New Tab 400 BDL owners

TresK3

My wife and I have been looking at camping options (trailers and vans) for about two years now.  A few months ago we came across the Tab 400 BDL at a dealer in Columbus, OH (formerly Hadocy's) and really liked it.  I think I'd seen photos before - we looked at so much on the web - but didn't realize how nice they were until we stepped inside. Now we own one! (Almost).

Next step is the tow vehicle.  We have a Sienna mini-van, which specs out as just big enough, but it's older and we really need something beefier.  Looking at the Honda Ridgeline, Ford F-150, Chevy Colorado, and Toyota Tacoma (or maybe Tundra).  I've been reading much in the Trailer & Towing discussion, but if anyone had TV thoughts, I'd love to hear them!

Thanks - this looks like a great bunch!

Denny16

You want a TV with at least 6,000 lbs tow capacity, and 600lbs tongue weight rating.  A basic F150, new Ranger, Colorado, or the Tundra should work fine.  I would give the Tacoma and Honda a miss.  

Out of all these, the Chevy Colorado would be my first choice, easy to get serviced in most areas, and handles well when towing.  Traveling Robert uses a Colorado to pull his Winne Mini across the country and back, without issues.
cheers

ChrisFix

@Denny16
The Honda Ridgeline is an excellent tow vehicle for the T@B400...and unless you have personal experience to the contrary, you're not helping anyone by saying it should be ruled out. Perhaps it would be the perfect TV for @TresK3, perhaps not, but it should be considered if its attributes match up to their needs.

I've got just under 2,500 miles of towing experience with my Honda Ridgeline and T@B400 and it has been both a great towing experience, and a generally great car and truck. And it is more than sufficiently rated for a T@B400 class of towing.

And Traveling Robert also pulled the same Minnie Winnie across the country in an old Kia Sorento for a long time before he got the Colorado.

Denny16

Grand, glad the Honda is working out for you.  I was just expressing my personal opinion, based on reading other experiences using smaller tow vehicles.  There are lots of vehicles, including SUVs that are “rated” to tow a TaB400.  As I said, “I” would give the smaller rigs a miss, but that is my preference.

 Front wheel drive vehicles are not the best choice, rear wheel drive is better for towing.  I have used both, and prefer rear wheel drive for a variety of reasons.  The Ridgeline starts out at 3500 lbs, not enough, and you need to go up to the all wheel drive to get 5,000+ towing capacity.

Robert traded up to his Colorado for his cross country trip, while his Kia was OK, he wanted a better, more capable TV.  A lost of TaB400 owners starting out with small SUV type TV, end up trading up to a larger rig, for a better towing experience.  

What you get for a TV and use, is a matter of your towing experience and personal preference.  Also where you are towing, flat plains vs Rocky Mountains makes a difference.  I am not saying the smaller rigs do not work,  I am saying a larger towing vehicle will be more enjoyable to drive whilst towing, especially if going cross country. 

Cheers

ChrisFix

Traveling Robert got a new vehicle because the shop he brought his Kia to for a tuneup broke a piece of spark plug off into the cylinder, started the car and tanked the engine...and never could get the replacement engine working properly.

Is the Colorado a reasonable option for a T@B, yes I think it is.
Is the Honda Ridgeline a reasonable option for a T@B, yes I know it is.

Verna

One very important part, regardless of which model you buy, is to get a factory tow package. With the tow package comes a transmission cooler and an oil cooler, to help keep from damaging those two units during towing. 

Tabalicious

I just bought a Tab 400 /boondock I have a Sienna XLE. Went to the U-Haul and asked for a receiver, hitch/ball and 7 way wiring, etc., then headed to the dealership to pick up my new Tab. The hitch with a 2" drop, was too low for the Sienna so I bought another hitch with a 4" rise which was no better. The van just couldn't tow the Tab safely. The other issue I had was the hitch was only 6 inches long and when you back up, or turn the corner tight, the bumper of the van would hit the boondock grill in front of the camper. I ended up having to spend a bunch of money trying out three hitches, one from Uhaul, one from the dealership and one from Texas Hitch, then transferring wiring and brake controller plus a new receiver to my Toyota FJ. I ended up spending over $640 which was painful. I wish I knew about this blog before I bought the camper. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Sorry @Tabalicious.  We could have saved you a lot of trouble.  We love towing with our Sienna.

TresK3

Whatever TV we get would definitely be with a full tow package.  If we go the Ridgeline route, it will be the AWD.  We drove one today and really liked it.  Also drove a Colorado and liked that, too.  Oh, yeah... and a Ford F-150.  The F-150 was nice, it had great pick up and was comfortable, but not my favorite of the three.  The Ridgeline and Colorado both had pluses. One issue is that whatever we get for the Tab will also be my daily driver, so size, fuel economy and comfort are also in the mix.

Denny16

Good, either one with factory tow package should work just fine.  The Ridgeline with AWD has the better tow option, over the FWD version.  Happy trails.
cheers.

ChrisFix

@TresK3
The 'use case' for your tow vehicle is probably the most difficult part of deciding what to get. How well it works when towing is obviously very important, but so is how comfortable/usable when not towing is equally important. 
My home situation isn't well suited to a full size pickup...so I really concentrated on midsize. 
I really think any of those would serve both towing and daily driving fairly well...
I ended up choosing a Honda Ridgeline probably more for the daily driving livability of it...but it has turned out to be a very capable tow vehicle for the T@B 400 as well. 
Wish you all the best in your decision and for many miles of happy towing with your new T@b400...which I'm certain you're going to love.

bergger

I've owned several Tacomas and have towed different trailers up to 3500lbs with them.  Even living in CO and towing over high mountain passes they did adequate.  We recently got a 2021 400 and I was going to just tow it with our Tacoma.  However based on my past experiences towing in the mountains I decided to get a full size truck.  I test drove a Tundra and Nissan Titan and ended up getting a very low mileage 2018 Nissan Titan.  After completing a few long trips, the most recent being a 1600 mile trip up to Yellowstone, I could not be happier with my decision.  I get the same mpg as the tacoma and have way more power, mass, bigger breaks, comfort and everything else with a full size truck.  And just having the extra space on a long trip is wonderful.  I felt way more confident towing with it vs the Tacoma.  

Verna

I traded my Tacoma for my F-150 a year after I got the 400. All the Toyota specs said it could tow the 400, but 8 to 9 mpg in the Canadian Rockies last summer and the fear of ruining the Tacoma was all I needed to make the change. The Tacoma did pay for half of the F-150, but I sure can’t complain about the F-150 and it’s 36 gallon fuel tank. I can drive most of the day on one tank towing. I even get better in town gas mileage on the F-150 than I did on the Tacoma. 

I still haven’t figured out how the Tacoma specs said it had 650 tongue weight and 6,500 towing. 

NorthIsUp

I tow a 2019 400 with a 2003 Toy Sequoia with 235k miles now. It's running fine. This Sequoia is rated for 6400# towing. I live in the Sierras at 6000'. After having driven to uCamp and back and all around the mountainous west coast, I don't think that a vehicle rated for 5000# would be adequate for me. Yes, it'll get the job done, but there's little margin for a loaded up 2019 400 and loaded tow vehicle with passengers in those 5000#. Again it works, but for how long? Driving on I-70 through the Rockies made me happy that we have the V8 and that towing limit. Go bigger in whatever you decide and drive safely. If I break down somewhere, I'll rent a u-haul to get the trailer back home and buy another Sequoia or Lexus LX460.  If my wife would let me, I would prefer a Tundra but she wants an SUV. 

qhumberd

WE opted for the Tundra and found a used 2016 with a factory tow package. It is the largest vehicle we have ever owned, and feels a bit odd parked next to our other vehicle, a Prius. As for the towing, we could not be happier. I had not towed in many years and the wheelbase and weight and tow capacity of the Tundra with the V8 is very reassuring when you have to make a quick move. My previous tow experience in Colorado and Washington state was with an underpowered SUV and going slowly up mountain grades and I decided not to endure that again. But that is just my input. You will surely enjoy the BDL.

grsiepka

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, +1 for the Tundra here. We traded in our 2018 4Runner for a 2018 Tundra earlier this year and couldn't be happier. While the 4Runner did ok on flat ground, any amount of wind or incline was a struggle. Tundra handles things much better, and feels safer overall. 

DenisP

+2 on the Tundra towing a 400. We have towed our 2018 400 over 20k miles over all types of terrain and couldn’t be happier with combination. 

Denny16

Dennis, did you ever experience any porpoising (up and down bouncing motion at the trailer hitch) when going over bumpy roads, or through dips?

Cheere

qhumberd

@Denny16 We have not towed as far  as @DenisP but the porpoising feeling does happen with our Tundra, and depends on the specifics of the roll of the dips (the frequency combined with our speed, if you will) BUT I clearly feel that the heavier springs and shocks of the tow package dampen that motion very quickly, compared to other vehicles we have used as TVs.

DenisP

@Denny16 @qhumberd I have not experienced any issues with porpoising while towing. It may be how my truck and 400 are loaded but not a problem I remember nor my DW remembers. I have a 2013 TRD 5.7l with Michelin Defender LTX tires and an ARE truck cap. I usually travel with near empty tanks and carry 2 six gal water tanks in the truck bed. Maybe it makes a difference? I have checked my tongue weight a few times with scale and fully loaded in the 450# range. 

Denny16

Thanks all, just wondering, as another new TaB owner here mentioned having this issue with his Trunda, and acTaB400.

Cheers 

TresK3

Still on the hunt for the perfect (mythical) tow vehicle.  Want to check out the Dodge Durango.  Any thoughts?  (I'm going to do a forum search now.)

ChrisFix

TresK3 said:

Still on the hunt for the perfect (mythical) tow vehicle.  Want to check out the Dodge Durango.  Any thoughts?  (I'm going to do a forum search now.)

@TresK3
Here is a Durango long term review from a car reviewer I respect. He also tows with it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZASYK9vqzJg
He talks a little about towing starting at the 7 min mark...
TLDR: Alex on Autos owns and really likes it...and says it spends most of it life towing - which he says tows as well as a Ram 1500.

Denny16

The Durango is a good TV for a trailer up to 4K lbs, a mate of mine tows her Airstream Bambi all,over the west coast, Pacific Northwest, and BC where she lives.
cheers

ChrisFix

The Dodge Durango has a towing capacity of 6,200 lbs to 8,700 lbs depending on engine choice.

Denny16

I know, I was referring to a safe handling load for the minimum tow package setup, going higher than 4K lbs and 500 lbs tongue weight requires a load lever system on the Durango.  This is the same frame as the Dakota truck.
cheers

DougH

@Denny16 ; I noticed you didn't rave about the Gladiator as the perfect 400 tow vehicle, and I plan on purchasing one in the next year or two.

I'm still planning on a Gladiator for my current 320, and eventually for that 18 foot 5500lb T@B 460 (with 800W solar option, heated tanks & valves arctic option, 50g black/grey/fresh tanks option, steampunk copper and leather decor package) that nüCamp is coming out with in 2023.

Is the Gladiator everything I hope it is as a less tall, slightly shorter tow vehicle that doubles as a rock crawling vehicle and deep snow expedition truck?

Denny16

I feel my Gladiator is a unique TV here in this forum, so I try to be somewhat laidback about it.  But I have made some comments on how well it does the job. 

I had a smaller Jeep SUV, but we realized the smaller Tabs or other smaller caravans were not going to work, that we could tow with the SUV.  I have always wanted a Jeep Truck and when we moved out of the city in 2004, I went looking for a Jeep Truck — not available then, closest was a used Comanche, and one in good kit was the same cost as a new Dodge Truck, so I got a Dakota Sport with max tow package.  It was fine, but getting tired, buying too much gas with the low rear end.  Traded it in formthe a Jeep SUV, but soon missed the truck, which I needed more than I thought moving the tractor and bigger boats.

The Gladiator was released, and I decided, to get it to solve both issues of towing, hauling and having a Jeep.  I got a JT Sport S, auto tans, but not max tow, so it has 6K, 600 tongue weight rating, which works for what I am towing.  I did swap,out the rears prints and shocks for the Gladiator MaxTow progressive springs and shocks, to deal with the the slight drop in the stock rear end when the TaB was hitched on.  This upgrade should deal with any excessive rear end motion, and it increases my rear load and tongue weight rating to 700 lbs.

So now I have my cake and are it too.  The Jeep ab TV, handles thrnTaB400 quite well before switching then springs, and now the ride is even better, especially when empty, due to the progressive springs.  Whe towing country highways at 45-60 mph, I am getting 16-18 mpg.  This is better than the Dakota got.  Local non-highway towing at lower speeds and eagling with hills, I am at around 16-18mpg.   

Not sure I would tow a 5500 lbs trailer however., while it can tow the Avia, not sure I would want to with the JT.  

A TaB450 Should be around 4500 lbs GVWR, well in the capacity of the JT.  The EU TaB 510XL was at around. 3600lbs loaded, and 22 feet long, with dual wheels, which is what we would have as a TaB 450.

cheers 

DougH

@Denny16 Thanks, I'm convinced on both the Gladiator and your vision for the T@B 450 as long as I can still get the arctic package.

And for the record, the BMW diesel station wagon is the perfect 320 TV (4000lb towing / 350lb hitch weight / 280 ft-lbs torque before mods) and it's handled innumerable mountain passes for me with ease and great fuel mileage (45-50mpg solo / 20-30mpg towing)...  yet less than a hundred of the forum members use it as their tow vehicle.  Maybe because it can't possibly cope with a T@B 400 BDL, let alone the 450.

ChrisFix

Denny16 said:

I know, I was referring to a safe handling load for the minimum tow package setup, going higher than 4K lbs and 500 lbs tongue weight requires a load lever system on the Durango.  This is the same frame as the Dakota truck.
cheers

Durango's from 2011 on are based on the Jeep Grand Cherokee are unibody...and don't require a WDH at 4K that I'm aware of.

Denny16

Thanks, was wondering about that, after the Dakota line was shut down.

Cheers