Cool Cat A/C doesn't seem to operate properly in Tab 400

bellimages

As always I like to understand how things work. Our A/C unit puzzles me. 

When our Tab 400 sits in the sun while I’m out hiking, naturally it builds up heat inside. When I step inside I turn on the A/C.

I feel that it's important to note that the following situation seems to occur most often when the outside temp may only be around 55-65 degrees. Under these circumstances, the fan on the A/C unit will turn on (without activating the compressor). It will run for 30 seconds (+/-), and turn off. A couple minutes later, it will do the same thing. Sometimes this repeats multiple times, without kicking on the compressor. EVENTUALLY the compressor kicks on, but may not run long enough to do much cooling.

WHY would the unit cycle on and off, on and off, on and off, on and off .... before deciding to finally kick on the compressor? For some reason, either the thermostat, or some electrical circuitry on the Cool Cat, are causing that strange behavior. Makes no sense!!!

Have any ideas why this occurs? And does it do any harm to the unit? Could the problem stem from the fact that I'm running it off a Honda 2000 generator?

NOTE: When it’s hot OUTSIDE, the unit runs as I think it should — cooling the interior by kicking on the compressor. 

Sharon_is_SAM

I would suggest that you simply exhaust the warm air via the overhead fan and not use the A/C.  I think the 2018 400 Cool Cat A/C thermostat is located in the panel next to the door and it is effected by the temp at the door.  I would not expect the A/C to run if it is only 55 - 65 outside.  What temperature do you have it set at?

Verna

Clarification needed, please. Is this the Cool Cat that is under the driver’s side of the dinette, or is it the Air8 under the rear bed?

bellimages

Sharon - I realize that A/C units do not run properly when outdoor temperatures fall to 40 degrees (+/-). But that's not the scenario that I describe here. 55-65 degrees isn't cold enough to keep a compressor unit from operating properly.

I keep the A/C set to about 70 degrees. I prefer A/C to open windows because it removes pollen, and humidity.

bellimages

Verna - It's a 2018 Tab 400. At that time they were only putting the Cool Cat under the front dinette bench. 

Denny16

Try setting the AC to 65F and see if the compressor kicks in then?  I have similar clear sunny days here with temp in the mid to high 50’s, will try this with my Cool Cat AC in the 2018 TaB400.
cheers

Verna

bellimages said:

Verna - It's a 2018 Tab 400. At that time they were only putting the Cool Cat under the front dinette bench. 

Thanks, @bellimages. I changed the title from “Artic” to “Cool” to help with “searches” at a future date. 

bellimages

Denny - I'm not sure if I set it lower to try to overcome the problem. I haven't used it since last fall. It's an on-going problem though. I never had this problem with the inexpensive (in the wall) A/C unit that was installed in our Aliner camper. It simply worked .... as any air conditioner should. 

Denny16

How well an AC works, depends on where the thermostat is and where in the cabin it is reading the temperature.  From what I understand, the thermostat is on the control panel near the door, and drafts from the door effect it’s reading.  That is why I suggested lowering the temp.  

bellimages

I feel that the real issue is being overlooked here.

Regardless of the temp inside, WHY would the unit cycle on and off, on and off, on and off, on and off .... before deciding to finally kick on the compressor? For some reason, either the thermostat, or some electrical circuitry on the Cool Cat, are causing that strange behavior.

As I said, I've never seen a cheap old style window air conditioner do this. 

Denny16

That is a good question, and sounds like you need to have the your Cool Cat AC serviced to find out why.  It was 58-60 degrees F outside this afternoon here, and the inside of my TaB400 had warmed up to 80 inside.  I turned the Cool Cat AC on, set the temp to 70F and let it run, the compressor came on after about one minute or less, and ran continuously until it reached 70F inside the TaB took about 10 minutes or so.  I had no cycling as you described.  

Your comment here is the first complaint like this that I have heard about the Cool Cat AC, most have been about how well it works.  I did see a post where someone had a coolant leak, which caused the AC not to work very well.  You may have a similar issue.  Did you try setting the thermostat to 60F (snowflake symbol showing on the bottom of the display (which shows AC mode, instead of heat mode) and see if the compressor will kick on and stay on?
cheers

simonseyz

I would say, its the Honda 2000 generator, it does't have the amps to run the Cool Cat.
 Try the same set up on shore power?

N7SHG_Ham

@simonseyz maybe, I run mine with a 2200i Honda at elevation up to 3000 feet at least. I suppose it may be lack of power from the generator but not necessarily.

simonseyz

True, I run mine with a 2200i, @bellimages  is using just a 2000, it might be tripping the thermal over load on the compressor?

Denny16

But the OP states, when it is warmer outside, this setup works to cool his camper.
cheers

jameskuzman

Hmm... this doesn't sound normal at all. 

Putting aside for a moment that the Dometic thermostat isn't ideally located for accuracy, if the temperature inside the camper as interpreted by the thermostat is higher than the set point and its set to Cool mode with the fan on Auto, then the compressor and fan should both turn on. 

You mentioned this occurs when you're running on a 2,000W generator. The Cool Cat is right at the limit of what that generator can put out at startup (though it's fine once it's up and running), so I would try it on shore power with the same temperature scenario and rule out that either the generator isn't putting out enough oomph or the thermal protection circuit in the Cool Cat isn't tripping (I'd put a beer on the latter). 

You also mentioned that this isn't an issue when the outdoor temperature is higher, but if the issue is temperature-related, it should happen on both shore power and generator power. 

I would try to separate those two factors - power source vs. temperature - to try and isolate the cause. 

Jim

bellimages

THANKS JIM. Your comments make perfect sense. And I'll happily share a beer (note that I only drink IPA microbrews, if that works .... lol). 

I'm considering upgrading to one of Honda's new 2200 generators, once they are on the market. BUT, it would be cheaper to install a MicroAir Easy Start 364 .... IF .... that would do the trick. From what I have read, it feeds power at the correct level to start up a CoolCat A/C unit.

bellimages

N7SHG_Ham said:

@simonseyz maybe, I run mine with a 2200i Honda at elevation up to 3000 feet at least. I suppose it may be lack of power from the generator but not necessarily.

When did you purchase your Honda 2200 generator? I have looked all over for one, and have learned that Honda has stopped the sale of them due to a technical issue. 

simonseyz

There is a recall on a batch of them for a fuel leak, check with Honda for serial numbers on affected units. They still are selling them, check Northern Tool & Equip.

N7SHG_Ham

@bellimages I purchased last fall, tried it in driveway and put away for winter! I bought mine from genconex already converted to run on propane. Even with the slightly less power of propane and being at just under 3000 feet at my house it had now issues starting and running the cool cat. I still may add the MicroAir for less stress on the compressor and the generator.

By sound, the microwave was more of a struggle than the cool cat...

jameskuzman

bellimages said:

THANKS JIM. Your comments make perfect sense. And I'll happily share a beer (note that I only drink IPA microbrews, if that works .... lol). 

I'm considering upgrading to one of Honda's new 2200 generators, once they are on the market. BUT, it would be cheaper to install a MicroAir Easy Start 364 .... IF .... that would do the trick. From what I have read, it feeds power at the correct level to start up a CoolCat A/C unit.

Be forewarned that I haven't yet found an IPA that I like - they've all been too bitter for me - but I'm told that's not the case with all of them, so we may have to make our way through more than one bottle until you find one that'll change my mind ;-) 

@stro goes back to The Mother Ship next month for some minor warranty repairs and a fan upgrade, so I was considering having them put in the Easy Start for me. Before going to the expense of ordering the part, I asked a friend to bring over his Yamaha 2,000W generator to see if it was even necessary. 

We tried Economy mode first. As soon as the compressor tried to start, it tripped the overload on the generator. We reset it then tried it in the regular full-power mode. Same result. So it seems 2,000W - as suspected - is not enough to start the Cool Cat. 

I'll probably hold off on the Easy Start until I get closer to buying the generator which won't be any time in the near future. 

Jim

TABaker

I'm rarely on the forum, but am today and thought I'd jump in.  I have the Cool Cat in my 2007.  All  DM T@Bs had that as their cooling unit, and it was widely known among DM owners that the Honda 2000 was a hit and miss as to whether it would run the Cool Cat as it cycles off and on.  Only a small percentage of them would, and it was attributed to the fact that there are mico differences in each generator and Cool Cat, and a small percentage of people got lucky with their combo.  Obviously over the years there have been some changes (I assume) in both, so it's interesting to know whether a Honda 2000 will run it in the 400.
BTW, I love my Cool Cat.  It's a beast!
Also, I "heard" the Cool Cat going into the 400 doesn't have the heat mode option, which is wonderful if it's true.  Can anyone comment on that?

Denny16

Our 2018 400 TaB has both cool and heat modes with the Cool Cat, tested this and both cooking and heating modes work just fine.  
cheers

peterac50

2019 tab 400 - both air conditioning and heat modes - both worked fine all last season. But you need to adjust thermostat to take into account that it is near the door. Have read that the Honda 2000 may not be the best choice for running this unit. But I don't know for sure - have not researched or sized the best choice for this unit.

TABaker

I was hoping it no longer had the heat mode.  When these sealed units begin to go bad at the end of their life, they start to come on in heat although the thermostat is set to cool because that's their default.  Apparently that can't be fixed (although I read a blog where a guy states he has fixed it) and the unit has to be replaced.

peterac50

My 2019 tab 400 is in storage so I'm working on memory here but the cooling and heating commands are separate - e.g. you either turn on the air conditioner or the heat pump. If the heat setting is reached, it turns off. If the cooling temp is reached, the compressor shuts down. In my experience, I have never seen the unit switch from heating to cooling on its own (or visa versa).

N7SHG_Ham

The Cool Cat doesn't actually have a heating element, it operates between heating and cooling with a reversing valve. I suppose if that goes bad it would be stuck in one mode only and being a closed system it may be junk at that time, although it is possible a shop that is more than a parts replacer could replace that valve and add refergiant ports to recharge, but mostly I think a throw away unit as it isn't made to service from the factory.

A reversing valve a type of valve and is a component in a heat pump, that changes the direction of refrigerant flow. By reversing the flow of refrigerant, the heat pump refrigeration cycle is changed from cooling to heating or vice versa.

N7SHG_Ham

Re a 2000w class of generator, they are definitely NOT all made the same. Also bear in mind newer Honda's are 2200w vs the older ones that were 2000w.

All I know is my Honda 2200i purchased new last fall will start and run the Cool Cat in my driveway at 3000 feet elevation. This is on Propane so that should have slightly less power than gasoline and it still works.

That being said, it is probably cheaper to buy a cheap 2k generator and add a soft start. It is entirely the locked rotor amps for a fraction of a second that causes a 2k class of generator to not work. Once running any 2kw generator should be adequate as running amps is only about 1/2 the available capacity.

TABaker

N7SHG_Ham said:

The Cool Cat doesn't actually have a heating element, it operates between heating and cooling with a reversing valve. I suppose if that goes bad it would be stuck in one mode only and being a closed system it may be junk at that time, although it is possible a shop that is more than a parts replacer could replace that valve and add refergiant ports to recharge, but mostly I think a throw away unit as it isn't made to service from the factory.

A reversing valve a type of valve and is a component in a heat pump, that changes the direction of refrigerant flow. By reversing the flow of refrigerant, the heat pump refrigeration cycle is changed from cooling to heating or vice versa.

It's the reversing valve that goes bad.  You can Google the subject of the valve, and most of the comments come from Class B forums since many use the Cool Cat.

bellimages

jameskuzman said:

bellimages said:

THANKS JIM. Your comments make perfect sense. And I'll happily share a beer (note that I only drink IPA microbrews, if that works .... lol). 

I'm considering upgrading to one of Honda's new 2200 generators, once they are on the market. BUT, it would be cheaper to install a MicroAir Easy Start 364 .... IF .... that would do the trick. From what I have read, it feeds power at the correct level to start up a CoolCat A/C unit.

Be forewarned that I haven't yet found an IPA that I like - they've all been too bitter for me - but I'm told that's not the case with all of them, so we may have to make our way through more than one bottle until you find one that'll change my mind ;-) 

@stro goes back to The Mother Ship next month for some minor warranty repairs and a fan upgrade, so I was considering having them put in the Easy Start for me. Before going to the expense of ordering the part, I asked a friend to bring over his Yamaha 2,000W generator to see if it was even necessary. 

We tried Economy mode first. As soon as the compressor tried to start, it tripped the overload on the generator. We reset it then tried it in the regular full-power mode. Same result. So it seems 2,000W - as suspected - is not enough to start the Cool Cat. 

I'll probably hold off on the Easy Start until I get closer to buying the generator which won't be any time in the near future. 

Jim

OMG yes. Imperial IPAs, Double IPAs, and Triple IPAs tend to have sweetness, along with the taste of the hops. 

I've ran my Cool Cat off the Honda 2000 several times on Economy mode. It would always rev up to full speed, then go back to Economy after a few seconds. But I sure would like to have an Easy Start. Did Austin tell you that they would add one? He's AWESOME (in case you've never been to the factory). Make sure you get a tour!

bellimages

TABaker said:

I'm rarely on the forum, but am today and thought I'd jump in.  I have the Cool Cat in my 2007.  All  DM T@Bs had that as their cooling unit, and it was widely known among DM owners that the Honda 2000 was a hit and miss as to whether it would run the Cool Cat as it cycles off and on.  Only a small percentage of them would, and it was attributed to the fact that there are mico differences in each generator and Cool Cat, and a small percentage of people got lucky with their combo.  Obviously over the years there have been some changes (I assume) in both, so it's interesting to know whether a Honda 2000 will run it in the 400.
BTW, I love my Cool Cat.  It's a beast!
Also, I "heard" the Cool Cat going into the 400 doesn't have the heat mode option, which is wonderful if it's true.  Can anyone comment on that?

TABaker said:

I'm rarely on the forum, but am today and thought I'd jump in.  I have the Cool Cat in my 2007.  All  DM T@Bs had that as their cooling unit, and it was widely known among DM owners that the Honda 2000 was a hit and miss as to whether it would run the Cool Cat as it cycles off and on.  Only a small percentage of them would, and it was attributed to the fact that there are mico differences in each generator and Cool Cat, and a small percentage of people got lucky with their combo.  Obviously over the years there have been some changes (I assume) in both, so it's interesting to know whether a Honda 2000 will run it in the 400.
BTW, I love my Cool Cat.  It's a beast!
Also, I "heard" the Cool Cat going into the 400 doesn't have the heat mode option, which is wonderful if it's true.  Can anyone comment on that?

The manual says that it has heating capabilities (since it's a heat pump). I tried to use it, but it wasn't successful. No need because the Aldi heating unit is EXCELLENT.