battery\electric issue

kaylevine1

I think I may have ruined my batteries!!! when I got home last weekend from my camping trip I hooked up to my 30 amp outlet as I always do and turned on the fantastic fan as it was muggy and hot while unpacking-I turned the fridge off as I knew I wasn't going to be using for at least a month-i'm pretty sure I checked to make sure the electric was working by checking battery-which was showing at 100% I locked up but left the fan on-nothing else was on I even put the step up-Tv n radio were off-but still blue light-minimal draw-alde was turned off-I had turned it off at the campground before leaving. I had not used the cool cat at all-not on. Everything worked fine at campground even used the microwave-I did have to just use cord without surge protector as I couldn't find key to bicicle lock I use to lock to outside receptacle-of course I found it a few days after getting back
So I did not check on it all week-just forgot-busy-work etc-never had a problem before but on Sunday when I went to open up n chick the battery was reading all the way down-checked surge protector-couldn't see the power light green lit up-unhooked and rehooked a couple of times n finally got power to go to green and stay-but inside battery still only goes to 1\3 also tried hooking n unhooking chord at trailer also tried chord direct to outlet unless the surge protector was bad with same result-I believe there is power at receptacle and the surge protector is functional.--we did have bad rainstorm one day earlier in the week-why I didn't think to check after I can't tell you-just always in a hurry to get inside after work at night.  I think there may have been a power surge during the rainstorm that made the surge protector go off then the house batteries ran down-but why did my solar not provide enough power to run the fan?? we had several sunny days last week-my other thought was that the power chord could be bad-it has always worked but you could never see a red light like you are supposed to to indicate it is on--I have a t2b 400 just purchased last year-it is a learning curve 

kaylevine1

also I can't remember what kind of batteries the t@b 400 comes with

ScottG

Did you check the circuit-breaker thingy located near the battery? How about the 12V fuse for the battery charge circuit? If either of those are blown/tripped the converter will not be able to recharge the battery even though you have reestablished your shore power connection.

falcon1970

@kaylevine1
My NOV build 2019 TAB came with two 6v Harris AGM batteries for a total of 224 amp-hours.  Harris tells me that their AGM batteries have an 80% depth of discharge.  Discharging deeper than that will not necessarily ruin your batteries but it will likely decrease their overall life span--especially if you deep discharge many times.  A one-time deep discharge probably hasn't done any serious damage to the batteries.  If you cannot now recharge the battery or get power to appliances or outlets, I agree with checking various circuit breakers.  There are more than a couple and there is also one under the bed near the inboard side of the battery.  It is an insidious little device.  There is a push-button right on top (accessible to anything under the bed) which will trip the connection from the battery.  To reset it you close the red lever on the side which will have swung out when the top button was pushed.

kaylevine1

I will look for that circuit breaker on\near the battery but I don't know where the 12v fuse for the battery charge circuit is??

kaylevine1

again--why no light under the bed???

ScottG

The 12V fuses are in the fuse panel that is part of your converter. There should be one labelled battery charger and probably another labelled battery reverse polarity (or similar).

I don't know what "the light under the bed" is that you refer to.

Let's back up...  Does anything in the camper work when you are plugged into shore power?

kaylevine1

will I have to take the cover off the battery to find that circuit breaker?

Verna

kaylevine1 said:

will I have to take the cover off the battery to find that circuit breaker?

No. My early 2019 T@B 400 has the breaker to the right of the batteries as you are looking down into the storage area.  I’ve not investigated my 40 amp breaker so I cannot tell you how to tell if it is tripped. 

I would first look in the converter (the fuse and circuit breaker panel—mine is under the closet door—a brown box lid) for the 12V fuse to see if it is blown. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Here is a pic of the 40 amp battery breaker not yet installed.  I think if it trips, the red, vertical lever drops down, so it should be visible.

Sharon_is_SAM

@kaylevine1, have you isolated your battery and checked the voltage after the battery rests?
Are you gaining any charge since this morning?  
 

kaylevine1

thanks for the info-I will look at both of those circuit breakes-it's back under the bed for me again!!-when I got home last Sunday afternoon the circuitbreaker box door had fallen off and was on the floor-I just figured it fell off going over a bump-but it could be the jiggling from a blown circuit could have blown it off

kaylevine1

found the red circuit breaker thing was actually behind the battery cut off switch between the battery and the outside wall near the access door-not tripped but I tripped and reset anyway-also removed and replaced all the fused in the fuse box-a learning experience-I had bought a box of fuses that came with a little tool to remove at lowes-a friend was there putting up a new mailbox for me and he had a helper with him who showed me how to take them out -of course then I had to reset my co2 gas monitor-had to figure that out-well now I know how to do that!! I think I could do it by myself next time. there were some regular circuit breakers in that box also but none were tripped. have a new power chord coming today from amazon-will try that just in case power cord is bad-did I mention the red light does not come on on the power cord-and hasn't since about the first time I used it-but it was working anyway.
Also when I went in n pushed the battery button-at first it went to 2\3 full then settled back to 1\3 and stayed there-no flicking down to zero-it is so overcast here-but looks sunny now-of course she is partially under a tree-maybe some trickle from solar??
I guess maybe I should name her? 

kaylevine1

thanks for the picture Sharon-yes that is exactly what it looks like-could not see it until I opened the outside door.

kaylevine1

also-how do you take off the big black plastic covering over the batteries to actually gain access to them? I don't even see screws-I have a tire pressure monitoring system but you need to attach a signal booster to your battery

Awca12a

It might be helpful to download the 400 Unofficial Guide as it covers the fuses in detail along with locations and details on the batteries and all the systems.  Pages 103-108

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/115020#Comment_115020

I tried to remove the battery cover to install a temperature sensor and stopped after 30min deciding it wasn’t worth it.  You need to remove parts of the bed support in order to gain access to
 the black cover and detach the cover vent hose from the sidewall of the trailer.  Then awkwardly remove everything watching the angles.  

They designed it with the mindset of an engineer excited to get it under the bed but not concerned about how it would be serviced down the road.  Just like Ford, GM, etc.  

Sharon_is_SAM

You may need to charge your large battery via a smart chargers.  There has been a history of early 400s that were not able to be charged when the battery was very low.  It caused fuses to blow.  If I were you, I would use your smart charger.

kaylevine1

what is a smart charger-how would I know what to get and how would I remove the battery to charge it?? my 400 is an early 2019-supposedly has 2 batteries

falcon1970

@Awca12a
There are more than a couple of places where they didn't really think things through.
You shouldn't have to remove the bed support to remove the battery cover.  Mine is a 2x4 stud (a really rough stud) that forms an "L" just aft of the battery case--it doesn't go over the battery case.  Does yours go over?  The batteries are set in a cutout in the 1/2" flooring.  There are several wires in a split loom anchored to the floor with cable brackets that hide the bottom screws of the battery case.  There are a couple of screws on the inboard side of the case and about four across the forward top of the case.  You do need to remove the hose clamp holding the vent tube to the case.  Also, If you unscrew the strain reliefs holding the battery cables to the case the whole case will rotate up and to the right.  The power and temperature wires will fit through that strain relief hole right next to the positive battery cable.  Note that the fuse for the Victron Battery monitor is rather close to the positive battery connection ring.  If that fuse ever blows we'll have to go through this whole exercise to check/replace it.  I wish Victron had mounted that inline fuse closer to the shunt end of that line.

kaylevine1

WOW!!!!I am seeing this manual for the first time-blown away!!! nothing like the official one that told you very little of importance-it has pictures n everything-I am attempting to print out-don't care how much paper n ink it takes

kaylevine1

I know what i'll be reading tonight-briefly looked at the part on fuses-thanks a bunch-I do not have a Victron interter-it is aims-not sure why

kaylevine1

Scott g not sure what fuse panel that is part of the converter you mean-the big one under the closet-I checked all of those but none were labeled battery anything-is there another panel??  the lights work the fan works-didn't try any outlets-microwave does not work

kaylevine1

@Awca12a how did you know all that-I'm not physically able to do that even if I was brave enough to try-how are you supposed to change the battery or get to it-I don't even know what half the words you said are or where they are-I assumed there would just be a couple screws you took off then lifted of the top to get to the batteries

ScottG

kaylevine1 said:

Scott g not sure what fuse panel that is part of the converter you mean-the big one under the closet-I checked all of those but none were labeled battery anything-is there another panel??  the lights work the fan works-didn't try any outlets-microwave does not work

@kaylevine1, I'm talking about the thing that looks like this. I don't know exactly where it is located on the 400. Your 120V AC circuit breakers will be in the slots in the upper left. Your 12V fuses will be in a column on the right. There should be labels somewhere in there that tell you which breaker or fuse protects which circuit. On my 320, the two lowest 12V fuses protect the battery charging circuit.

The lights and fan run on 12V. If they are working that means power is getting to the converter and the converter is working. This suggests that the problem with your battery not charging involves either the battery charging circuit, or the battery itself.

I have no idea why your microwave doesn't work. That is powered by the 120V side of the system, and is most likely a completely different issue.

kaylevine1

I am blown away by the 400 unofficial guide!! working my way through it-love the pictures

kaylevine1

ScottG thanks for the picture of the box-I think that is the one under the closet-according to the unofficial 400 guide-doesn't look quite like that-has 12v fuses all along the right in a column I pulled them all out and checked them then has 4 circuit breaker looking black things on the left none of which looked tripped but I did not flip them and reset-new cord came yesterday-battery monitor was saying solid 2\3 before-then I hooked up new cord-still the same

ScottG

@kaylevine1, it should be the same box as yours (or one very similar). My photo looks different because the circuit breakers and fuses have not been installed yet.

Regardless, it sounds like you found the right box, checked all the correct things, and ruled out a blown fuse on the battery charge line. If I understand correctly, you also previously ruled out the breaker adjacent to the battery being tripped.

So, next question...  You mentioned that none of the 120V breakers were tripped, but that when plugged into shore power, your microwave didn't work. Do your 120V outlets have power? If you need to, get a lamp or other device, plug it in to the outlets, and see if it works. Report back what you find and we'll go from there. 

kaylevine1

so I finally figured out the problem-battery seems to have charged up just from the solar BTW and even Tv working-didn't check fridge-but 12v outlets working n usb turned on inverter and 110 plug from inverter worked-I also did reset all those breakers on the left in the box even though none were tripped. went outside-obviously a 110 problem-I had already changed out my power cord with a new one but not the surge protector as the lights indicated it was working-but I did order one and thought well i'll change it for the new one-voila-microwave working!! it was the surge protector all along-so all is good-battery suffered an insult but apparently has recovered-must have been a power surge during that storm when I wasn't home that blew out the surge protector and affected the power cord as well-once both replaced all is working again!!-well I learned al lot about my trailer as well as myself and how to problem solve-step by step source to problem-never believe electronics-repeat if necessary-AND it is great to be part of the t@b community!!-big thanks to all who made suggestions!!! and I am slowly making my way through the unofficial 400 guide-fascinating!!!!!

ScottG

Congratulations @kaylevine1, and thanks for the follow-up. You essentially figured out on your own what I was driving at--your T@B wasn't getting 120V power, the converter wasn't charging the battery, and the things that were working (like lights and fan) were being powered by what juice was left in the battery, and possibly a bit of solar.

Camp on!

BrianZ

Congrats, @kaylevine1!
Glad to hear you got it all sorted out.

Awca12a

@kaylevine1. Welcome to the forum and to T@B ownership.  Glad you are finding the manual helpful.   As a new user, your input is most helpful in pointing out what might have been confusing or skipped over.   You aren’t the first and won’t be the last to be frustrated by a busted surge suppressor.