2021 T@B S Boondock Victron Charging State Off

aaron

Hello all,
I just purchased a used T@B and the Victron 75/10 isn't charging the battery during the day.  The batteries are two 6 volt Trojan T105 flooded lead acid wired in series.  

The battery State on the Victron remains off.  I've checked the fuses from the solar panel to the Victron and the fuse from the Victron to the battery and those are both good.  The Victron app indicates there is Voltage and the battery is at 12.1 so it defiantly isn't full. 

When I click on the App it says that the battery charge is off for reason 1.  Insufficient voltage or short circuit.  

I reached out to NuCamp and they indicated that because the Victron needs to be +5Vdc over the battery voltage to start charging and the solar panel max voltage is 16.42 that the battery voltage would need to be 11.42 or lower for charging to start.  This doesn't seem right, as that would require the battery to go to 0 charge before charging starts.  

Any thoughts on why the Victron remains in the off charging state?  Has this come up before?  Any suggestions on troubleshooting steps I could take?  

Sincerely,
Aaron 

ChrisFix

The charging will not begin without the +5Vdc over battery voltage - it is how Victron has programmed their charge controllers. The reason has to do with the efficiency of charging and having enough actual voltage over the battery's voltage to sustain charging.
Here is a YouTube Victron produced explaining this exact thing - because it does come up pretty often as most of the other controllers don't do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTMVmW7GTus

aaron

Thanks ChrisFix. I wonder if others are finding that their solar panels never charger their batteries?  Based on the solar panel specs if feels like this would be the case for me. 

AnOldUR

Check that charging is not turned off within the app.

CrabTab

@aaron, Is 16.42V that you mentioned the spec on the panel or the reading you are getting from the Victron? That number seems low.

If it is from the Victron reading, are the panels in full, direct sun? My panels (non factory) all put out over 18V when in direct, full sun. When the panels are partially shaded, cloudy day, etc. I get less voltage like you are reporting.

Hope this helps...

aaron

Thanks AnOldUR and CrabTab!

Charging isn't turned off on the App.  I double checked that.  

16.42 is the spec on the panel.  See attached spec sheet.  

SusanD

@aaron Hi Aaron, this is a common problem!  Checkout my post from earlier this summer.  Boondocking in my Tab is awesome but you're still camping and preserving electrical power is the name of the game.  When you're hooked up like I am now for 3 weeks, then it's luxury, an apartment on wheels!

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14045/solar-not-charging-battery#latest

aaron

Thanks @SusanD. It’s weird to me that the solar system would have been designed this way. The max voltage for the panel is under what is required to start charging the batteries and keep them healthy. 

CharlieRN

I have a 2021 320 BD with what I think is the same factory solar package. The Victron 75/10 charging history shows a max output consistently at 18+ volts while in my driveway (northeast orientation, so not really full sun).

Assuming your panels is the same as mine, it should be capable of more than 16.42 volts in full sun. It may be worth reaching out to the panel maker (which may be Sunflare, but you should be able to search the forum to find out for sure) to see if they can help.

pthomas745

Are you trying to get a Victron voltage reading while the trailer battery switch is on?  If so, and anything is on in the trailer, you may be trying to read a battery that is "in use", and not "rested".  No matter how sophisticated the device used to measure voltage, if something is draining the battery while you are taking a reading, that reading is "false."  Try again with the battery switch off, preferably either with "Charger Off" in the settings, or after the sun goes down (making sure no charge is coming in from the solar panels.)  See if that changes your voltage reading to a more "rested" level.

And: what else is your Victron app showing?  What is your history page showing?  On the status page, what is the "State" showing for the battery?  Bulk, float or Absorption?  All this data will also show you a lot about what is happening.  Send some screen shots (properly sized, of course!).

CrabTab

aaron said:

16.42 is the spec on the panel.  See attached spec sheet.  

@aaron What voltage are you seeing for the panel when looking at the Victron App?
If you see the Victron showing better than the 16.42V (i.e. 18V) on the panel, you may have a wiring issue.

If so, here's some 'bench racing' type diagnostic thoughts:

*I've read on the forum that on occasion the system is mis-wired at the factory (positive and negative wires switched between the panel and the Victron). I don't know what your Victron panel voltage reading would be if this was the issue.

*I experienced a wire work loose from the Victron and had a lack of charge that mystified me once (Full voltage reading on the panel but no charge happening). Check the screws on the Victron.

Not saying these are your issues, but something to look at...

AnOldUR

CrabTab said:
I experienced a wire work loose from the Victron and had a lack of charge that mystified me once...
Not saying these are your issues, but something to look at...

Had the same thing happen to me. Gave a light tug on each wire going into the Victron. One of them slid right out as if it was never tightened.

Denny16

I would definitely check the wire connections on the Victron MPPT controller and along the way to the battery,  any loose connection is going to act like a resistor and reduce current flow.
cheers

aaron

Thanks all for your help with this.  I removed both wires that go into the Victron controller from the panels last night and then put them back in and snugged down the screw.  We'll see if that makes a difference.  The app read a V max yesterday of 12.13V of solar (cloudy day).  I don't think the wires are reversed unless they complete reversed the red and white wire.  The wire with the fuse is red and going into the positive solar terminal.  Plus, I am getting some voltage.  I assume I wouldn't get voltage if the wires were reversed?  

Also, I'm attaching a few screenshots of the app screen.  

Thank again everyone!

Aaron 

ChrisFix

@aaron
You are correct, you would not have any voltage reading if the solar panel was wired backwards to the Victron controller.
You should however be seeing readings in the 18V range if you have a "12V" solar panel. 
Most solar panels will still produce near their full voltage even under very minimal sun conditions (they'll just produce very little amperage or watts).

pthomas745

It looks like there has been zero solar gain for a while, and the battery hasn't seemed to drain much at all.  This is a case for a multimeter: measure the input from the panel with a multimeter at the solar controller (the little screws that hold the wires). 

We have seen several panel installs that were incomplete.

aaron

I just removed the solar + and - wire from the charge controller and measured with multimeter. Got around 12 volts. I also measured with multimeter when they were connected at the screws. Same thing. Seems like either the panel is bad or the wires running from the panel to the charge controller are bad. Im thinking of next steps for determining which one. All the wires are in the wall and ceiling. Not sure how to go about this. The only thing with easy access is the fuse wire on the + solar cable. I would have to cut the cable before the fuse cable to eliminate that I think. 

ChrisFix

@aaron
You're correct, there is either a problem with your panel or the wiring from the panel to the controller. 
The open circuit voltage of your panel is 21.25V (panel voltage without a load), and you should be seeing in the mid to high teens most of the time. That panel should work perfectly with the Victron and has plenty of voltage to achieve the +5Vdc charging voltage required.
And just BTW, SunFlare are high quality solar panels, not withstanding that yours may have a defect - but my bet would be on the wiring. A bad crimp connection creating high resistance for example.
This is on a 2021 T@B?

aaron

Yes, it’s a 2021 T@B. Do you know how to access the connections in the roof or walls?

I could start with the fuse wire. Cut that and recrimp it. It looks solid but that would be the easiest place to start.   

aaron

Interesting….. The panel is in full sun and the voltage is at 4 volts. Earlier in shade it was 12. Would bad wiring cause the voltage to go down in full sun?  

ChrisFix

@aaron
I'm not familiar with the 320's wiring. 
Is the 4V measured directly via multimeter or via the Victron app?
The voltage dropping sounds like a bad solar panel...but unfortunately you can't rule out just a bad connection.

CrabTab

@aaron

Shouldn't your T@B still be under factory warranty if it is a 2021?  Or is the warranty not transferable?

Maybe contact the factory with your VIN number to find out.

warranty@nucamprv.com

aaron

I’m hoping it is still under warranty. I have the card and it says it is transferrable. 

That’s the voltage at the screws on the solar controller with the multimeter.

Thanks for all of your help!  I’m going to reach out to Nucamp and see what they say about the warranty. 

slmarchap

Hi Aaron,
What you are describing is eerily similar to what happened to me with our, "new to us" 2020 400 BL.  I assumed that as a first time RV owner that I was at fault for not managing my usage.  After a great deal of head scratching the panel was tested by my RV repair techs and the panel was taking in only 4w in direct CO sun.  Until they put the new panel on, they assumed that it was a faulty panel.  Well, to everyone's surprise when they put the adhesive on the new panel to lay it on top of the burned out panel (to save the roof), they noticed that the shipping plastic was NEVER removed from the original panel!  I will save you all of the drama of the time invested and hoops I needed to jump through to get the extended warranty finally settled, but I LOVE my new panel!  Works great and the APP doesn't read ZERO anymore!
Long shot for sure....but hey, climb up a ladder and try to peel the protective film off......
Can't make this stuff up!   

Good luck!

aaron

@slmarchap You definitely can’t make this stuff up.  Got your post and immediately went out to check and what do you know.  The shipping plastic was on mine too!  Peeled it all off.  Since it sat on there in the sun and weather for a year and a half, it took a while to get off.  I’ll report back in the morning when the sun comes up, but I’m guessing that was the problem the whole time. I can’t thank you enough for the tip.  Cheers!

pthomas745

Holy $%&^$! 

CrabTab

Wow @slmarchap and @aaron !  The real discouraging thought to me is that you know both of the original owners were charged a dealer prep fee and should have been given a walkthrough verifying the systems before the T@Bs left the lot when new. No way anyone could've guessed that was your issue.

CanadianTabber

Now we all scramble out to our Tabs to check......

aaron

Caution - I just got off the phone with Sunflare.  The manufacture of the solar panel and they say the protecting layer is needed and should not be removed. They say it is a UV protective layer to keep the panel from degrading in the sun. 

ChrisFix

@aaron
So the big question is now that you've removed it, does it work?

slmarchap

My original panel was not a Sunflare.  (Correction....Not sure if it was a Sunflare.) I cannot comment on that brand.  The techs told me that the film peeled right off and that they had never seen anything like it before.......
(Sorry for the confusion of the post...I was thinking of the NEW panel which is a Xantrex 220W.)