Do You Plug Your Camper into a GFCI Outlet?

Gherzig
Gherzig Member Posts: 99
in Battery/Electrical & Solar
While researching solutions to GFCI issues with my fridge, I found a good number of folks (internet "experts") who state that an RV should not be plugged into a GFCI as the RV has internal GFCI protection on those outlets requiring it.  Some claim that a fridge is not required/expected to be plugged into a GFCI as "the protection is not needed" and a fridge can leak minute amounts of current which would trip a GFCI.
In my case, I have only tried 15 amps so far.  I understand that campgrounds are not required to have GFCI on their 30amp outlets.

2021 T@b 400 Boondock
       Oneonta, NY
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Comments

  • falcon1970
    falcon1970 Member Posts: 758
    edited March 2022
    Hmmmm, internet experts (including me) may or may not know what they are pontificating about.
    A GFCI (Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter) outlet acts merely as a regular electrical outlet until it senses a ground fault (usually from a short inside a piece of equipment) after which it trips and cuts all power through the outlet--as well as any outlet on that circuit "downstream" from it.  If a fridge (or any other tool) is "leaking" enough electricity to trip a GFCI then there must be a fault in the refrigerator or tool.  Plugging that tool into a regular outlet (not on a circuit protected by a GFCI) will allow the tool to operate but it may pose a shock hazard.
    A GFCI outlet protects not just what is plugged into it but also anything connected to the outlets "downstream' of the GFCI.  That is why you only need one GFCI outlet (the first outlet in the series) on any one circuit.  I don't think there would be any issues with having additional GFCIs on that circuit though.
    If your fridge keeps tripping a GFCI then that would indicate a fault or short somewhere internally.  Maybe vibration has rubbed through a power cord or a mouse has chewed on the power cord.
    Also, like everything else, GFCIs do age.  They may fail after some number of years.  The test button on the face of the GFCI should indicate if it has failed.  Older GFCIs used to fail to the "open" position.  meaning that they would still allow electricity to flow through the circuit but were not providing protection of the circuit.  Newer GFCIs fail to the "closed" position.  Meaning they shut off power to the circuit.  I don't know when newer GFCIs came on the market.

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  • Grumpy_G
    Grumpy_G Member Posts: 712
    I learned something new today.... A quick search of da Interwebs shows that a fridge tripping the GFCI is fairly common. Conventional refrigerators are inductive loads that can cause short spikes of current imbalances. 
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  • falcon1970
    falcon1970 Member Posts: 758
    It may be fairly common but it is still not OK.  Not sure what you mean by "current imbalances" but GFCIs protect against shorts and not high startup loads.  That is what the circuit breaker protects.
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  • Gherzig
    Gherzig Member Posts: 99
    FWIW, here is a link to an article arguing against the use of GFCI's on 30 amp outlets at campgrounds.  I am not advocating for or against. I am new to the world of RVs and know enough about electricity to be dangerous.  Sharing just to learn from others

    https://www.rvtravel.com/30-and-50-amp-gfcis-in-campgrounds/
    2021 T@b 400 Boondock
           Oneonta, NY
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    I routinely plug my T@B into a 20A GFCI protected outlet in my garage--not out of any requirement, but only because that is what is available. I do this expressly for the purpose of prechilling the 3-way fridge on AC. In seven seasons I have never experienced the GFCI tripping while in use. That's not to say tripping can't happen under the right circumstances, but it is not something I would necessarily expect to happen.
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • Slackers
    Slackers Member Posts: 491
    We plug our Tab into an outdoor GFCI protected outlet for the same duration and reason as ScottG.  In the 2.5 years we have had the trailer, we've had 0 incidents.  We also overnight mooch-docked once in the same manner without incident.
    2019 Tab 320 CSS, 2019 Ranger TV, OH
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  • Grumpy_G
    Grumpy_G Member Posts: 712
    falcon1970 said:
    It may be fairly common but it is still not OK.  Not sure what you mean by "current imbalances" but GFCIs protect against shorts and not high startup loads.  That is what the circuit breaker protects.
    That is fundamentally wrong. A circuit breaker trips when the current exceeds a certain value which happens during a short or an overload condition. It is not fast acting.  A GFCI compares the current on the hot and neutral connectors and if it sees 6 mA difference it trips in 40 milliseconds. A inductor is a coil (the windings of an electric motor act as a coil which is why it is an inductive load) that effectively delays current which in turn results in the GFCI sensing a current imbalance and tripping. 
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  • Grumpy_G
    Grumpy_G Member Posts: 712
    ScottG said:
    I routinely plug my T@B into a 20A GFCI protected outlet in my garage--not out of any requirement, but only because that is what is available. I do this expressly for the purpose of prechilling the 3-way fridge on AC. In seven seasons I have never experienced the GFCI tripping while in use. That's not to say tripping can't happen under the right circumstances, but it is not something I would necessarily expect to happen.
    A 3 way fridge uses a resistive heating element for AC which is different from a compressor fridge with a motor which is an inductive load. Most 400s have a compressor fridge unless optioned differently. 
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  • MarkAl
    MarkAl Member Posts: 509
    To continue down this "rabbit hole". A GFCI does NOT protect against shorts, it protects against an open or high resistance current return wire from the outlet (and on all downstream outlets from the protected outlet). The problem is if this return wire (conventionally white) does NOT return all the current (within 0.005 amps) of the outgoing current that is being delivered to the outlet's black wire, the circuit opens. If it didn't open, the return current may go through the user to ground and not the safe or white wire - if this path had less resistance than the problem white wire.  This is particularly important around where water pools. SO to someone's point of some devices triggering the false opening it is true as the GFCI may have difficulty as it ages to measure fast rising current differences in either wire. I'm trying to remember on my 2021 320 if the outside power goes into the trailer's GFCI outlet first or after other devices. If it does go to this outlet first then the trailer is safe without using one on the house.
    Snohomish WA, 2015 Diesel Grand Cherokee
    Sm@ll World: 2021 320S Boondock, 6V Pb-acid
    Shunt, Roof & Remote solar & 30A DC-DC Chargers
    managed by VE Smart Network
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    MarkAl said:
    ...
    I'm trying to remember on my 2021 320 if the outside power goes into the trailer's GFCI outlet first or after other devices. If it does go to this outlet first then the trailer is safe without using one on the house.
    Agreed. On my 2015 all of the accessible cabin outlets (including the outside outlet) are on a single 15A circuit and are all wired downstream from the GFCI outlet under the driver's side bench, so are therefore also CFCI protected. I don't imagine that has changed on later models.

    The Alde, air conditioner, and fridge are all on different dedicated circuits that are not GFCI protected. This is okay given the assumption that a user will not be plugging any portable devices into those outlets.
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • SLJ
    SLJ Member Posts: 644
    Nope. T@B has a Progressive EMS in line. Then T@B outlets are on the T@Bs GFI outlet. 
    2021 T@B 320 S Boondock
    2025 KZ Sportsmen 130RD
    2025 Ford Ranger
    The Finger Lakes of New York
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  • Dutch061
    Dutch061 Member Posts: 765
    edited March 2022
    Wow don't send the cops, but I always have plugged into my 15 Amp GFCI protected outlet. I run the Air conditioning, the refrigerator, charge the batteries. As long as I don't try and use 2 KW of Alde and run other things, it is fine. If I do, it trips the breaker, not the GFCI circuit.

    I have the compressor refrigerator in our 400 and have always used the 15 Amp GFCI circuit without a single issue. I also have the hardwired Progressive Industries surge protector. 

    Brad
    2020 400 BDL aka "Boonie"
    2022 Black Series HQ19 aka "Cricket"
    2021 F-250 Tremor with PSD aka "Big Blue"
    Concord, NC 
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  • Deb55
    Deb55 Member Posts: 293
    @Dutch061 we do the same with our 2018 T@B 400. Charge, use the AC, heat, lights, fridge, with no issue on the regular household current (with an adapter and surge protector, of course). It's nice to sit out there on a hot summer day with a cold cocktail and the AC! 
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  • Jay_and_Kat
    Jay_and_Kat Member Posts: 284
    So chiming in a bit here, depending on the age, if the outlet or the breaker for the outlet is an "arc fault" type, it CAN trip from things like a motor (such as a compressor or vacuum cleaner) starting up.

    My home office is on an arc fault breaker, and if I plug in the vacuum cleaner or my small heater in the winter, the breaker trips when they turn on.  If I use the outlet in another room on a non-AFCI breaker (extension cord) everything's happy.

    Also, @ScottG answered my question about trying to pre-chill the fridge while using a 15-30amp adapter plug, sounds like it should work.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Jay and Kat
    Tow vehicle:  2022 Jeep Gladiator Sport S + tow package
    Camper:  2022 T@B 400 Boondock w/Norcold 3-way fridge
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