Battleborn safety issue per Will Prowse?

Idgie · March 5

Is anyone out there following Will Prowse on YouTube about Battleborn battery safety issue of overheating?
I have a 2025 360CS black canyon with standard 100aH Battleborn battery and wondering if this has come up for any nucamp owners?? Thanks!

pthomas745 · March 5

It has been discussed in several threads. I've followed it closely at both his web page and the videos. It is hard to say how many other owners here are following it "closely". I know if I had a Battleborn I would be looking very closely at the positive battery terminal to look for discoloration, as described in the videos.

The problem I have for this issue is the difference in how batteries are charged and discharged in a trailer, compared to the charging and discharging rates someone powering a large solar array for a home, for example. Do we put that much stress on a battery? Does having the "large" battery setups with the Multiplus inverters with owners running the AC make a difference? These are hard questions to answer.

What is interesting in the various threads is learning how Battleborn has marketing agreements with major manufacturers across the RV industry, including NuCamp. Which is why the industry heavily promotes the Battleborn brand. Which is fine. The question will become what happens if Battleborn no longer supports their warranties in the future, or goes bankrupt.

In any case, a difficult thing to sort through.

This is one thread:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/20106/potential-battle-born-battery-issue

Yoshi_TAB · March 5

Have you seen the video with the 270Ah battery. Seems like same if not worse. That battery is used with lithium package. Make your own decision.

qhumberd · March 5

I agree with @pthomas745 that most RV users will not stress a 100Ah Battleborn from a charge and discharge perspective like Prowse's testing shows. What is more of a concern is the lack of build quality and vibration resistance (or not) built into this (or any) battery. So inspecting regularly is certainly prudent for any brand of battery.

My other concern is how Battleborn is dealing with valid warranty concerns, which is to offer to inspect if the owner ships the battery back at the owner's expense and then make a determination. For such an expensive battery this is pretty much no warranty at all.

Idgie · March 7

Much appreciation for any and all feedback/thoughts here. I’m a RN not an electrician 😉 The Battleborn response thus far does not appear to be exemplary and once our camper is up and about from winter I will be sure to inspect my battery regularly. Thank All!

MOS2 · March 7

So what should be inspected on the battleborn?

Idgie · March 8

"To address questions that have recently surfaced about terminal heating and fastener design, it is important to highlight that what some observers view as a failure is a safety device working exactly as intended. The aluminum nut used in our 100Ah packs’ positive terminal is a purpose-built thermal failsafe. It is engineered so that the plastic deforms and disconnects when excess heat is present.”

Might want to check out Will’s video onYouTube as I am absolutely no expert on this!

Grumpy_G · March 9

This is one of the most hilarious spin attempts ever. Nothing disconnects inside the battery, the nut and bolt merely lose clamping force when the plastic melts. Which makes the problem worse.

MOS2 · March 9

👍🏻

jkjenn · June 2

A couple of interesting developments:

Battleborn did a written interview with Mike Sokol: https://rvbusiness.com/qa-mike-sokol-battle-born-ceo-set-record-straight/

And they sued Will Prowse:

https://finance.yahoo.com/sectors/energy/articles/prowse-sued-dragonfly-energy-over-113000653.html

Grumpy_G · June 2

Maybe Dragonfly should have checked with DCS in Australia how effective lawsuits are …. :)
It's also ironic that the lawsuit claims Will Prowse modified the batteries while in the interview Denis Phares stated "The most stringent electrical test requires the battery to survive a short circuit where the primary protection mechanism is faulted. In our case, this amounted to completely bypassing the Battery Management System (BMS)". So it's ok to modify the battery for safety testing or not ?

jkjenn · June 2

I don't pretend to understand electricity at the level these guys are debating, but this part from Dragonfly rang true to me:

"In high-current DC systems like RV and off-grid applications, heat at or near battery terminals is almost always related to resistance in the external electrical system, not an internal battery issue.
Common causes include loose connections, improper torque, undersized wiring, or resistance elsewhere in the system such as bus bars, disconnects, or inverter connections. When current flows through a high-resistance point, it generates heat.
Heat can also travel along conductors, so it may appear to originate at the battery even when the source is elsewhere in the system."

There are always two sides to every story and I am glad to hear Dragonfly's side.

qhumberd · June 3

I was disappointed that the interview did not address the specific issues that Will Prowse documented on his video where he bought a new intact 100aH BB battery and tested it according to the specs sheet and the battery failed. Only then was the battery cut open. That battery was not attached to an RV, only to a cycle machine that measures discharge and charge cycles. And the battery failed.

So they sued him instead of responding to the issues he raised, saying all the problems as far as they know were due to user mistakes.

100aH BB test

rydfree · June 3

Has anyone here in the RV applications ever experienced any issues with the Battle Born batteries or is everyone just getting overly concerned with the video of a YouTube influencer ? You can pick most any product and find influencers that either hate it or love it.

jkjenn · June 3

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/221724#Comment_221724

I have never heard of a single issue from a nuCamp owner.

qhumberd · June 3

@jkjenn Agreed. We have not had a forum thread for BB battery concerns or failures. In fact I don’t recall reports for ANY brand of Lithium battery OEM or DIY failures. As opposed to, say Alde corrosion, which is literally years in length.

Yoshi_TAB · June 3

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/221734#Comment_221734

I am not making any judgement on the validity of the failure mechanism point out by Mr. Prowse.

But in the world of engineering failure hazard analysis, just because it has not happened, absolutely does not indicate the failure cannot happen or is not "lurking" sometime to happen. There are often some "not possible" failure scenarios in a system (maybe this is one of them), but probably not likely. Almost nothing is fool proof, even with double and triple redundancy.

When a chemical system is designed, all failure scenarios for all components are evaluated, from the most expected failure to the least likely.

To put the community at rest or say it cannot happen, BB should provide hard data for the root cause failure (by an independent group of engineers or scientists) of every component in the "battery "system" There are many types of hazard analysis and I'm sure if this ends up in the legal system, BB will be required to provide one.

rydfree · June 3

If you approach any issue with the expectations of finding a problem, you probably will. From what I've read, this seems like a lot of paranoia and fear mongering. Nobody has had a problem, But But What if !!!

pthomas745 · June 3

We have had some unexplained and unable to diagnose issues with Battleborn battery setups in the trailers just completely shutting down with little or no explanation. After checking every possible item that could cause this (fuses, breakers, battery switches, etc) the battery (s) suddenly just "came back on" with no explanation, and the Victrons showing normal voltages, etc. Of course, these sorts of things are impossible to explain, and my thoughts here are anecdotal.

This is not just Will Prowse raising this issue. If you go back to the DIY Solar Forum original post on this situation, the first reports of battery failures of the positive post going back to 2023.

It is hard to say how this sort of issue effects the smaller battery setups in most of our trailers. Many owners with 100 amp hour batteries who rarely drive them to low levels and then charge at high levels will "probably" never have an issue. But there are owners out there with the larger 400 amp hour setups (and probably larger) who are pushing the AC with their inverters, etc, and then using higher capacity chargers that "might" be pushing this odd "safety feature". Or maybe it can happen with even smaller setups with inverters and an unfortunate choice of hair dryer.

It isn't enough to put our head in the sand and say "Will Prowse is just a You Tuber"……..if you have a large battery setup from Battleborn, or any Battleborn, for that matter, you should inspect the battery for the discoloration of the positive terminal that indicates the overheating problem. This is the message a Battleborn owner should take from this controversy.

Yoshi_TAB · June 3

"If you approach any issue with the expectations of finding a problem, you probably will"

Correct…that is the point and the exact reason hazard analysis shall be conducted on any system that could potentially harm people, equipment or facilities. It is OSHA/CFR law that it be done. Manufacturers have no choice if they perform manufacturing. How well they are done is another question. Accidents do happen, but the purpose is to look ahead and put mitigations in place when potential hazards are identified for both the end user of the product and those who manufacturer the product. There is a lot of good that comes from them, including operator safety and final product user safety. HAs also often identify engineering design flaws.

rydfree · June 4

"…..if you have a large battery setup from Battleborn, or any Battleborn, for that matter, you should inspect the battery for the discoloration of the positive terminal that indicates the overheating problem. This is the message a Battleborn owner should take from this controversy."

As everyone should be doing with any potentially hazardous system, be it lithium, lead acid battery or propane etc.

You need to routinely check condition and note any irregularities.

I had a popular well reviewed Amazon solar charge controller decide one day to just keep charging my lead acid battery on my pond aerator until it exploded. It destroyed the enclosure it was in and sounded like a shotgun blast from the house 1000' away up the hill. I would have hated for that thing to have been in a small camper . $..t happens.

jkjenn · June 5

If you are interested, Mike Sokol, who I have followed for years, has been conducting thorough testing in the BB batteries and posting about it on his Substack since April. He is very detailed about his methods and replies to comments and questions about his approach. To date, he has not been able to replicate the failure. He just ordered a vibration table to try to replicate RV movement.

Mike Sokol Blog

EEdit To add link: Archive - RVelectricity https://share.google/C4WPiJQF6e0NIFgj3

rydfree · August 26

Thought I would revisit this thread and see if anyone here has used these stick-on fire extinguishers. I think I will put a couple in the wheel well with the two Battleborn 100ah batteries.

FEROSTICKER - The world's smallest automatic fire extinguisher

Dasieg · August 27

I had a 100ah Battle born in my tab 400 for four years. No problems at all other than the fact that it could not handle more than one or two days of boondocking without being depleted (despite solar). It always recharged promptly and fully however. I replaced it with a 230 ah Litime just now. The battle born terminals were pristine and charged to full voltage when pulled.

elbolillo · August 27

For what it is worth, I have a 400ah BB bank in my Tab 400. As of yet I have not run into any issues. I regularly check all my connections and have measured the temp of the battery posts and everything is normal and running great.

Okpete · August 27

Will Prowse does not have credentials. Not associated with with any recognized testing facilities. I go to various meetups and read most Nucamp forums. I have not heard or seen anyone having a BB failure. Certainly overpriced

rydfree · August 27

I agree, no issues here with my 2 Battleborn batteries. I just think a non-toxic fire suppression system would be prudent in any brand battery system. I'll probably put one in the compartment with the Victron charger/ inverter also.

pthomas745 · August 28

We have been around and around with the Will Prowse- Battleborn issue. If you don't believe there have been any "reported failures", you haven't looked closely enough at the several testing videos he has done, and the dozens of Battleborn owners who have reported and documented failures of the Battleborn. Of course, we probably have not had any failures in any of the NuCamp products, but claiming the issue does not exist and should not be watched for is the wrong approach.

We have seen plenty of owners reporting "my battery just shut down", everything possible is examined to discover the issue, and then…like magic, the battery comes back to life. Is this the plastic "safety mechanism" in action? Impossible to tell, unless you know exactly what to look for.

The RV industry as a whole is desperate to support Battleborn, because when they go out of business, and all the owners warranty promises disappear, it will all come right back to the manufacturers.

qhumberd · August 28

but claiming the issue does not exist and should not be watched for is the wrong approach.

This is the clear difference between anecdote and science, which is getting a pretty bad rap of late. Reminds me of the film "Don't Look Up".

I for one am waiting for more testing with Mike Sokol, who is doing what science would call "replication" studies. But I am also quite concerned with what I have seen so far.

Also, I am curious, @rydfree about the fire suppression system stopping a fire that is not a typical combustion but driven by a lithium battery cell failure creating a whole lot of heat.

rydfree · August 29

From the Will Prowse video it looked more like the plastic case was fueling the fire and it took quite a while. I'm not convinced we would see that type of an issue but the fire suppression should keep the other combustibles from going up quickly and give adequate time to react if you are inside the RV when it happened. I am going to be moving my two Battleborn batteries to my solar pond aerator setup and replacing with 300ah setup in the RV anyway. Better to be safe than sorry just in case. I will be putting a couple of the fire suppression sticks in the solar pond aerator setup as well since it resides in a gazebo on the pond island. They may put the fire out or not if one ever does occur. I may test one of those sticks by purposely starting a lithium fire in an enclosure with a couple of my old large RC LiPo batteries. Lipo is much more difficult of a fire than the cells used in our batteries so it would be interesting.

ginsbuj · August 30

Battleborn in a 2019 Tab 320 worked great for 5 years. Once I even depleted it and it shut off as intended and I had to restart with a jump start without issues. I have 2 in my 360 and they are great. These influences are becoming way too powerful on the Internet.

Battleborn safety issue per Will Prowse?

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