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Entire new battery and solar system

Alan57Alan57 Member Posts: 15
edited September 25 in Battery/Electrical & Solar
New to camping and just purchased a 2017 Tab 320 Outback and planning a two month road trip traveling the States.  Most all of the time I will be staying overnights without shore power.  Ideally I would like to be able each evening to power a tv, lights, and the fan. Currently in place is the factory SAE port and 100 ah lead acid battery. There is a factory luggage rack with spare tire mounted on the rear.  Mainly need to charge when driving during the day so that I have power at night. I am not technically inclined, but I am attention detailed and able to follow instructions.  I need help in designing the ideal system that would have solar panels mounted on the camper. Specifics as to brands and size of all the necessary components, installation from start to finish, and placement would be greatly appreciated  Accompanying pictures even better!  Before I posted, I scanned the first 20 pages in Battery/Electrical & Solar and did not find a post that was comprehensive enough.  If you know of one that exists, please point me in that direction. I know this is a big ask, and sincerely appreciate the help.
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  • Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,412
    Assuming you'll be in transit during each day when the sun is up, you'll arrive at the campsite with a depleted battery because the Norcold frig will use more "juice" than your tow vehicle can replenish when the Norcold is on 12 volt.  A solar suitcase would not work if the sun is fading when you make camp.  The only option is to use a generator to top off your battery for the evening.  Running the A/C off the battery is not feasible.  There are some new battery packs on the market that may solve your problem.  Hopefully someone that owns one will chime in.
    2016 Outback 320
    2024 Ford F150 Supercrew short bed.
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  • HoriganHorigan Member Posts: 779
    That’s not been my experience if the frig is a two way compressor frig. While on the road, my battery charges from the solar while the frig is running, and I don’t charge from the tow vehicle. If it’s a three way frig, your probably right. 

    @Alan57, I would look at Renogy flexible panels and see if you can fit their 200W panels on either side of the fan, front and back. With the rack in back you may be able to only fit a 100W. You don’t want the rack to shade the panel.  Replace battery with a 100 or 200ah Li battery. Add a Victron BMV and solar charger, and possibly a dedicated Li AC charger. Then get a Zamp standalone panel, as big as you can conveniently store. We have a 40W. 

    This fall I’ll be replacing our five year old 100W panels on our 400 for 200W panels. 
    Rich
    2019 T@b 400
    2013 Toyota Highlander 3.5L V6
    Bellingham WA
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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    I have a 2017 Outback.  3 way fridge was installed. As long as your fridge runs on propane, your battery issues are greatly simplified, since a propane fridge does not use much battery power.  But: running it off a battery, such as when you are driving, will use 16 amps per hour.  Which, in technical terms, is a lot.  Not many vehicles these days do a good job of charging a battery while driving.  So: how is that three way fridge working?  Does it work on propane?  If not...that will have to be dealt with on a power management basis.
    Before my fridge decided not to work on propane, I had the "stock" 80 amp hour battery, which provided a "usable" 40 amp hours.  I used a 100 watt portable Renogy panel, several no-name solar controllers, and the various cables to wire them to the SAE port on the trailer.  This provided me more than enough battery and solar input to do what I wanted, including running/charging laptops, charging camera batteries, etc.
    What I did purchase, and what should be on your shopping list is: a Victron shunt. 
    I did upgrade my battery in 2022 to a 100 amp hour lithium battery.  I made no other changes to the trailer's "converter", and simply re-programmed my solar controller to charge a lithium battery.  My battery usable amp hours moved from 40 amp hours to around 90 amp hours.  When my propane side of my fridge decided to stop working, I purchased a small 12V fridge that can run from the battery in my car, or from the 12V ports in the trailer.  The 12V fridge I have uses about 1.5 amps per hour, or about 30 amp hours a day.  (Most of the 2 way fridges you will see discussed in these groups use "about" the same amount of power).  In my case, the addition of the lithium battery helped ease that move from the propane fridge to the 12V fridge and its much higher power needs.
    Last year, I swapped out my 100 watt solar panel for a 200 watt "suitcase" type panel.  This provides faster charging of the battery. A 100 watt panel, in a lab, might produce 8 amps of charging.   A 200 watt panel, about 16.  Real world numbers are less of course, but the 200 watt panel was another good improvement.  I can now handle that portable fridge easily, and I will eventually replace the non-working Norcold for a 12V fridge.
    So: a lot depends on your propane capabilities of your fridge.

    You will find it infinitely easier to use portable panels instead of mounting them to the roof.  But, lots of owners have done this.  Keep in mind: as soon as the tiniest bit of shade hits those panels....and owners love to park in the shade.....the rooftop solar input decreases dramatically.

    This thread, from almost 8 years ago! now, is still one of the best planned solar installs.  There is lots of good advice in the owner's description of the items you need to think about.  
    There are other panel installs like the one above, with are more recent, using newer panels. 

    Solar and battery questions/discussions are pretty normal here, so do not hesitate to ask questions.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • MarcelineMarceline Member Posts: 1,695
    edited September 25
    The guys at Sun Powered Yachts were very kind and helpful when I added solar to my 2013 T@B CSS a few years ago. They helped me figure out exactly what I'd need. Victron HQ sent me to them way back when they were getting ready to put the SmartShunt on the market. From what I've seen, SPY is better at this than most of the people in the RV industry. 
    I'd suggest that you do something like what's shown in the schematic here:
    If you want to have portable panels as well, you'd need to install a second controller for that. Unfortunately Sun Powered Yachts doesn't sell portable panels. I got the Victron equipment, breakers, and wiring from them and bought a portable panel elsewhere (Costco).
    San Francisco Bay Area
    2013 CS-S us@gi
    2015 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner Double Cab
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  • Alan57Alan57 Member Posts: 15
    I appreciate the responses and gained some knowledge, but am still in the dark. I would like to get as much power as reasonably possible to power the tv, fan, and lights each night. Most of the time will be driving during the day. Seldom ever have shore power. How about suggestions for plug and play solar kits and a corresponding battery? Tire rack on back. Is a 200 amp lithium battery doable or advisable? Can and how to charge battery with vehicle and solar panel? 
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  • MarcelineMarceline Member Posts: 1,695
    edited September 26
    If you're doing a lot of driving, I'd suggest getting a lithium battery (at least 100aH capacity) for your trailer and installing a DC-DC charger to charge from your tow vehicle. Without the DC-DC charger, most tow vehicles don't do a great job charging an external battery due to today's "smart" alternators.
    Not sure what you mean by "plug and play kit." The guys at Sun Powered Yachts would send you all the parts you'd need to install panels on the camper, as you originally mentioned. 
    Also not sure why you mention the rack on the back. Are you envisioning attaching the panel there? I think that at least one person has mounted a rigid panel on a rack. @AldebaranJill?
    Where are you located? Maybe there's a member nearby who can meet up with you and help you figure it out.

    San Francisco Bay Area
    2013 CS-S us@gi
    2015 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner Double Cab
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  • BinghiBinghi Member Posts: 378
    If most of your time during the day will be spent driving, I agree with @Marceline that you would benefit from a good DC to DC charger.
    2021 400 BD / 2016 VW Touareg / Austin, TX
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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    Many owners have installed LiTime lithium batteries.  There are "group 24" 100 amp hour versions that can fit directly into your current battery box.  There are "group 31" versions that go from 140 to 160 amp hours that you might have to work a little harder to fit.  You could even stack two group 24 batteries in your front tub for 200 amp hours. 

    This Dokio 300 watt setup is the simplest possible setup. 



    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • Alan57Alan57 Member Posts: 15
    edited September 26
    Sorry for the confusion on my post. When I asked for plug and play I was referring to an all inclusive kit. I now understand that this is exactly what I can get from Sun Powered Yachts and I will go that route. I mentioned the tire rack only because I assumed it would limit the physical size of the solar panels, not as an option for a mounting location. From all the helpful suggestions I plan to: 
    1. Call Sun Powered Yachts for a complete system that I can install.
    2. Due to simplicity, go with the LiTime lithium Group 24 battery and possibly stack two. 
    3. Install a DC to DC charger. Hopefully SPY can help with this or if not, I will research existing posts on this subject as well as how to stack and wire batteries.
    I live in Evansville, Indiana. If anyone knows of a company that does installations nearby, I would absolutely go that direction. Nearby larger cities are:
    Louisville,KY
    Bowling Green, KY
    Nashville, TN
    Indianapolis, IN
    St. Louis, MO
    Thanks again for all the great advice. I am excited to get this installed and start my road trip. 


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  • AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,609
    If you’re looking for a flexible panel that will fit on a 320, the Sunflare 310W that nuCamp has installed on some 400’s will fit nicely. I ordered one from nuCamp and had it shipped directly to me. Our 320 had a 100W panel mounted on the front part of the roof from the factory, so the wiring was in place for the new panel. You may find it a challenge to do this, but it will be the same for any roof mounted flexible panel. 

    We got limited charge from our tow vehicle, but with the 310W on the roof, charging while in transit has been good. We do also use a solar suitcase once at a destination so that we can park in the shade.
    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler
    (47,171 towing miles through the end of 2024)
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  • donmontalvodonmontalvo Member Posts: 156
    edited September 30
    Tabaz said:
    ...[snip]...
    The only option is to use a generator to top off your battery for the evening.
    ...[snip]...
    2024 320S BBC, the day I took it home I picked up a Champion 2500 (201490) for $499...if I had to do it again I would have spent twice as much on a Honda EU2200i. A reliable generator may save your life one day...and a SoftStartRV may save your sanity.

    Only had to use it in Quartzsite, AZ, when I stayed a little too long and temperatures got high, and again in Butte, MT, when it rained for several days in a row and my two 200ah batteries drained.

    Unfortunately nuCamp haven't latched on to 12V air conditioners...maybe in future models. Until they do, you'll need a generator or to splurge on shore power.

    I plan to purchase some 200W folding solar panels, since I already have 480W on the camper (380+100).

    Good luck with your project.
    Don Montalvo | Retired | Veteran | Full Time Snowbird
    2024 nuCamp T@b 320S Boondock Black Canyon (480W solar|200ah LiFePO4|1200W inverter|EMS|SoftStart)
    2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon (130W solar|100ah LiFePO4|DCDC|1000W inverter)
    https://revkit.com/donmontalvo/ | https://donmontalvo.com
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  • AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,609
    edited September 30
    Personal opinion is that Honda generators are in the same category as Battle Born batteries. Over priced and unnecessary for our needs. 

    In the beginning we purchased a $250, 25 pound, 700W propane generator for backup charging if solar wasn’t keeping up. For this summer’s two month trip, we left it at home and didn’t miss it. 

    I’ve been adding to our battery/solar capacity over the five seasons we’ve owned our 320. We’re at the point now where we could run the Air8 AC probably eight hours with not even charging from solar. Knowing that it could be run for a few hours before sleep is reassuring.

    The vast majority of our camping is without hookups. If we did choose to use the AC and solar was bad, an occasional day at a campground with electric to fully recharge might be necessary. I see that as a better alternative to hauling around the dead weight of a generator that will probably not be used.

    We all have different needs and expectations, but this is working for us.
    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler
    (47,171 towing miles through the end of 2024)
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