Intermittent burst of water from under the T@B....I have no idea why!

Chris_and_Sarah

Pulled up to the campsite the day before yesterday and hooked up the water and shore power. About two hours later we heard a loud sound and a short, strong burst of water shot from the underside of the t@b (2014 S Max). It happened several times through the night, and it hasn't stopped.  

Here is what I know:
The water comes from a black tube...possibly the water heater but I couldn't be sure.  When we're inside the T@b, the sound it makes seems like it's coming from the bathroom, though the water is definitely expelled from the back of the t@b.  When it happens it takes about a second and a half:  vibration, sound, burst of water, then quiet.  It happens every couple of hours, sometimes twice in less than a minute.  It started when black, grey, and freshwater tanks were empty, but black and grey water have been used the last 2 days. It's happened with the water pump both on and off.  It's happened with the Alde both on and off.

I'm sorry if this has been posted elsewhere and I missed it, but it's waking us up at night and I can't think of what it could be.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

DurangoTaB

Could you have some Alde drain valves open?  Very odd...

DurangoTaB

Also...do you have a pressure regulator on the water intake?

ChanW

hmm, I'm stumped.

There are three tubes that exit out the floor, through a rubber grommet near the Alde. You can see them sticking into the grommet under the seat between the Alde and the outside wall.

One of the tubes is an 'over-pressure' safety outlet for the Alde if it has too much pressure in the boiler's fluid. It's equivalent to what you see on a hot water tank in your basement. The tube is connected to the brass pressure-release valve on the top large rubber hose leading to your heating coils. But it would only build up pressure if the Alde was on. Also, what ends up on the ground is antifreeze, and not water.

Another tube in the grommet is coming from the Alde's fluid expansion tank in the rear corner of the Tab. That wouldn't be under pressure, it would simply drip out under the Tab, but it also would be antifreeze, not water.

There are two drain valves that exit the floor in the same area, for draining the hot and cold water lines for winterizing. If one of those valves was open or partly open, you might get water gushing out periodically, especially if the Tab is hooked up to water at the campsite. To close them, you press down on the tee handle (white plastic, about 1/2" across). You might need to turn it back and forth a little to get it to slip into position, it's a rubber o-ring type seal.

HTH - let us know what you learn! 

Chris_and_Sarah

Thanks for the advice!

@DurangoTaB , I was initially worried about the water pressure being too high.  I don't have a pressure regulator, but I tried to account for this by only opening the campsite water valve a quarter turn (I unscrewed the hose and adjusted the valve until the stream of water coming out was small enough that I thought it couldn't possibly be too much pressure), but that didn't prevent it from happening.

@ChanW, it's definitely not antifreeze, so now I'm going to check those valves.  I'll post back with how it goes.

Chris_and_Sarah

Ok I found the location of the water burst.  It's at the Alde drain/safety valve on the cold water line.

While the hot water line has the white tee handle, the cold water line has a larger, yellow, flipper-type valve (see image) that has three positions.  When the valve is parallel to the ground (on either side), it's closed.  Pointing straight up, perpendicular to the ground opens it.  However, when the valve is closed, you can push down on the valve like a button:  while pushing down, it's open, but when you release it, it comes back up to parallel, closing the valve. 

That's what's happening when the water bursts out -- the valve goes down for just a second, causing the water to gush, then comes back into place.  There's no way I can manipulate the valve to make it stay closed.

However, there's another pice to the puzzle indicating it could indeed be a pressure problem.  Every couple of minutes (as in, way more often than the water burst), there is a brief spray of mist that comes from the connection between the city water faucet and the freshwater hose.  If the problem were pressure, then that would explain both of these activities, with the pressure relieving itself repeatedly at the hose, and then when it builds too much, overcoming the drain valve at the Alde.  I'm just wondering how that could be possible -- we've made several camping trips, and I've never used a pressure regulator.  I just use common sense not to turn the water on all the way, and we've never had a problem.  And I've turned the water here down to just a trickle -- could it still be a pressure problem or do you think I have a faulty valve?

leenscottfl

The water supply has a pressure regulator on it. It is that brass piece attached to the spigot. When it sprays it is bleeding off pressure.

Chris_and_Sarah

I forgot to include the image:

ChanW

I think it could be over-pressure on your hose inlet.

Opening the inlet valve coming into the Tab part-way won't regulate the pressure. If the water in the Tab is not running, ie no faucets turned on, the pressure on the lines can still be too high. The pressure just build up a little slower with a partially closed inlet valve.

 I would think the campground would have a way to tell you what the pressure is on their lines. Anything higher than 40 to 50 psi is too much.

Michigan_Mike

This brass regulator (fits on end of hose) might help alleviate the problem and reduce the water line pressure coming in from the park's water in-let.  These are available for about $8 at Walmart.  I know that some of the state parks I stayed in out in Arizona had the pump handle style faucett's and the water would rocket out of them and there was more than enough pressure.  The regulator will dampen down the pressure and will protect your system too.  

Chris_and_Sarah

@leenscottfl , this spigot has no brass piece attached -- btw, we're in the Panhandle, and Ft. Clinch SP is one of our favorite places to camp!

@Michigan_Mike, and @ChanW, thanks for the advice -- I'll head up to Walmart this afternoon and hope my next post will be to confirm that everything is working!

Chris_and_Sarah

Thanks everyone for all the advice.  This was my firs experience using the forum to troubleshoot and I'm blown away that so many people are eager to help.

Went to Walmart earlier and got the pressure regulator.  It's been on for a couple of hours and so far, no water! Fingers crossed.

ChanW

I don't think we have a pressure relief valve on our fresh water. 

I'll have to see if I can get one of those.

JandJ92010

Another thing to mention here is that if you see a brass fitting screwed on to a spigot, it may not be a pressure regulator, but a back flow preventer. When you have a hose hooked to it with pressure on the hose and you turn the valve off, the back flow preventer will spray water out of itself to relieve the pressure in the hose. The preventer does what the name implies. It prevents the water from flowing back into the water system if there is a drop in pressure in the system. It is a safety and health device. 

Nomad

One thing my dealer provided was the water hose WITH a pressure regulator - If he hadn't, I wouldn't have known I needed one.

Verna

PXLated said:

One thing my dealer provided was the water hose WITH a pressure regulator - If he hadn't, I wouldn't have known I needed one.

Oh sure you would have.  We would have told you about it

jdargis

We had a similar problem with our unit, but was still related to pressure.  We had no problem, when hooked to city water, we use a regulator.  Our problem occurred when we used our pump and freshwater tank.  When the pump was on, it would blow water past the pressure valve.  Talked to Ed at the factory and he told me the problem had occurred on another unit, he said it was a defective pump putting out to much pressure.  They sent me a new pump, which I switched out and seems to have taken of the problem.  

leenscottfl

Hobbit - Thanks for that tidbit about the backflow preventer. That makes more sense than what I have been told about itbeing a pressure regulator! Even this old dog can learn a thing or to. Well actually I could learn a lot.

Nomad

Verna - Undoubtedly ;-)

ChanW

Hope it works for you, Chris_and_Sarah.

If not, you probably should call LG and ask them if it's supposed to do that. 

I searched with Google, and I couldn't find any pressure relief valve that looks like that, though it does look similar to the one on my water heater at home.

I also checked out our Alde, and the pressure relief valve on our freshwater is on the hot water fitting that comes out of the Alde, with a tube running down to that rubber grommet in the floor (that's the third tube in the grommet).

But ours lacks the extra isolation valve for winterizing the Alde, which, in your case, might explain needing a pressure relief valve on both the hot and the cold lines.

Michigan_Mike

jdargis said:

We had a similar problem with our unit, but was still related to pressure.  We had no problem, when hooked to city water, we use a regulator.  Our problem occurred when we used our pump and freshwater tank.  When the pump was on, it would blow water past the pressure valve.  Talked to Ed at the factory and he told me the problem had occurred on another unit, he said it was a defective pump putting out to much pressure.  They sent me a new pump, which I switched out and seems to have taken of the problem.  

This is good information to know and is the first I've heard back from the factory regarding the issue.   I'm certain that on occasion they do receive defective parts (unbeknownst to them) and that they are mounted and sent out and found via owner use.  But I also know that they have a great warranty and will go above and beyond to make it right with the customer if people make contact and discuss an issue with them.  I'm glad your issue was easily resolved and thanks for sharing your experience.   

DurangoTaB

Chan...interesting you don't have the isolation valve...we have one; we ordered our S Maxx in 2/2014 and got it in 5/2014.

ChanW

Durango, we got our "2014" in August 2013. We win. :-)

Because we have a 'transition' model, we have the Alde, but we also have the hole where the old furnace exhaust would have been. We don't have electric brakes. 

We love it anyway.

Ratkity

....

skwhee

We agree with Ratkity. We always use the brass pressure regulator. We've been in campgrounds with water pressure as high as 120psi. Sometimes the campground folks warn us, sometimes not. It's easy enough to just always use the regulator (and a surge protector too.)

Ratkity

.....

MikeO

Michigan_Mike said:

jdargis said:

We had a similar problem with our unit, but was still related to pressure.  We had no problem, when hooked to city water, we use a regulator.  Our problem occurred when we used our pump and freshwater tank.  When the pump was on, it would blow water past the pressure valve.  Talked to Ed at the factory and he told me the problem had occurred on another unit, he said it was a defective pump putting out to much pressure.  They sent me a new pump, which I switched out and seems to have taken of the problem.  

This is good information to know and is the first I've heard back from the factory regarding the issue.   I'm certain that on occasion they do receive defective parts (unbeknownst to them) and that they are mounted and sent out and found via owner use.  But I also know that they have a great warranty and will go above and beyond to make it right with the customer if people make contact and discuss an issue with them.  I'm glad your issue was easily resolved and thanks for sharing your experience.   

I'm having the same problem as jdargis. It only happens intermittently though, sometimes it blows off sometimes not. I searched this forum to determine if it was the pump or the PRV causing the problem. Looks like it's mostly likely the pump. I'm just out of warranty with my 2015 T@B S Max, but I'll give Ed a call anyway and see what happens.