New truck - towing questions

xdr

We brought a 2020 Ram 1500, 5.7l V8, 3.92 rear axle ratio and the trailer tow package. We now have ~1000 miles towing our 2021 Tab400 BDL with it. I am a bit surprised by the mileage - we are getting on average 10-10.5 MPG towing. Without the trailer, combined mileage is ~16 MPG and 19-20 open road MPG. We do live at altitude - 5K' +. 
Should I consider the towing mileage typical for a V8 gas engine?
I keep wondering if I should have purchased the eco-diesel Ram. 

Verna

Typical across the board for the Big 3. 

My Ford F-150 V6 Eco-Boost gets 20 to 24, not towing, then it goes down to 12 to 15 towing. I have not had it in any mountains except Tennessee last fall. 

Cbusguy

Sounds about right.

Looking at a diesel for my next truck.    Not sure I am liking the emissions and related failures.  The def fluid is an issue and reading about reduced power mode after 50 miles is a no go for me.....

I will pay the fuel economy penalty with standard fuel.

DougH

@Cbusguy ; I'm waiting to see what the mileage is like with the diesel Jeep Gladiator so I can get the off road version of the T@B 500 with 1000W of solar.  But spouse and I have driven diesels for years and love the mileage.  I often get over 50mpg averaged over a road trip when not towing the 320, and get 20-32mpg when towing (depending on wind and terrain).  However, like you mentioned, wife had one DEF sensor failure already on her diesel SUV, and it was $$$ to fix.

Tampakayaker

Sounds about right.

I have a 2006 Ram 4 door.  In FL on the interstate I can get 22- 24 MPG on cruise control without the T@B.

With the T@B I get 12-15 at best.

qhumberd

@xdr We just took delivery of our 2019 TAB 400 BDL and drove it 400 miles from Columbus back to TN and we got 11-12 mpg on our Toyota  Tundra Crew Cab 5.7 V8 (I believe the same engine size you have). We get 15-16 not towing. We were on interstate going 60 mph average for most of the trip.

gspdx

Same here with a 2018 F-150.  My numbers are similar to Verna's.  I would look at the cost of the diesel and see if it makes sense to go that way.  They are very spendy and I am not sure the increased mileage will pay for it.  

AirBoss

Seems we all share your pain! Yep, that's about right. I'm '04 Chevy Tahoe, 5.3L V8 with OEM tow package. Get 12-14MPG towing. 

And when gas was selling at $2.79/gal here in CA for a while I felt like I was 16 years old again. Gas was cheap...and I'm on Restriction! 

xdr

Nice to know that I am in the ballpark MPG wise...thank you all. I assume as the truck gets more broken in, the MPG will improve slightly. 
Thanks again for the feedback. 

DenisP

My Tundra 5.7l averages 11.5 mpg towing our 400 depending on terrain. I budget 10 mpg which gives a buffer for actual mileage. On a long trip cross country (9500 miles total) which included 12 Us National parks and 4 Canadian NP, we averaged 12.4 mpg which included towing and excursions. 

NorthIsUp

In comparison, our Toyota Sequoia with the 4.7L V-8 gets about 16 MPG normal and 10 MPG towing our 400 including a trip to/from the Sierras to uCamp2019 and back over seven weeks. Winter mileage is 5% worse. 

xdr

I did a comparison with a friends Nissan Titan diesel. He tows a small trailer ~800 lbs heavier than our Tab400. we did a trip together this last weekend. He averaged 13.5mpg while I was at 10.5mpg. I used that data to build a model in excel. Based on a theoretical 2800 mile trip, the cost delta was smaller than I thought. the model assumed both trucks have the same size fuel tanks and the fuel cost were taken from an app my wife has on her phone. The model needs lots of refinement, but at first glance, using the Nissan diesel example, the cost savings is quite small...diesel = better mpg but higher fuel costs and higher purchase price. 

MuttonChops

xdr said:

..diesel = better mpg but higher fuel costs and higher purchase price. 

And in many cases higher annual maintainance costs.
Don't get me wrong I've owned and love diesel power . . . but
First due to patent rights the Big-3 would never pay**
Second Big-3 charging outrageous (not justified) cost added
Third on-going EPA war (right or wrong) against diesel emissions.
Means diesel except for commercial truck is going away . . . some type of electric to follow

** Dr Diesel could not get US Auto Makers to pay for the use of his engine.  It was cheaper for them to stay with gasoline.
Another good example is the Phillips Screw Head, Dodge came up with it so they would not have to use & pay for the Roberts Head . . . Canadian square drive.
Free market capitalism does not equal best solution.

Cbusguy

Yep these workers doing deletes on the diesels are going to hurt the rest of us

Pretty sure I didn't post worker—you didn’t, as I changed the language—Verna.

pthomas745

I have a VW Touareg diesel.  I can get 18mpg while towing along at 60ish on an interstate.  And even higher MPG on main roads that are not interstates and have lower speed limits, averaging 55 or so.  With a nice tailwind or on a long downhill trip, I've even seen up to 25mpg. 

The Touareg is a 3.0 liter diesel, 240 HP  I did a quick look at Nissan Titans, and the "standard" engine for 2019 was "5.6 liter, DOHC, direct-injected V8".  400HP.  In other words:  huge.  And, it would be way overkill for a TAB with a 9000 to 12000 lb towing capacity, depending on the year.  Even my T-Reg is rated to 7700 pounds and is overkill, but the towing mileage is pretty decent.  Buy a big engine, and expect to pay more for fuel.

Most of the "what is a good tow vehicle" threads wind up in the same ballpark:  buy a big V8.  It may not be the best choice for Tab products.

Tundra57

Apart from the motor, IMO the tow vehicle must be heavier than the trailer. Just because the frame and suspension will handle a particular towing weight, doesnt mean it will be stable, especially when the trailer weight approaches the actual weight of the TV (nothing to do with tiwing capacity).

Denny16

Agreed Tundra, I tow a Tab 400 with a Jeep Gladiator V6 Pentastar will make 285 horsepower and 260 pounds-feet of torque, and get 14 -16 mpg at 50-60 mph.  Max towing capacity is 600/6,000 lbs, which I consider about right for the  TaB 400.  Quite a few TaB owners who start out with mid size SUVs end up getting a mid size truck.  Traveling Robert and Patrick of Travels with Delaney, ended up trading to a larger mud size truck TV.  

Cheers

ChrisFix

Another big difference between mid-size trucks and SUVs is wheelbase, which is another important towing factor...the longer the better, and other than truck-based SUVs (like Surburban/Tahoe), the mid-size pickups have at least a 10" longer wheelbase than large SUVs (VW Atlas, Kia Telluride, etc). The Honda Ridgeline, which everyone says is a Honda Pilot with a bed, has a 14" longer wheelbase than the Pilot, and that actually does make it tow better.

Cbusguy

Agree with Chris wheel base on TV is important longer is better for towing.......

tabiphile

The ideal TV has lot's of motor, a strong truckish frame and rear wheel drive with selectable 4 wheel drive. Anything else involves compromises. The towrag is all wheel drive...that works.

xdr

Well, I have plenty of wheelbase, selectable 4wd and more than enough motor judging by its appetite 🙂. Actually I do really like setting the cruise control and the truck just motors up whatever grade comes our way.  That’s were the V8 shines-along with the 8 speed transmission. 

Denny16

Your MPG is less because of the low gear rear end in your truck, which requires higher engine rpm.  My Dakota had the lower rear end for towing. which was part of the tow package to handle heavier trailers.  The lower gear ratio eats your MPGs.  On my Jeep Gladiator, I opted for the higher gear rear axle ratio on the Sport S, which is more than enough to handle thenTaB400.  The Gladiator also has a longer wheel base than my Dakota did, and I am getting 4-6 more mpg too.

Good luck with your new Ram, it is more than adequate for your TaB.

4ncar

Had a Jeep GC with the ecodiesel; loved it. Put 90,000 miles on it, bought it with 60,000. Towing a 320s, got 20mpg (Hwy) and 37with out trailer (Hwy). I traded it for my Colorado Mini dura Max. I get similar performance.

torque is what you want: torque gets you to speed, horsepower keeps you there.

both trucks serve me well, fuel is more costly, but the MPG offsets the number of times your at the station! Yes, sensors fail and need to replaced, but so do sensors(O2) on gas.  Def is cheap.

neither truck ever left me on the side of the road.

Pintoplumber

Denny16 said:

Your MPG is less because of the 3:92 low gear rear end in your truck, which requires higher engine rpm than a 4:10.  My Dakota had the 3:92 which was part of the tow package to handle heavier trailers.  The lower gear ratio eats your MPGs.  On my Jeep Gladiator, I opted for the higher gear rear axle ratio on the Sport S, which is more than enough to handle thenTaB400.  The Gladiator also has a longer wheel base than my Dakota did, and I am getting 4-6 more mpg too.

Good luck with your new Ram, it is more than adequate for your TaB.

I think you have your explanation reversed in your 1st sentence. A 4.10 ratio will require 4.1 revolutions of the driveshaft to get 1 revolution of the axle. More rpm’s than the 3.92. I changed the rearend in my ‘54 F100 from a 3.92 to a 4.27 for drag racing and towing. Dennis

Denny16

You are right, got it the wrong way round.  Thanks.
cheers

webers3

The discussions about TVs always amuse me; we buy the smallest trailer we can and look for the largest tow vehicle to tow it, ironic.

Denny16

Yes, yes it is.  But the TaB 400 is not that small, weight wise.
cheers

AirBoss

We humans a funny lot, to be sure. That said, this forum is chock full of threads about making sure your TV is capable of towing at least 40%-50% (+/-) more than the GAWR of your T@B. So, with 400's at close to 4000#'s, seems logical to find a TV that is capable of towing over 6000#'s. 

Denny16

A 6,000/600 rating is more than enough for a TaB 400, 5,000/500 would be the minimum.  Having the extra capability makes mountain driving a better experience, and gives more room for extra gear.
Cheers

TNOutback

Your mileage experience seems about right; our F-150 4x4 with V6 turbo mpg towing our 400 is about the same.  I can get better towing mileage if I slow down, but who wants to do that?  . I loved my Duramax diesel with our old camper; towing was carefree and great mileage.  The reality though, is that our towing miles were 5-10% of total miles driven, and the price premium for the engine and the fuel didn’t make financial sense for us to continue with a diesel TV, so when we sold the old travel trailer, the Duramax also sold.  Diesel is $0.60 to $1.00 per gallon higher than regular gas too.  Our F-150 is a great tow vehicle and I am very happy with it, and better matches our household needs than a big 3/4 ton diesel.

xdr

Thanks for all the replies to this, in particular seeing the mpg from others really helps keep the right perspective. I realize some think a full size truck is overkill, but I like the extra storage and the extra margin. 

Thanks again.