Lithium ion battery?

idahoweedguy · August 2023

We are replacing the battery in our 2006 and I'm wondering if anyone has looked into putting a lithium ion battery into one of the vintage models?

pthomas745 · August 2023

Why not? Many owners have lithiums in the trailers. There are a few things to get up to speed on.

A lithium battery needs a higher "charging voltage" than a lead acid battery. The converter in your 2006 will not be able to "fully charge a lithium". It will most likely, bring it up to about 85 percent of "fully charged". For owners with trailers with that type of converter, they either: changed the converter to a new model. Or: use a solar set up with a lithium setting to "fully" charge it. Or: simply used a separate charger that can charge a lithium battery.

The other issue is a lithium battery will be slightly larger than your "stock" group 24 battery. There are newer batteries that have just come out that are "smaller" than a group 24. Which look very interesting.

There are many different vendors and sellers of lithium batteries, and owners here have used quite a few different products.

This is one thread that has a lot of this sort of discussion. Don't let the jargon and bafflegab get to you. It is not hard to do, just takes a bit of "learning" about what you are actually buying.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/16698/switching-to-lithium-so-many-choices/p1

You will see in the thread some very nice installs by highly skilled Forum members. Don't let that get you down! Mine went right in to the front tub very easily, with no real modifications at all.

Another source of info is Will Prowse, a YouTuber who has many videos where he tears open a lithium battery and shows you what you are actually buying. Very entertaining, and very educational. This page shows his "Lithium Battery recommendations". Many owners here have used purchased the batteries on this page, and you will see more in the thread posted above.

https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html

webers3 · August 2023

Lithium Ion? Is that what you want or is it Lithium Iron Phosphate. Big difference

elbolillo · August 2023

webers3 said:

Lithium Ion? Is that what you want or is it Lithium Iron Phosphate. Big difference

Actually LiFePo4 batteries and Lithium ion share many similarities. Lithium-ion batteries involve the movement of lithium ions between two electrodes in an electrolyte solution or gel. The difference is in the cathodes used. So a LiFePo4 battery is actually a type of lithium ion battery that uses a different cathode.

idahoweedguy · August 2023

I was using "lithium ion" in a generic sense actually referring to the Lithium Iron Phosphate type that dominate in RV applications. I've seen where our older converters may need to be changed out to accommodate the lithium technology. I am wondering if anyone has dealt with that or other issues in the older T@B's?

pthomas745 · August 2023

@idahoweedguy Many owners of "older" trailers have changed to lithium and have not changed anything else in the trailer, except maybe tweaking the settings of a solar controller.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11695/lithium-battery-and-converter-charger-advice-please/p1

webers3 · August 2023

I was able to fit AmpereTime 100ah battery in the tub of my 320s without a problem, also attached SmartShunt on top of the battery, it works great. I have not changed anything else on the trailer

AnOldUR · August 2023

@Idahocamper I've read that for longevity, the best state of charge (SOC) for a LiFePO4 is 10% to 90%, so the old style converter would be a better option for keeping the internal chemistry healthy. We store our T@B with an older controller in a garage and hooked up to shore power, so the batteries are maintained in this range.

That said, before a longer trip, we'd like to start with a 100% SOC. To add to what @pthomas745 said, along with setting the solar controller to lithium specs, we use a smart charger to top off the battery. To make this easy, I've added a (fused) cigarette light port tied directly to the batteries. This can be used to plug in a NOCO Genius10 the day before leaving to get a full charge.

This has worked well for us and is a huge improvement from the original lead acid battery.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/uy/fi8igstsx0bc.jpg

SLJ · August 2023

idahoweedguy said:

I've seen where our older converters may need to be changed out to accommodate the lithium technology. I am wondering if anyone has dealt with that or other issues in the older T@B's?

I did not switch out the older WFCO converter on our T@B. Too many problems with the new "Auto Detect" WFCO. Not worth the money or the headaches. Instead I added a Victron Smart Charger to charge my lithiums when on shore power. It was cheaper than replacing the WFCO. I just switch the batteries out at the batteries and the older WFCO supplies DC to everything when on shore power and AC to the smart charger for charging the batteries.

CanadianTabber · April 2024

Interesting thread ..I am looking to switch to lithium and also do not want to change anything.
Did anyone install a dc to dc converter from the tow vehicle battery to the trailer to charge while towing?
There is conflicting stories about the necessity to do this.

Thanks all!
Brent

pthomas745 · April 2024

@CanadianTabber there are many threads about a DC-DC converters, whether they are "needed" or not, etc. The "need" depends on how you might use battery power, etc. Most owners probably do not, but there are situations where an owner may really not want to be low on battery power when arriving at a campsite in a the dark with a battery a little low. (Say the need to use a CPAP, for example). Some owners just like to do those sorts of mods, too.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dc+to+dc+converter+site:tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com&client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=324d2da6d69578fe&sxsrf=ACQVn09wAyPaDxBQ0zlrWM_xwX5pVvhnlA:1714148783238&ei=r9UrZueBDtS4kPIP3Iq9wAs&ved=0ahUKEwinlcTqpeCFAxVUHEQIHVxFD7gQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=dc+to+dc+converter+site:tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiM2RjIHRvIGRjIGNvbnZlcnRlciBzaXRlOnRhYi1ydi52YW5pbGxhY29tbXVuaXR5LmNvbUjnO1C8CVjxNHABeACQAQGYAacBoAH5D6oBBDMzLjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgCgAgCYAwCIBgGSBwCgB_oL&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

elbolillo · April 2024

The issue regarding DC to DC chargers is that for them to work effectively to charge the batteries in the camper the wiring between the TV battery and house batteries really needs to be upgraded to provide reliable charging.

CanadianTabber · April 2024

Thanks pthomas745 and elbolillo for the information.
I do have the solar panel to top up (assuming good sunlight) and upgrading the 12v TV wire (#10) to a larger gauge wire to the trailer should be a consideration.

rzabel · April 8

I have installed a Victron DC/DC charger and ran separate large cables from the TV to charge my two 100 ah lithium batteries. I am always fully charged when I get to a campsite and can also use the truck to charge at camp if I can’t charge with the portable solar due to weather or location. I don’t like generators. Also, I’m on my third WFCO converter, using the auto-detect model now. Fingers crossed it will last longer than the last one which failed after 5 years.

Gomers2 · April 8

@rzabel, where do you tap into the TV power? 🤔 Where did you mount the DC/DC charger? Is it "smart," so you don't have to physically disconnect the TV when it is shut off? Did you run it through the Smart shunt so you get an accurate soc? Thanks for the info!

rzabel · April 9

The positive comes right off of my alternator with a 50A fuse mounted on my firewall. I upgraded my alternator from the stock 140A to 200A. I use it with two different trailers. My vintage Spartan has all Renogy equipment and the T@B has Victron. Both dc/dc chargers are “smart” and recognize when the truck turns off and disconnects. Both the Renogy and Victron systems have apps that show each instrument separately, so the smart shunt tells me the status of the batteries and the dc/dc charger gives the status of the charging.

rzabel · April 9

Forgot to answer about the location. I mounted the charger in the tongue box, where my batteries are located. I can take some photos tomorrow if you’re interested.

Gomers2 · April 9

@rzabel thank you that is great info. No pix needed, I get the idea, and I think we have different trailers anyway. I will need to check the capacity of my alternator. (We usually arrive with good charge from the rooftop solar, but I like this idea as a backup for long cloudy periods. We're using tank heaters this week and they chew up the AmpHrs!) Also, you must have some type of weatherproof quick connect for the 12V from TV that is mounted at the hitch? What did you use for that? And what gauge wire did you go with, like 6 awg? Thanks for the info!

BarrettWinsmere · April 9

Yes, lithium-ion (LiFePO4) can work in a 2006, but make sure your charging system is compatible (max ~14.4V). Cold weather can be an issue unless the battery has a built-in heater. They're lighter and last longer, but cost more upfront. Great upgrade if it fits your needs.

rzabel · April 9

Gomers2 said:

@rzabel thank you that is great info. No pix needed, I get the idea, and I think we have different trailers anyway. I will need to check the capacity of my alternator. (We usually arrive with good charge from the rooftop solar, but I like this idea as a backup for long cloudy periods. We're using tank heaters this week and they chew up the AmpHrs!) Also, you must have some type of weatherproof quick connect for the 12V from TV that is mounted at the hitch? What did you use for that? And what gauge wire did you go with, like 6 awg? Thanks for the info!

The connector is called an “Anderson” connector. Easy to find on Amazon in different sizes. I ran 1/0 cable on my truck and on my larger trailer, the 1948 Spartan Manor, as both vehicles had long runs to reach the batteries. For the T@B I used 6 awg.

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