protection (mine is pretty new to me, so I'm not CERTAIN about that last statement).

CrabTaB, you would think the Anderson connector would be rated higher, but in fact, it is rated the same as the Auto type connector on the Yeti 1000 unit l looked up.  Yes, the Anderson connector can handle more current, if connected with the correct gauge wire, but on the Yeti, is is 

Marceline posted a Yeti accessory cable that will combine the various Yetim12 VDC outputs to get a max of 40 amps.  You cloudless use the Anderson and Auto power point outputs to get 20 amps.
cheers

Denny16

ReenieG said:

@dragonsdofly I've been considering the possibility of needing to upgrade my controller to the mppt type which everyone brags about. I also think a higher amperage would be best. My solar setup was previously installed but after market. I think the controller is 10 amps. Do you know what the BD factory installed controller amps are? I'll have to look when I get to the storage to double check. Thank you

The TaB 320 uses a Victron Blue MPPT 10 solar controller,which is good for 100-150 watts of solar installed on the TaB320.  The TaB400 has the MPPT15 for its. 190/200 watts panel.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

I think the 400 panels are now 160 watts, no?

CrabTab

Denny16 said:

CrabTab said:

@3DogTAB,

I believe the Anderson Power connector has a higher amperage capacity than the 12V cigarette lighter outlet. How about this Anderson to ring terminal connector?

Amazon.com: Valley Enterprises Wire Power Supply or Battery Cable with Anderson Powerpole 45 Amp Connectors and 3/8 inch Terminal Rings, 10 Gauge Wire, Length 6 Feet: Automotive

It is 6FT and 10GA, so it can carry most loads you may run from the Yeti. The only thing missing is an inline fuse, but I think the Yeti has circuit overload protection (mine is pretty new to me, so I'm not CERTAIN about that last statement).

CrabTaB, you would think the Anderson connector would be rated higher, but in fact, it is rated the same as the Auto type connector on the Yeti 1000 unit l looked up.  Yes, the Anderson connector can handle more current, if connected with the correct gauge wire, but on the Yeti, is is 

Marceline posted a Yeti accessory cable that will combine the various Yetim12 VDC outputs to get a max of 40 amps.  You cloudless use the Anderson and Auto power point outputs to get 20 amps.
cheers

Yep @Denny16, the  Yeti 1000 does have those tech specs. I based my comment on my knowledge of my Yeti 1500

12V car port (output): 12V, up to 13A (160W max), regulated
12V High Power Port (output): 12V, up to 30A (360W max), regulated (front face/under lid)

Glad you had the free time to research...

Denny16

Yes, that makes more sense having more wattage/amps on the Anderson High Powered output.  But the OP referenced having a Yeti 1000, so I used the specs for that unit.
cheers

3DogTAB

Thanks, Denny16, Marceline and everyone for all of your insights.  When we are without shore power we do limit our draw as suggested above - propane refrigerator (so only small draw), limited lights, water pump.  Perhaps we will continue to use the 110 outlet on the Yeti for now.  Just trying to figure out a simple work around. So many ports on the Yeti - want to make the most of them!

jkjenn

Sorry I am late to the party, but I would go with an Amderson cable and connect a quick connect via bus bars to the T@b battery bank.

Edit: Scratch that. You need something to regulate the charge, so either some type of adapter for the 7 pin connector or use a smart charger from the Yeti AC outlet. 

dsfdogs

I bought a Noco 10amp charger to plug into the Yeti 1000 AC outlet to recharge the T@B lithium battery. (I originally had the 7.5 amp Noco but it wouldn't charge the lithium to 100%). The idea was it is more efficient at charging than the T@B (convertor) while plugged into the Yeti. 

ReenieG

@dragonsdofly thank you for the explanation! That really helped.

dragonsdofly

@ReenieG, good to know, and glad it helped.