Need Winterizing Advice

sabel

Picked up our Outback on Friday. Dealer de-winterized in order to go over things with us. They advised that re-winterizing was unnecessary this late in the season. Checked the weather today and it's suppose to get down into the 20's later this week.

There's a clear 1/2" tube running exposed from the top of the fresh water tank, outside, across the underside of the floor, then up through the floor under the sink and then running behind the wall toward the water fill. Under the floor outside ( very exposed ) a section of the pipe forms a p-trap that still has water in it. Blowing out the lines does not affect this line and it will definitely freeze. Does anyone know what this line is and how it can be drained or antifreezed?

I'm desperate.

Nomad

First, what's a p-trap and where is it that you can see there's still water in it. Looked under my Max-S and can't see anything.
In general, your dealer is correct. Below freezing temps at night aren't sustained temps, they're the low for the night. It takes a certain length of time to freeze a line solid enough to cause a problem. Even if it's cold enough to cause a slush it's generally not going to break a line.
So it depends on how long it's going to be at that low temp. If it's warm during the day (well above freezing), the night time low shouldn't be a problem - at least if it does get down to single digits.

DurangoTaB

Can you pour a little pink stuff into the p-trap ( and other drains)?...wouldn't hurt.

sabel

PXLated,

P-Trap, that's the S shaped drain pipe fitting below a sink or toilet that traps enough water to prevent sewer gas from entering. That's why you put antifreeze in all of the drains.

Anyway, I figured out what the clear tube is. Its a vent line that connects the fresh water filler to the fresh water tank. Goes from the filler all the way to the underfloor tank on my model. The installers could have easily installed the line so it drained into the tank but instead looped it all over the place so there's a low spot under the trailer. I took a piece of 1/8" hose, stuck it up to the small hole inside the filler and blew. Cleared out the line like a compressor. I'll have to add that one to the winterizing procedure.

Last two days have been a real education in plumbing, electrical, and Alde.

Thanks for the advice. I won't worry so much about freezing for now. It's practice for next winter.

Nomad

Ok - I guess I knew what a p-trap was, just never called it that, just a "trap" - You mention a p-trap outside, under the floor - don't have one of those, just inside under the sink. As DurangoTaB mentioned, I just poor a little rv antifreeze in the sink drain. But only if it's really cold. Some of the interior heat will keep that from freezing. Heading into 27-30 night temps myself here shortly and not much worried about freezing up. Of course, I'm originally from MN where 27 is shorts/tshirt weather.

DurangoTaB

PXL...I presume you have a shower?  There's a p-trap there too...

DurangoTaB

p.s. I just looked under our T@B and didn't see any tubing running out & back...like Sabel's Outback...;-).  Sabel.... Do you have the new 11 gal water tank?

Nomad

DurangoTaB - Yep, got the shower but don't see any trap outside underneath. There's just the two holding tanks. I do have the filler and breather tubing that Sabel's talking about. 

sabel

The water filler I refer to is outside, just above the city water connection. Open the 3" round door and mine has a 1/4" dia. hole at the top. That's a vent for the fresh water tank. My fresh water tank looks to be about 10-11 gal. and is located on the other side of the trailer, under the cabin door. Vent line does not have an intentional  p - trap fitting, just a low spot in the outside line that traps water. Sure to freeze next winter.

Nomad

Yep, got all that.
What I've found (observed) is that when you winterized and drain the freshwater tank, yes, there's some water might be left in that vent hose low spot but it's not enough (and there's plenty of air space above and below that spot) that if it freezes it doesn't hurt the line. As the water turns to ice it has an internal space to expand up and down the vent line rather than sideways and bursting the tube. I got stuck in 10 degree temps with 30 mph winds for 4 days back in Nov. I knew it was coming so blew the lines and Yep, some water in that dip. Not much but some. Obviously with those temps it froze but no damage when I got to warmer clines, de-winterized and checked for leaks or damage.
That said, your mileage may vary.

one thing you can do is squirt a little RV antifreeze down the vent tube - You'll just need to sanitize the tank/tube when you want to use it - No big deal, just bleach and good rinsing.

Nomad

Ok, all coming back to me - When I picked up my T@B in Oct., it came winterized and the dealer did nothing but hand me the keys. I took it to a friends lake place and de-winterized it, filled tanks and checked it out. Then I re-winterized it, blowing everything out (for practice) and added some non-toxic RV antifreeze to the sink trap, holding tank dump valves, and some down the fresh water including the vent tube. Then I again de-winterized it and sanitized the fresh water system with Clorox per the manual. Then refilled. So I did winterized the vent tube. However, when I did the quick re-winterize in Nov, I didn't do the vent and had no problems. So, if you are worried about freezing, you can do the whole Monty but then you'll have to sanitize the dang thing.

sabel

I did manage to bow-out the vent hose. Put antifreeze in the drains and we'll see what happens to the rest.
We live in Wyoming where it can snow any month.
Thanks

Nomad

Understand that, I spent most of my life in the deepfreeze called Minnesota.
I worry less about things now that I've had the T@B and traveled for months - It was all new to me and the dealers didn't check or explain a thing, just handed me the manuals and the keys and waved goodbye.

ChanW

Pxl, there is a trap under your shower drain, otherwise the stink from your gray water tank would be coming into the trailer.

On ours (2014), it's accessible within a little metal box underneath the trailer, directly below the shower drain.

It's quite exposed to the cold out there, so you'll want to put a little antifreeze in your shower drain too.

Nomad

ChanW - I've done that - Don't see any access underneath on my 2015, just see tanks but I didn't crawl all the way under.

ChanW

Well, on mine it's about 10" in front of the tire, and about 6" from the outside edge, so it's hard to miss.The box is black, maybe 10"x8"x6"tall.

I can't imagine there being no trap for the shower, and they would have made it accessible, for those times when it plugs up, or freezes, or the significant other drops the wedding band in the shower... The gray water tank ain't no bunch of roses, either.

DurangoTaB

Perhaps this is a separate thread...but has anyone else used this Camco dewinterizing fluid?  It's a "kinder but gentler" form of bleach...I really like it.
http://www.amazon.com/Camco-40218-TastePURE-Dewinterizer/dp/B003E1U2BY/ref=bdl_pop_ttl_B003E1U2BY

Nomad

ChanW - okey, I see the black box on the outside of the frame.