Back Shelf Lid Stay Holds Lid Up, Easy Down

BrianZ

We wanted to be able to hold the lid up on the back shelf compartment and be able to close it without slamming.  This lid stay does the job for us..

Sugatsune, Lamp SDS-C301N/BLK Lid Stays, Plastic, Black,White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IKFSVJE

Below is a link to my video of the above, showing the shelf lifted up, where it locks in the up position, and stays there until pushing down on it briefly until it starts to close, then it gently closes on its own (you must not force it closed)... 
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AurmLbSsLkUDyUGE8FWxOHf4MRQm

I wasn't sure how well it would work with the stock plastic hinges, so I installed metal hinges first.  It's a challenge to decipher the instructions to find the exact right locations to install at top & bottom, but I can provide the measurements of the screw locations I used, if anyone is interested.  I only needed one lid stay, so it can be installed at either right or left.  If you're a lefty, you may want to install it on the right side, to make predrilling & screwing easier, otherwise maybe choose whichever side hits the ceiling first.  Make sure the shelf moves freely & does not scrape or bind against adjoining wood framing (especially if replacing hinges).

Silver320

Brian,   Very nice mod!  The video shows the lid closing slowly; are you lowering it or is it a soft-touch close?  When you get a chance could you post the screw hole measurements and hinges you used.  

BrianZ

Thanks, @Silver320.  It is a soft-touch close - it closes slowly on its own, but one must push down on it just enough to get it started past the point that it locks open.  The slowly closing part is on it's own, by gravity, as it depends on the weight of the lid to close.  Use only one, as the lid would likely not close with two.  I'll get those measurements posted soon - have to go out & measure.
Here are the hinges I used:

And source...

I used 3 of the 4 hinges in the bottom row of the picture immediately above, which had the same hole spacing as the installed plastic ones.  I'm not sure these are absolutely required, but I thought they would be more secure for using the lid stay.  Plastic ones may work fine, but I never tried it.

TerryV6

Very nice mod!  I'll be giving this some thought! 

BrianZ

Here are my mounting screw measurements - Yours may vary, but this should get you very close..


Also check to be sure there is enough space above the top bracket to fit the top edge of the double thick plywood layers in the front wall of the cabinet.


4 screws, measured from top edge & back edge.
I would suggest just doing the top & bottom screws first, located at 1.5x2" & 1.5x3", and test for fit of the top bracket location (to verify lid is all the way up), then secure the top, then do remaining front & back screws on the lower bracket.


The lid stay arm fits into the top bracket by holding it sideways at 90°, then lower the body of it to snap it in place at the top, and put the gear wheel onto the lower bracket hub & fasten body with supplied mounting bolt.  Push lid down only to get it started.  They warn not to force it all the way down, or you might break the mechanism.  It lowers itself by using the weight of the lid.
PS: Note extra thick front wall needs to fit above the top bracket.

TerryV6

Brian, this is great.  My back board does not have hinges... 2016 version, but I will figure out the spacing

newell

Brain,
     Great setup.  We've been looking for something that can serve as a hold open but most of the hardware we have looked at doesn't work in such a confined space. We'll be giving this a try.  Thanks for the measurements....

BrianZ

@TerryV6, here's shots of our hinges..



Same size & hole spacing as the plastic ones, but metal.

dragonsdofly

@BrianZ, thanks so much! Our shelf pulled out of the plastic hinges during the Memorial Day weekend. Your post came at the perfect time for us to repair and modify it. Kudos for such precise measurements. Perfecto. -Denise

BrianZ

Thanks, @TerryV6, @newell, and @dragonsdofly.  Glad I could help.  I actually did this at least 6 months ago, but just realized I never shared it.
PS:
I just noticed that I have two knobs leftover in that package of shutter hinges.  Maybe those could be screwed into wood somewhere to hang something?

TerryV6

Yes, another member has joined the ranks of the mod community here.  Some of the seniors here will probably hold a brief ceremony before inscribing your name on the "plaque".  I hope someday that I will be worthy.  

Silver320

@BrianZ thanks for the install instructions!  It will be a handy reference.   
Also, I like the mesh under the cabinets.  If you have a chance please post a few pictures on how that is attached.  

TerryV6

Yes, me too...  And where did get your mesh?

BrianZ

See here...
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/6927/boondock-style-cargo-nets/p1
Or search on "cargo nets".
Scroll down - photo showing mounting is at the bottom.  Source is www.organizedobie.com, and I believe that one is the 8" x 48" Barrier Stretch Cargo Net.  The 8" ones come with the larger hooks.  Smaller ones use plastic loops, like wire hangers.

TerryV6

Thanks Brian,  I stop by here most days, but posts still fall through the cracks.  This looks like you covered it pretty well...

Silver320

Very nifty lid stay.  Thanks @BrianZ for the idea, great instructions and video!  Doubt I could have figured out the placement from the instructions in the package.  The DW is super happy she doesn't have to hold the lid open with her head anymore.  And the best part is that there is no more slamming lid as the soft touch close works very well, yeah!  (Left the original plastic hinges in place.  They seem to work okay with the lid stay.)

BrianZ

Glad to hear it worked for you, @Silver320!
There is something satisfying about watching it slowly & silently close. 😊

BrianZ

PS:
I found a use for the other style hinges (below) included in the shutter hinge kit shown above.

I plan to use them in this manner for the passenger side under-seat storage lid.  It may require a spacer between the lid & hinge such that it will lay flat, if the lid is thinner than the hinge height.  Later I'll add a lid stay of some sort, maybe the ones I plan to remove from cabinets above the stove, after those hinges are replaced with the ones that hold those doors open higher.

Homebodyatheart

@TerryV6 I'm not sure about a plaque, but it's mod badge worthy, that's for sure! @BrianZ thanks for the detailed info and pics! Paging @Ratkity...she's the badge expert I believe.

john727

Gee! Thanks for the great information. I have been looking for the right product and really appreciate your post. This bracket may even work better than the box of Kleenex that I have been using to hold the lid up.

Thanks again for sharing.

PS: While I was back in that area I went ahead and pulled the box out and took about a 1/4" off the top of the back so that the heat will have an easier time of reaching the cabin. Mine came with at most a 1/8 inch gap between the back and the roof. If that doesn't help I'll probably put a computer fan or two back there same as the front one.

John

TerryV6

BrianZ said:

@TerryV6, here's shots of our hinges..



Same size & hole spacing as the plastic ones, but metal.

Brian,

It’s raining out and I decided I have time to revisit this.  I have the Tab without storage there and looking down, I can see the heat vents.  I don’t want to block this off naturally, so I bought  4 18” baskets to mount in this space ..


We will have toasty socks and undies when it’s cold..         grin...
Then on to the panel top.  I’m cutting it into three parts.  On the left and right will be hinge doors, and a small permanent space in the middle where we keep our Goal Zero charger.  
The board right now is a tight fit, so should I sand the back edge to make a 1/16 inch space or so?  Second, your hinges are exposed, but after doing some studying, even without mortizing in the hinge, most show them doing it so only the joint shows...



Sorry its dark, it’s captured video... Anyway, what do you think? When you put your hinges in, did you put in a spacer for small gap?

BrianZ

Sounds like an interesting plan, @TerryV6!  And toasty socks does sound nice.  Hard for me to comment on something I can't see & I'm not familiar with T@Bs that have no storage back there.  When I installed my hinges, I was simply replacing NuCamp's plastic ones with metal ones, using the same screw holes.  I think they may have installed them that way because the back edge of the top board may not have been thick enough to do it the more standard way that you want, with everything hidden except the hinge joint.
You could also use the shutter hinges pictured above where I used the dashed yellow line drawing, since it provides extra screw holes & support underneath the board.

I managed to lighten up your screenshot in my photo editor..

You said your board is a tight fit, but is that with or without the hinge in there as shown above?  If included, you might get by with some aggressive sanding or/and a rasp; otherwise, you'll probably need to either rip some off with a saw or shave with a plane.  Better to have it a little on the loose side than too snug, since higher humidity could make it too tight.  Still trying to picture how you're going to mount wire baskets.
Good luck! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

TerryV6

Well, baskets are in.  I have about 1/2 inch gap in the width, so I wanted that on the back wall.That made it more difficult as the mount holes to be drilled are on the other side of the front board.  No room for a regular drill.  I used a small electric hand screwdriver.  I still had to be a bit of a gymnast..





These are are the right side.  There are two more to the left.  I will firm these up with some of those white plastic hooks I used for my upper shelving.  

Now on my panel, in default mode it lay across the space with a small screw holding it down.  Last year I had added a couple of vents to it. It was snug along its length, thus my question about ripping a smidge off of it.  I’ll have to remove the vents to do that...



My panel has has developed a slight bow.  I thought I’d turn it over,  put it on two horses and have a weight in the middle.

Btw, after panel removal, looking down the opening...





Im thinking I might do the exposed hinge as your picture shows.  In the meantime, football game is on, so a break is called for...

BrianZ

Nice to see these photos, @TerryV6 - now I understand a bit more what you're dealing with.  So, about the long lid with the vents.. Is it supported only on the ends, or is there a lip inside the front edge of that space which supports it like a doorstop inside a door frame?  The warping made me wonder, or that could just be due to the temperature difference & lack of support along the back wall.  In any case, if there isn't a lip, you'd need to install one (assuming it does not rest on top of the front edge like ours?).

A couple more points..

● If you're cutting the top into 3 separate hinged lids, the lid stay I used probably will not work, as it needs the weight of the full lid (and ours has more wood with a sturdy lip/frame piece on the front edge that keeps it from warping).
So you may need to consider some other kind of lid stay, like the bending spring method or some hinges with built-in springs that can support the lids when open.

● I wonder how close the bottom of your baskets are to the heater elements and what the max temperature is of those elements; as you don't want to create a fire hazard by storing something flammable directly ovhazard.  A layer of fireproof insulating material on the bottom of the baskets could help if there was any issue.  My guess is it shouldn't be a problem, but it might be handy for making some instant oatmeal too - put it in there with your socks & wake up to instant oatmeal!.  😉

Here's how I was suggesting using shutter type hinges for the concealed hinge look..

With the smaller part of the hinge against the back wall & maybe an optional spacer block of 1/4" plywood under it for more gap in the back.  Red things are supposed to be screws.  You could also put a spacer block under the lid, if that part of the hinge is too tall & sticks up too high.

I think your smaller lids should alleviate the warping issue, especially with 3 pairs of hinges across the back for support.
Looks like a great mod, provided there's no fire hazzard.  I look forward to seeing the finished results.

TerryV6

Brian... sorry I seemed to have hyjacked your thread.  Perhaps it could be split off.  I am however at the latch stage, which brings us back to your original idea....





My my wife didn’t like my unplanned kerf on either side of the middle piece, so I added a strip to each door to cover them.  I cranked the Alde up to over 3, and the thermometer never went over 110 in the basket.  So no worry there.  I liked your latch and also found many similar ones.  I’ll have to mull this one over...

BrianZ

No worries here, @TerryV6, I think it's a great addition; though I do have serious doubts whether my hinge would work.  It needs a good amount of weight to close, and ours closes very slowly even with the weight of the full width plus front trim piece.  Look carefully at the specs.  I don't know if there's a similar one with a lower weight requirement, but if not, I would consider trying a folding spring like @Dalehelman showed for his upper kitchen cabinets.

Looks like you have found a very nice and workable solution for adding extra storage.
That kerf you mentioned can be a challenge on finished plywood.  Don't know if you used masking tape on it while cutting, but that can help prevent splintering, along with a finer tooth saw blade.

TerryV6

No splintering problem...more the fact that I should have made my first cut, moved my middle piece closer in planning, then cut the second, after which I would move that board closer and fastened it.  I took the whole panel, planned my hinge location, attached them and then took the panel into the garage and made the two cuts.  My cuts were 1/8 wide...

BrianZ

Well, at least you won't have to worry about them getting too tight when humidity is high & the wood swells; plus more space to let the heat out.

TerryV6

I was at Menards and bought two of these for $2.35 a piece.  


But what I really wanted was this one....  but it was $28 a unit...

https://youtu.be/imwkOWTV1L8

TerryV6

Finally finished.  Friction lid stays are adequate.  While it wasn’t a case of fine woodworking, we are happy with it...



The black rectangles seen are the bottom sides of my add on vents, which I initially figured wouldn’t be seen and now they are.  Not too ugly though.  Function over form...

Thanks Brian, for the initial idea.  

BrianZ

Glad you finally got it all sorted out, and you now have an excellent workable solution for more storage plus heated socks!  Just don't keep your chocolate back there.
😉