Step by step using Alde on winterized 2018 T@b with wetbath

Donnab

hi can anyone give me instruction on using my AldE that has been winterized with antifreeze?
i know it’s possible but I’m scared I will make a rookie mistake!
im thinking propane or electric possible
thank you in advance

Donnab

My bad I have a 2017!

Sharon_is_SAM

Do you mean how to heat your cabin using the Alde even though your plumbing is winterized?  Hopefully your Alde does not have antifreeze in it.  

Donnab

Yes! I don’t know if they put antifreeze in it..I emailed dealership and got it should be fine
i am going to have to go there and ask tech if the put the antifreeze in Alde.
i don’t want to cause damage that adds up to $$$$
im thinking of some dry camping with heat

Sharon_is_SAM

Was it purchased new?  If so, it comes from the factory winterized and they do not add antifreeze to the fresh water tank/Alde.  Assuming no water in your plumbing, you are free to heat the cabin with electric or LPG.  

Just turn on the Alde at the control panel and set your thermostat.  It defaults to the first electric setting if on shore power.  If you want more heat, go up to the second setting.  If you want a faster heat up on shore power, open your propane tank slowly, then turn on the propane at the panel.  If boondocking without power, open your propane tank and turn on the propane at the panel. 

Donnab

No Beckley RV winterized it as I purchased last April

Donnab

Thanks Sam I appreciate your help!

ScottG

@DonnaB, you might go out and take a look at the how the Alde bypass valves are set. In "winterized" mode the bypass valve itself should be open (parallel to the pipe) and the valves on the lines to and from the Alde should be closed (perpendicular to the pipe).

(If you are not sure what I'm talking about, see the images here under Winterizing 101.)

If you are sure the RV was winterized with antifreeze and the valves are in winterized (bypass) mode, then it's highly unlikely the dealership put antifreeze in your Alde tank.

If Beckley simply blew out the lines (not antifreeze) than the position of the valves doesn't matter.

Donnab

Thanks Scott I will check this out tonight

dsfdogs

Coincidentally, Paul the Airforce Guy just posted a de-winterize video on the T@B camping Facebook page. He's from Beckley's...per some comments, they DO add antifreeze to the Alde water tank. "At Beckley’s, when we winterize the T@B’s we do put anti-freeze in the water holding tank and it is about 2 gallons. After doing so we turn open the by-pass so there is no need to do anything with it in the spring. The Alde manuals do say you don’t need to put anti-freeze in the water holding tank, however that could spell disaster if any water was left in the tank. Being in business for over 35 years, we do what we believe is in the best interest of the customer. It may be more than needed, but better safe than sorry. "

dragonsdofly

@dsfdogs, which water tank are you speaking of? There is the alde hot water tank and the fresh water holding tank. Some dealerships and owners DO put anti-freeze into the fresh water holding tank but there are many threads which say that the rv anti-freeze should not come in contact with the alde water heating tank. Please clarify which tank as I seem to recall something about damage to the alde stainless steel water heating tank when in contact with the pink rv anti-freeze. .......Unless I'm remembering something incorrectly.  Thanks.

dsfdogs

@dragonsdofly, I wish I could post a link from the private FB group...a user Bob P. did question putting antifreeze in the Alde tank as you mention above, and this was Paul's response: "Our experience is, in this climate if you do not do it our way there is a good chance that the Alde water tank will freeze and expand. It doesn’t take much water for there to be an issue."
He also confirmed that means you can't use the Alde in winterize mode.

The only reason I posted this was I made the connection from where @Donnab said she got her T@B and where Paul the Air Force Guy works and he just posted a new Youtube video about winterizing. 

ScottG

Maybe Paul owns stock in an RV antifreeze company.   ;-)

Seriously, I guess it all depends on your comfort level. If you really want to go the belt-and-suspenders route I doubt there is any harm in filling your Alde with antifreeze.

To the best of my knowledge, members here don't put antifreeze in their Alde. Many of us live in climates much colder than Maryland. I've yet to encounter a report of an Alde suffering freeze damage.

I do take great care to ensure the Alde is actually drained, and I winterize carefully and thoroughly using only the blow-out method. Maybe I'm pressing my luck but I'll take the chance to avoid the hassle of flushing and disposing of all that antifreeze every spring.

YMMV.

RDWHAHB!

ColoradoJon

RV antifreeze in the Alde boiler is fine (Alde manual page 7 - Storage and Winterization).

Bleach is a no-no!

ScottG

Oh, the Alde will survive a pretty potent bleach bath, too--though I don't recommend making a habit out of it.

Don't ask me how I know! Oopsie...  :-)

ericnliz

@ScottG, Yep, I made the same mistake... , accidentally hit the pump switch while sanitizing my fresh water tank. Just hook up city water, fill & drain the tank with the yellow flip valve SEVERAL times. Fill & drain until you can NO LONGER smell bleach. Hmmmm, guess that's how we learn these things, huh?  

Sharon_is_SAM

So, bypass the Alde when you sanitize?

ericnliz

@SAM, The only thing you really need to sanitize is the fresh water tank. Just don't run the pump when doing this because it WILL fill the Alde hot water reservoir tank , and all other water lines as well. If you take the time to drain your other lines after using a city water hook-up, you won't have any water in the other lines to worry about anyway. I just (NOW) sanitize the fresh water tank & drain using the fresh water tank drain line between the step & the passenger side tire.

ChanW

When Little Guy first began installing the Alde in the Tab, the instructions were that it was no problem to use antifreeze and operate the Alde with the antifreeze in it, while winterized. The Tab had no bypass valves in Little Guy's first iteration with the Alde.

However, the next year the manufacturer of the Alde released a notice that 'antifreeze should not be put into the hot water tank', and that it specifically would not be a good idea to run it with antifreeze in it. They said that they didn't know if the seals could handle the hot antifreeze.

Conveniently, Little Guy started installing the bypass valves at that point,  so now the Alde tank could stay anti-freeze free, even if the rest of the water system was winterized with antifreeze. My 'early' Little Guy Tab has no bypass valves.

I personally would go with the Alde manufacturer's recommendation, and not put antifreeze in contact with the water heater and its seals, especially when the Alde is in operation. But contrary to Paul the Air Force guy's suggestion, the Alde can be run while winterized, but it should be run dry, with no antifreeze in it. 

And to the OP's original question,  it sounds like Beckley’s doesn't recommend you ever run it with it winterized, and that they put antifreeze in there with that assumption. But according to the Alde manufacturer, the antifreeze should not be in contact with the Alde hot water tank. (Boy it irks me when a service technician thinks they know better than the manufacturer!)

So I'd think if you want to run it while it's winterized (which you can), you should drain the antifreeze out of your freshwater system, rinse it thoroughly to get all the antifreeze out of the hot water tank, thoroughly drain the rinse water from the system, and close the bypass valves so the hot water tank is kept dry. You can then re-winterize your plumbing either with antifreeze or by using the blowout method.

IMHO, it's easier to use the 'blow out' method!

ericnliz

@ChanW, Absolutely agree with the blow out method. The ONLY things I add antifreeze to is the "P" traps...shower drain, toilet, & sink. Also I'm mindful of putting some down in the gate valves to prevent cracking & the freezing of residual water there as well. It gets below zero MANY times during winters here & I REALLY don't want ANY water in my lines, or tanks. Have done this the last two winters with no issues, so I'm sold on blowing out the lines.

Verna

I’m sold on blowing out lines, also.

I travel late in the year through low 20’s or below and (knock in wood) it has worked for me.  I also travel back home this time of the year. I may need to re-winterize this week in these crazy temps before I get home.

I carry my tire compressor and a gallon of RV antifreeze with me, just in case. 

ChanW

@Verna, been there, done that! 

One of my many 'lessons'!... since spring was almost here, I thought I'd just leave the Alde running to keep the plumbing warm until the weather warms up! Forgot to think about the gate valves on the gray and black tank. Hmmmm.

I learned how to change a gate valve that year!

Photomom

We blew out our lines last winter, had temps below 0F and had no problems in spring. I did leave all the faucets and drains open as well as the Alde’s little yellow flap thingy so any remaining moisture would be able to expand. Antifreeze in traps and toilet bowl only.

Sharon_is_SAM

Keep in mind, since there is no need to bypass the Alde with the blowout method, when you go to sanitize, do as Eric suggested and do not turn on the water pump or you will get bleach in your Alde.  It was recommended to run the bleach water through the plumbing lines and as a result our Alde got bleached as well.

ChanW

The other thing to consider is, adding antifreeze is much quicker than thoroughly blowing the system out, so it would make sense that a dealership would prefer to do that and then deal with draining and flushing in the spring.

It probably takes me a good hour to tilt the Tab this way and that way in order to get all the water out of the lines. 

ScottG

SAM said:

So, bypass the Alde when you sanitize?

That's what I do. I agree that the FW holding tank is probably the most important thing to sanitize, but with the convenient Alde bypass valve it's easy enough to get everything while you are at it.

Photomom

SAM said:

Keep in mind, since there is no need to bypass the Alde with the blowout method, when you go to sanitize, do as Eric suggested and do not turn on the water pump or you will get bleach in your Alde.  It was recommended to run the bleach water through the plumbing lines and as a result our Alde got bleached as well.

I don’t use bleach.  I use a two part Thetford cleaner/sanitizer. Last year I used it throughout the entire system a couple times but I got to wondering. I asked a friend who is a research chemist whether the chemicals in the Thetford sanitizer (Alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride and Alkyl dimethyl ethylbenzyl ammonium chloride) are safe for stainless steel. This is his response. 

“Both will attack stainless steel because the chloride ion is the culprit.  The speed though is determined by the type of stainless steel and the pH.  316 stainless is only slowly attacked by chloride.  Higher pH is also better because there is less free hydrogen ions.  These are higher pH solutions unless there are more ingredients.  The corrosion rate is also concentration dependent.  Chloride is better than chlorine but neither is good for stainless steel.”

So, this year I will take pains to keep the sanitizer out of the Alde. 

ColoradoJon

@ChanW - where is the notice from Alde regarding RV antifreeze in the system?  There is nothing in the current 3010 manual that mentions it.  Can you post a link or a reference?  I use the blowout method so this doesn't affect me, but I have a friend that uses RV anitfreeze.

ChanW

Sure ColoradoJon, I'll try to find it. We bought our Tab in 2013, so it might be a hunt.

Edit: ColoradoJon, nope, can't find it for nuthin, sorry. I guess it'll have to be hear-say!

I used the antifreeze method the first winter we owned ours, and ran it winterized, per instructions, and then the notice came out against it and I had to hope I hadn't hurt it. 

I now only use the blow out method.

ScottG

I recall the same information regarding the Alde as ChanW, but can't put my finger on the original source either. I'll shuffle through my materials as well when I get a chance.

ColoradoJon

I'm curious why Alde would think propylene/ethanol would harm the system.  It's just an alcohol based antifreeze, after all, and doesn't seem to harm water pumps, seals, water supply line joints, or valves.  If they have a concern I would expect them to update their recent manual for download to include the warning, but I cannot find it at all!