Generator Capability

gilbutler

I'm reading around and getting conflicting information.  Just for perspective, does anyone know whether the Yahama EF200is (or Honda EU2000i) generator will run the T@B's Norcold two way (no propane) refrigerator and/or the Friedrich room air conditioner? 

gilbutler

Just looking at the numbers, 2,000 W generator versus 15 A @ 125V = 1875 W for refrigerator or air conditioner, the generator looks adequate (although I'm not really concerned with the air conditioner), but I've been reading complaints about both of these generators that they are really only good for about 1,600 Watts in practical application. I ran a quick test taking the household AC off the T@B after being connected for about three days.  I left the 12 V refrigerator on  medium setting for 19 hours and checked voltage to find my battery at about ⅓ remaining capacity. For the use my wife and I anticipate, refrigerator management seems to be a concern.  Simply moving up from the 60 Ah battery to 80 Ah won't resolve my concerns.  I'm trying to learn more about batteries, generators, solar panels, equipment demands, etc., but some of the information I find on the net seems kinda sketchy.  I'm looking for some guidance from those with similar interests but greater experience.

Frontier

Someone wrote on on of these boards that the a/c takes a lot of power, search and ye shall find. I think but don't quote me that they recommended at least a 2800 watt generator. I have one but it's a bit large to haul around plus I'd have to chain it up to prevent it from running off.

gilbutler

Thanks, Frontier.  It looks like I didn't phrase my search appropriately. I'll try some variety in my searches.  I've tent camped many years without air conditioning and refrigerator, but we are considering some longer trips now that we are both retired.   We could really use the convenience of the refrigerator, but I don't see the need for air conditioning being as important to us. I'm new at this, and am just trying to gain some perspective before making a commitment.  I'm also considering solar, but that is new to me also.   I did see a post by someone who was enthusiastic about solar but was finally looking into getting a generator.  I haven't found that post again so I could contact him or her directly.

Michigan_Mike

Hi Gil,

You might also do a search over on the Little Guy forum as there is a lot of information over there as well.  Lisa33 might be able to give you some advice on this as she has a built in solar unit on her T@DA and utilizes a generator as well.  She is a seasoned hand and has done her homework so she might be able to help you out.  They were discussing generators not too long ago:  http://www.golittleguy.com/forum#/discussion/comment/31835

I have AC and have traveled all over the US pulling Little Guys and have rarely use the air.  I'm not a generator guy either as the noise is very offensive when you are in pristine areas, and some of these guys just don't get it. Thank God for established quiet times and no generator zones, but each to his own as there are opportune times for everyone and we all have choices wherever we travel.....  I use an 80 watt Zamp solar panel, run trailer lights, CPAP unit, ceiling fan occasionally, TV/DVD unit and have an ARB refrigerator/freezer unit and have no issues.  I balance my power needs between the tow vehicle, solar and occasionally shore power and things are fine and certainly attainable.  I have a deep cycle golf cart size battery in my diamond plate tool box too and am satisfied with my set-up.  Unless you are going to be doing a lot of dry camping off the grid you should probably be fine alternating your AC and frig.  I run the ARB off my two vehicle while exploring local areas, clip in to the trailer at night if need be and set-up my solar panel to charge things up during the day.  This process is experimental to a degree because you have to figure out what you really need power wise and conserve when you can.  I've traveled enough now to know that I can manage my consumption and still have plenty of energy to live comfortably when I am away from home.  Unless you are in the deep south, Florida and in a humid environment you can live without AC as it does cool down nicely at night in the desert and mountain areas.  

Happy Trails!

Lisa33

The Norcold 2-way uses relatively little power compared to air conditioners (roughly 2-3 amps @12v depending on the refrigerator setting and ambient temperature). It would barely be a blip on the capacity of a 2,000 watt generator. However, it adds up if you are attempting to run on battery power alone. With your 60 amp hour battery, you have essentially 30 available amp hours of power since you shouldn't run your battery down below 50% to avoid diminishing its longevity. You should definitely avoid running your battery down completely because you run the risk of frying your electronic equipment on the trailer due to low voltage. Let's say the Norcold is using 2 amps to keep the math easy. The 60 amp hour battery is good for about 15 hours of running the refridge.

I don't know the exact specs for the Friedrich a/c, but about 500 watts seems to be fairly typical of the more efficient 5,000 btu units. I had a 5,000 btu unit that was 465 running watts. I could get it to run easily at home on a 2,000 watt Champion inverter generator, but at 6,600 feet in the Tetons it wouldn't run it. Engines have decreased efficiency at higher altitudes losing about 3% per thousand feet in elevation. Their efficiency is also impacted by ambient temperature. Air conditioners also have an initial surge when the compressor kicks in that can exceed the running wattage by quite a bit. And you are right, the nominal 2,000 watt generator is actually rated for 1600 or 1700 watts. So, my answer is that you can probably get away with the 2,000 watts as long as most of your camping is at lower elevations and you don't have a medical need for a/c if it should happen not to work. I sold the champion generator and went with a Yamaha ef2400ishc (I think that's the model number!) 2400 watt with a tri-fuel conversion kit installed so I can run it on propane. Hope this is helpful! Lisa

gilbutler

Mike and Lisa,  I just returned from our first trip in our T@B Cs, a three day trip to New Brighton State Beach, by Capitola, California.  We picked that because of fond memories of taking our very young kids there over 20 year ago.  It was a great trip.  I'm responding to both of you together because I read your comments together and they fit together so well for my needs. 

We have tent camped many years without either air conditioning or refrigeration, we are most interested in upgrading from using the ice chest to the refrigerator for traveling. I'm really reluctant to use a generator, and don't have enough information yet for a decision on solar.  I found that I can connect the T@B to my Pilot and charge the T@B battery about 50% running the auto at idle for 15-20 minutes.  That's always a fall-back if needed and gives me time to gain experience, better get a grip on my real needs, and investigate options.  

In the near term, I will focus on more battery capacity, and think more about solar.  Can either of you give me some general idea about your experience using solar during overcast conditions? 

Thank you both.  For my my immediate needs, your responses fit very nicely, and I appreciate your time, effort, and consideration.

Gil

Michigan_Mike

Hi Gil,

If I am dry camping off the grid I do use my 80 watt Zamp panel.  My panel is approximately 4 years old, so it's an early Zamp model and I do know that they have improved the solar controllers that will make the charge rate even faster.  Even on cloudy days you are charging the battery with these panels as they do draw in any available ambient light that is present.  And obviously the charge rate will be affected (best at peak sun points and high noon and less when the sun angle shifts) and not as efficient as when the panel is in direct sunlight.  You just need to figure out your power needs and usage therein as solar is another way to maintain and keep your battery charge up.  It's free too other than the initial purchase and requires no gasoline.  

gilbutler

Thanks, again, Mike.  That's good info, and hopefully I will eventually have experience to pass on.

mash2

I'm using 136 watt unisolar setup.  Just returned from 60 days on the road (from California to Minnesota, then south to North Carolina and back along the southern route to San Francisco.  I boon docked for up to week and a half with the setup (really hooking up when I did laundry).  I've foot two 100 amp group 27 AGM batteries in the wheel wells and the system worked extremely well. 

mash2

That's I've got two 100 amp AGM batteries.

Lisa33

My general experience with using solar is that (as Mike said), you continue to charge whenever there is any ambient light. I had the 80w Zamp set up during a trip up into Canada where the days were very long. The green charging light would stay lit until nearly 11 sometimes. I didn't make an effort to measure the relative difference in charging on a sunny day vs a cloudy one, but I can tell you that with prudent use of battery power, I was able to camp indefinitely with the 80w Zamp as long as I didn't run the refrigerator. With my current 300 watt setup, I can camp indefinitely while running both a Norcold and an ARB without any real concern for power conservation. My system is intentionally oversized, so I didn't notice any practical difference on an overcast day vs a sunny one. Hope that anecdotal experience helps somewhat!