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2024 TAB 400 factory solar ?

HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
edited February 17 in Battery/Electrical & Solar
New here and looks like a lot of very informed owners.  Wife and I looked at a TAB 400 Black Canyon yesterday that had the Lithium 400ah upgrade.  I'm familiar with solar installs having done a 48v install at our offgrid place.

I cannot find info on what is included with the "convenience package" option that comes with one 100ah Battleborn and the 1,200 watt AIMS inverter so I thought I would ask the experts here.  I don't do Facebook but could use my wife's account if all the info is there.  7k is a steep price for the lithium package when I could probably put in as good or better for half that price.

- Does the 1,200 watt inverter charge the battery or does the WYCO converter charge the battery?
- The Black Canyon package has 620 watts of solar so I assume it has the same Victron charge controller as the lithium package?
- Dealer told me the 1,200 watt inverter powers one 120v outlet inside the TAB.  How do they wire this to isolate the one outlet from the Converter?

The 2024 manual only has info on the pricey lithium package.  It doesn't have any info on the 1,200 watt inverter that comes with the "convenience package".  Anyone know if there is a separate manual?

Basically I'm trying to determine how much work/cost is involved to upgrade the solar to as good or better than the 7k lithium upgrade.

Thanks for any advice.
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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,987
    There are two "packages". One is the all out 400 amp hour lithium setups with the Victron Multiplus charger/converter, etc.

    The "normal" lithium package would have what you are describing: the 1200 watt inverter (AIMS), the WFCO converter. 

    This thread has pictures and descriptions of both of the packages for a 2023 400.  There are comments from owners who opted to "install their own". 

    This link goes to the AIMS page that has a manual for the 1200 watt inverter that was installed in various 400 models the last couple of years.  It may not be the exact model that is installed now, but it will get you started on what you are asking.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • Yoshi_TABYoshi_TAB Member Posts: 440
    Hi,

    Here is a link which shows what's included: 

    TAB 400 Teardrop Campers – The Largest Teardrop Camper (nucamprv.com)

    The Convenience Package has:
    • 310-watt Solar Panel
    • External Solar Port
    • Intelligent Battery Detection Converter
    • 100 Ah 12-volt Lithium Battery
    • 1,200-watt Power Inverter
    • Bluetooth® Battery Monitor Smartshunt

    If you upgrade to Lithium Battery Package you get:
    • 400 Ah 12-volt Lithium Battery Bank w/ Internal Heat
    • 3,000-watt MultiPlus Inverter/Charger
    (eliminates the AIMS inverter and adds 300 Ah of battery).  The multiplus is a combo inverter/charger/transfer switch


    If you upgrade to Black Canyon you get:
    • Additional 310-watt Solar Panel (total of 620 watts)
    • Holding Tank Heaters
    • Under-Glow Lights

    For the Convenience package level and the 1,200 inverter; the WFCO would charge your batteries.  An inverter does not charge your batteries but converts 12V to 110 AC power.  

    The AIMS inverter has a built in transfer switch to automatically supply 110V power to the one outlet.  I would hope all the outlets would power with the Multiplus (but I'm not sure)

    If you ROM out the cost of  components, .  4 Battle born approx. $3200; Multiplus : $1200; say $300 for wiring and fuzing, 20- 25 hours to install at $75/ hr. plus profit  To me the $7000 is not that far off.  One could debate the labor numbers..but $7K is not that far off IMO. 


     (Others will chime in) but IMO if you are comfortable doing this work you could install that capability (using Battleborn) and save maybe 25-30%.  Having the pictures in Paul's post almost does the design work for you.   You could use other brand batteries and save even more.     I installed a similar system   my TAB 320 for 1/2 the cost NuCamp charges for the TAB 320 package. The intangible factor is I  know that quality of the install and the selection of fuses and wiring is beyond just the minimum.   You could also do more than just one outlet for the inverter.   Best wishes.
    2021 TAB 320 BD
    2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee
    Southern Maryland
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    Thanks for the great info guys.  I've been kicking around the possibility of even a 24v system but probably couldn't fit the batteries.

    Is there an easy wire route going from the inverter location to the Converter.  The shore power must go to the converter first with just the convenience package.  My dealer thinks it is routed under the bed on the way to the converter so it would be easy to install the Multiplus.  Then I guess 10 ga Romex would need to go from the Multiplus to the converter.

    If I did this I'm not sure I would use Battleborns.  I've read they don't charge when the heater is activated and no way to calculate the heat load through the shunt.

    I'm thinking four of Will Prowse's budget favorite batteries and a seed heater under them.  Then selll the Battleborn for $500 or keep it for another project.

    I use a seed heater set to 50 degrees with our 48v offgrid bank.  It's probably not needed since I insulated the battery box with 4" foam but it's cheap insurance.
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    edited February 17
    Two of these 230ah batteries and the Multiplus would put the entire project well under 3k (excluding the cost of wire).  I can make my own battery cables.

    https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-230ah-plus-lifepo4-battery-built-in-200a-bms-max-2944wh-energy?currency=USD&variant=43846095339740&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=a05d7c18f02e&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAz8GuBhCxARIsAOpzk8z5LC7AwYY0PwW58n1qQLj3hQ9uQqQM5XFU5LFmn4sCC1Ut6ilBKcQaAiQOEALw_wcB

    Now I just need to convince my wife that we need the camper.  She doesn't retire for three years so won't be camping a ton.  My main argument is our barndominium in Montana only has 800 sq.ft. of living space with only one bedroom. It has 1,600 sq.ft of garage space and was designed to hold an RV.  A 42k TAB 400 surely is much cheaper than putting a small tiny house on a slab for guests.  And you can't take a tiny house camping.
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  • berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,078
    @Hammick you are correct on the cost of the tiny house and not being able to take it camping!  We live in a 1000 sqft house with one bathroom, our bedroom and a tv room with a pull out couch.  We use our 400 as a guest space when we have visitors and they all love staying in it.  It's a good option! 
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    edited February 18
    Been reading up on the Renology Rego pure sine wave inverter-charger/transfer switch.  3000w continuous with 9000w peak with built in display, bluetooth and remote switch.  It's $760.  Can be paired with the Renology One Core ($130) which is a bluetooth battery display with RV leveling built in.  It also has Wifi so you can monitor your system from anywhere.  A shunt option is promised soon.

    So for $2,130 a TAB 400 can have 460ah of battery with a 3000w inverter/charger with remote monitoring/configuration.  Pretty reasonable and you will have a 1,200w AIMS inverter and 100ah Battleborn to play with or sell.
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  • elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 421
    @hammick I did a 4 Battleborn install on my ‘23 Tab 400. My total cost of parts (3 additional 100ahr BB, Multiplus, smartshunt, additional solar charger and external connector, wiring and supplies) was $4500.

    There is no doubt that it could be done for substantially less, however, I appreciate the track record of the Victron products (Multiplus, Smart Shunt, MPPT solar charger) and my experience with Battleborn has been extremely positive. As a newbie to this all I consulted on a number of occasions with Battleborn tech support and they were very quick to respond and very helpful.

    i wanted a setup that I didn’t have to fiddle with once I got it up and running. A little over a year later, 15,000+ miles and it has performed flawlessly.
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (23,000+ miles) / 2024 Toyota Sequoia
    2024 - 3 Trips - 35 nights - 9 National Parks, 3 National Forests
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    edited February 18
    elbolillo said:
    @hammick I did a 4 Battleborn install on my ‘23 Tab 400. My total cost of parts (3 additional 100ahr BB, Multiplus, smartshunt, additional solar charger and external connector, wiring and supplies) was $4500.

    There is no doubt that it could be done for substantially less, however, I appreciate the track record of the Victron products (Multiplus, Smart Shunt, MPPT solar charger) and my experience with Battleborn has been extremely positive. As a newbie to this all I consulted on a number of occasions with Battleborn tech support and they were very quick to respond and very helpful.

    i wanted a setup that I didn’t have to fiddle with once I got it up and running. A little over a year later, 15,000+ miles and it has performed flawlessly.

    Congrats on a great setup.  Do you have 310kw or 620kw of solar?  I'm not sure if the Black Canyon option is worth it.  Dealer claims it is the best bang for the buck option.  I'd like the tank heaters as we have no issues with cold camping.  Not sure how hard they are to add later but I'd rather have them factory.
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  • elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 421
    @hammick The ‘23 Tab 400 came with a 180w solar panel on the roof. I don’t know what brand they have switched to for the ‘24 model year Tabs but they are definitely higher wattage. Along with the rooftop solar I have an external 220w suitcase panel that combined with the rooftop solar keeps us charging along. 
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (23,000+ miles) / 2024 Toyota Sequoia
    2024 - 3 Trips - 35 nights - 9 National Parks, 3 National Forests
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    elbolillo said:
    @hammick The ‘23 Tab 400 came with a 180w solar panel on the roof. I don’t know what brand they have switched to for the ‘24 model year Tabs but they are definitely higher wattage. Along with the rooftop solar I have an external 220w suitcase panel that combined with the rooftop solar keeps us charging along. 
    No idea who makes it but NuCamp says they are 310w panels.  I don't think it would be easy to add a second one if you didn't get the Black Canyon package which includes it.  My dealer said he doesn't install solar panels.  I'm guessing the '24 TAB 400 is not prewired for the 2nd panel.  Would probably require drilling a hole in the roof and figuring out how to parallel the panels.  Would require fishing the wire behind the fridge somehow or removing the ceiling liner.
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  • Busted_11BBusted_11B Member Posts: 16
    I am looking at the same and wondering what a fair price would be for a Black Canyon and Lithium upgrade Tab 400 would be. MSRP is way too high but where is the happy spot...  If you figure it out please let us know.
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    On RV trader it's hard to know what packages the TAB 400s have.  The dealer closest to me in Missouri has these prices:

    400 Boondock:  $41,270
    400 Boondock Black Canyon:  $42,825
    400 Boondock Black Canyon 400ah Lithium:  $49,200

    No idea what people hare paying.  Is it OK to start a thread with what people paid?
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    We saw a photo of a dark gray one.  It looks really nice.  Is this paint any different than the light gray option that isn't an upcharge?  Wondering if the dark gray would be more prone to rock chips or is the light gray paint as well?  If the light gray is mixed into the gelcoat we would go that route rather than paint.
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  • berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,078
    If we were to get a new 400 now I'd probably opt for the Black Canyon package and add a second 100 ah battery to the stock battery system.  I most likely would not get the full lithium upgrade unless I could really haggle down the price of the trailer with that option.  Unless you really feel the need to be able to run the air conditioner and your microwave, if you opted for that, while off grid for us it's just overkill.  Two lithium batteries with the extra solar would be fine to run the refrigerator and whatever other minimal electrical needs we have when camping.   We also have no need for a 3000 watt inverter when camping.  The 1200 watt inverter does a great job running our small coffee pot and our blue ray player.  But everyone has different needs and desires when camping.  I know there are tons of variables involved but I am curious about any real world results of running the air conditioner off of the full lithium package and the ability of the solar to recharge the 400 ah of batteries.   

    As far as the dark gray sidewalls I do agree that it looks really cool.  As far as I know it's the same paint just a darker color.  Maybe it's an upcharge since it's not too common and it's a special order?  And with the way the T@b heats up in the sun I'd go with the light gray or the white sidewalls.  We have the light gray ones and don't feel too much heat transfer in the walls.  However the roof, even with it's light color is a different story.  
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    bergger said:
    If we were to get a new 400 now I'd probably opt for the Black Canyon package and add a second 100 ah battery to the stock battery system.  I most likely would not get the full lithium upgrade unless I could really haggle down the price of the trailer with that option.  Unless you really feel the need to be able to run the air conditioner and your microwave, if you opted for that, while off grid for us it's just overkill.  Two lithium batteries with the extra solar would be fine to run the refrigerator and whatever other minimal electrical needs we have when camping.   We also have no need for a 3000 watt inverter when camping.  The 1200 watt inverter does a great job running our small coffee pot and our blue ray player.  But everyone has different needs and desires when camping.  I know there are tons of variables involved but I am curious about any real world results of running the air conditioner off of the full lithium package and the ability of the solar to recharge the 400 ah of batteries.   

    As far as the dark gray sidewalls I do agree that it looks really cool.  As far as I know it's the same paint just a darker color.  Maybe it's an upcharge since it's not too common and it's a special order?  And with the way the T@b heats up in the sun I'd go with the light gray or the white sidewalls.  We have the light gray ones and don't feel too much heat transfer in the walls.  However the roof, even with it's light color is a different story.  
    Thanks for your thoughts.  Is it true that just one outlet is hot with the 1,200 inverter on the 400?  If so, is it the kitchen outlet or the passenger side bed outlet?
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  • RTWCTSRTWCTS Member Posts: 141
    Hammick said:
    ... Is it true that just one outlet is hot with the 1,200 inverter on the 400?  If so, is it the kitchen outlet or the passenger side bed outlet?
    In our 400 (2023) the 1200W inverter will power the 120V outlet in the cubby and the one at the foot of the bed.
    2023 TAB 400 Boondock
    2018 T@B 320 Sold
    Racing the Wind and Chasing the Sun
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  • elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 421
    @bergger I cannot speak to the running of the air conditioner with the inverter, as we have not seen a need for that. However, with the 180w rooftop solar and a 220w solar suitcase we have been able to keep our 400ah of batteries topped off quite well. We work while traveling so we are charging electronics and using our Starlink on a regular basis. The lowest we went down on a 3 week trip without any electrical connections was 62%.
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (23,000+ miles) / 2024 Toyota Sequoia
    2024 - 3 Trips - 35 nights - 9 National Parks, 3 National Forests
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  • berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,078
    In our 2021 the only outlet powered by the inverter is in the cubby in the bedroom.  Sounds like sometime after 2021 they added an outlet at the foot of the bed near the television and the kitchen and wired it to the inverter.   We run an extension cord from the cubby to the kitchen to run our coffee pot.  We tuck it down along the mattress so it's out of the way.  But it would be nice to have an outlet where the newer models have one.  
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    bergger said:
    In our 2021 the only outlet powered by the inverter is in the cubby in the bedroom.  Sounds like sometime after 2021 they added an outlet at the foot of the bed near the television and the kitchen and wired it to the inverter.   We run an extension cord from the cubby to the kitchen to run our coffee pot.  We tuck it down along the mattress so it's out of the way.  But it would be nice to have an outlet where the newer models have one.  
    If you can install a household outlet putting an additional outlet in your TAB would be pretty easy and cost less than $50
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  • berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,078
    That might be something to look into.  I've never looked at the inverter close enough to see how the outlet is wired into it.  I'd love to place one at the foot of the bed where the newer 400s have one.  
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    bergger said:
    That might be something to look into.  I've never looked at the inverter close enough to see how the outlet is wired into it.  I'd love to place one at the foot of the bed where the newer 400s have one.  
    Easiest way would be to just run a wire from the closest outlet that is powered off the inverter.  No different than multiple outlets on a home circuit.
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  • berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 1,078
    Electrical is my weak point.  But that sounds super easy.  I thought I'd have to mess with the inverter.  I think I have a new project to complete this spring. Thanks!
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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  • elbolilloelbolillo Member Posts: 421
    bergger said:
    Electrical is my weak point.  But that sounds super easy.  I thought I'd have to mess with the inverter.  I think I have a new project to complete this spring. Thanks!
    As easy as running wire from one outlet to another one. Easy peasy. 
    _____________________________________________________
    Ken / 2023 Tab 400 “La Bolita” (23,000+ miles) / 2024 Toyota Sequoia
    2024 - 3 Trips - 35 nights - 9 National Parks, 3 National Forests
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    edited February 20
    You will need some 14ga Romex.  It is white (12ga is yellow) and will have a black wire (hot), white wire (neutral) and ground (bare copper).  After you tighten the screws tighten them a little more about five minutes later.
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  • RTWCTSRTWCTS Member Posts: 141
    edited February 20
    Hammick said:
    You will need some 14ga Romex.  It is white (20ga is yellow) and will have a black wire (hot), white wire (neutral) and ground (bare copper).  After you tighten the screws tighten them a little more about five minutes later.
    Isn’t yellow Romex  a 12 gauge? I have never seen a 20 gauge Romex (smallest I am aware that NEC allows is 14).
    2023 TAB 400 Boondock
    2018 T@B 320 Sold
    Racing the Wind and Chasing the Sun
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    RTWCTS said:
    Hammick said:
    You will need some 14ga Romex.  It is white (20ga is yellow) and will have a black wire (hot), white wire (neutral) and ground (bare copper).  After you tighten the screws tighten them a little more about five minutes later.
    Isn’t yellow Romex  a 12 gauge? I have never seen a 20 gauge Romex (smallest I am aware that NEC allows is 14).
    Sorry I meant 12ga.  Post edited.
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  • HammickHammick Member Posts: 80
    We decided to buy a lightly used '23 TAB 400.  It has the 400ah Lithium/Multiplus package that was installed at the NuCamp factory after the purchase.  The upgrade included a solar port and the invoice has an MPPT 75/10 listed.  The trailer should have come with an MPPT 75/15 charging the single Battleborn.  I'm assuming NuCamp installed an MPPT 75/10 for the solar port and left the 75/15 intact for the roof solar?  Can anyone with a '23 and the Lithium upgrade confirm?  Won't get the trailer for another week so can't confirm myself.

    Thanks.
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  • BaileyBailey Member Posts: 38
    We just bought new 400 Cany package, w the 4 lithium batteries. Just figuring things out, had a question since we dry camp. Is it difficult to put in phone charger outlets into the bed cubby, running only on the 4 lithium batteries? And I liked the dark gray color too, they wanted an extra 500 for it, we chose a light gray, no extra cost.
    2024 Tab 400 Boondock, Oregon
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  • Busted_11BBusted_11B Member Posts: 16
    Will a multi plug not work for what you are trying to do? 
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  • TimberjackTimberjack Member Posts: 3
    Been reading all your excellent advice. I'm looking at a 2021 400 with some nice extras and a 2022 400 with no real extras but as I understand, is lithium ready. I would upgrade the 2021 to lithium. My question is how much in terms of cost and labor is the lithium ready system of the 2022 worth? Is there an advantage to me upgrading the 2021 over the 2022? 
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