Electrical Issues 2018 T@B400

Paulie

Have a call into NuCamp and an appointment with our dealer, but hoping someone can shed some light.  We started having problems with our fridge on battery last year (worked on shore). It ran constantly, and drained our battery (had previously been fine with factory solar). Dealer could not find a problem with fridge, load-tested battery, nothing.  This year we took it back, and they finally replaced the fridge.  Ran like a charm 2 nights in a row in our driveway on battery, but drained the battery while camping last weekend.  I know there have been battery issues (though I have to say, I thought we had an AGM 12V, and it turns out to be a "Dry Cell").  Before I replace a battery that the dealer is telling me is fine, I'd like to know there is not another electrical issue.  

pthomas745

What are you monitoring your battery with?  What do you mean by "drained?"  What are the state of charge numbers you are seeing?

Paulie

So we use an app simply called "solar app".  I tried the Victron app, but it didn't work with our controller.  When I say drained, our panel in the trailer was down to 1 light, the Alde panel was flashing a "low battery" warning, and if I recall, the app said our voltage was 9.6 and I think it was saying we had "0% capacity".  That said, I would have loved to have monitored the voltage more closely, but the app stopped registering, so all I have to go by now are the indicator lights inside the door, and the Alde panel warnings.

pthomas745

Are you able to get it on shore power and charge for a day?  And see if it will hold whatever charge you can get?

Sharon_is_SAM

What is your controller?  Not familiar with a ‘dry cell” battery - do you have the specs?  

The KIB panel is not a reliable indicator of battery capacity - it over estimates state of charge.

Paulie

I charged it fully on shore power right before we headed out to camp.  Unplugged it at about 4:30 pm fully charged.  By 12:30 am, I awakened to the low battery message on the Alde panel.  Another note - the solar app was saying the solar panel was at 18V.  Service department was concerned this was too high, but did nothing to investigate it.

Sharon_is_SAM

Do you have a plug in 12 v meter?

Paulie

I have no idea what our controller is - it's impossible to see, and not one of my favorite things NuCamp has done.  You have to have a flashlight and a mirror to get back in the compartment to even determine where it is, but cannot really read it. As far as "Dry Cell", I have looked it up on the manufacturer's website (Discover Battery out of Canada), but I don't know what specs you'd need to know.  I don't profess to be a battery or electrical genius, which is why I'm asking for suggestions.  I do not have a plug in 12V meter.

Denny16

The 2018 TaB400 with factory Solar has a Victron MPPT controller, unless someone has switched it out. It is under the Drivers die rear bunk on the forward divider of the closet or under the closet floor.  Factory battery was a 12VDC AGM battery, 200+ Amp Hours.  What you are describing sounds like a failing battery to me.
cheers

N7SHG_Ham

@Denny16 the early factory solar setups had a no name solar controller with a different app, that sounds like what the OP has? Early 400's also had a single 12v AGM battery, not sure the date they changed to 2x 6v AGM setup.

It does sound like the battery (s) are toast.

Sharon_is_SAM

As @N7SHG_Ham stated, the original batteries in the initial 2018 400 production were single 12 volts and have been noted to be short lived/defective.  I agree that it sounds like a bad battery especially since it sounds like the battery became depleted multiple times starting last year.  @Paulie - a bad battery will not hold a charge as you describe and easily depleted under load.  I would also check with the nuCamp warranty dept to see if it qualifies to be replaced under warranty - they replace with two 6 volt AGMs.  Explain that the issues started in 2019.  

Get yourself a plug in 12v meter.  Amazon $15.  The solar charge controller does not reflect the real battery state of charge.
Your goal is to not deplete the battery below 50%.  Repeated depletion’s will reduce the life of your battery.

Paulie

Thanks all - I have thought this was a battery issue as well, but the battery has been load tested by our service department a few times now, and they keep telling us they think the battery is ok.  I'd hate to replace the battery, only to fry it again because there is another electrical issue going on.  To be noted based on a prior comment, we do NOT have the Victron controller, and our controller is miserably placed back behind the water heater and only accessible from the driver side outside compartment.  Our battery is a single 12V battery, but it is NOT AGM as was in the NuCamp specs.  We seem to have a lot of factors that differ from what NuCamp advertised for that model.  We are the original owners, so this is all as provided by the factory.

Verna

@Paulie, the 2018 T@B 400’s came with a single 12V AGM around 200 aH battery. Yes, AGM. They frequently came up with a bad cell in them. Have the person testing your battery to test for a bad cell. These batteries weigh in the neighborhood of 130 lbs, by the way. 

NüCamp went to the dual 6 Volt AGM batteries due to the problems with the single AGM battery. 

If you search the forum, there are a number of 2018 T@B 400 owners who had to replace the battery due to a bad cell. 

Denny16

Yes, ours had to be replaced after less than 2 years of light use, we have a 2018 built in January, so it is a later model, and originally came with one AGM battery, and Victron solar controller.  Easy enough to upgrade the setup to a Victron MPPT controller and relocate it in the front end of the Alde compartment, for easier access.
Perhaps the first TaB400s early in production, like the OP’s, were shipped without the battery, like the 320s are?

Sharon_is_SAM

No @Denny - all the 400s had their batteries basically built in with the unit.

Denny16

OK, thanks.  The original TaB400 battery location is inside the rear pax side cargo door, so thought it might have been dealer added in.  I know the original TaB400 batteries were AGM, not sure what the OP is trying describe what he has for a battery, a “dry cell”?  Perhaps he means an AGM/glass mat battery.
I was trying to work out how he got a new from dealer TaB400 without a factory AGM battery. 

cheers

Paulie

For those interested, our battery model information can be found at this link (this is the SPECIFIC model, it was delivered to us from the dealer brand new with this battery installed, and it is NOT an AGM):  https://discoverbattery.com/product-search/view/EV4DA-A.  Also, the solar controller is an RoHS, also installed from the factory.  I've been able to connect with Creed to inquire about our issues, so hopefully will learn something soon.

pthomas745

Interesting battery.  Its used in fork lifts, etc.  I would read this over under the section on "Industrial Deep Cycle Batteries."  The pull quote:

"Most industrial (fork lift) deep-cycle batteries use Lead-Antimony plates rather than the Lead-Calcium used in AGM or gelled deep-cycle batteries and in automotive starting batteries. The Antimony increases plate life and strength, but increases gassing and water loss.  This is why most industrial batteries have to be checked often for water level if you do not have Hydrocaps. The self discharge of batteries with Lead-Antimony plates can be high - as much as 1% per day on an older battery. A new AGM typically self-discharges at about 1-2% per month, while an old one may be as much as 2% per week."

https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html#Major Battery Types

Denny16

Yes, but the Discover Battery data sheet lists this battery as an AGM electrolyte type battery.  And Marine/RV is one if it’s listed applications.  So something is amiss somewhere on the OP’s TaB electrical systems or the battery is at EOL due to repeated deep discharges, which will shorten this battery’s life.  

Cheers

N7SHG_Ham

FYI, your charge controller is NOT an RoHS, that is an acronym and stands for Restriction of Hazardous Substances. RoHS, also known as Directive 2002/95/EC, originated in the European Union and restricts the use of specific hazardous materials found in electrical and electronic products (known as EEE). I think in large part one item that is RoHS compliant is non lead based solder as the primary hazardous substance reduced in electronics.

I am not sure who made those charge controllers, they may be a no name out of the parts bin? NuCamp did NOT use them for long and I would probably upgrade to the current Victron units for better functionality.

Your battery is odd, maybe they used those in limited quantities in the very early 400's? Your 400 is the first I have heard of having anything but an AGM.

Denny16

@N7SHG_Ham, the OP’s battery while an odd unit, is an industrial type AGM, the battery data sheet shows it’s an AGM.  But I agree, possibly an early battery source for some of the first TaB400s.
cheers

Paulie

pthomas745 thanks for the link.  Very interesting.  Makes me wonder why this was put in our trailer, but doesn't make me wonder why it was not continued.

Denny16

The original battery in our TaB400 also failed after 18 months and was replaced with an Interstate AGM by the previous owner.  When nuCamp started having issues with the 12VDC AGMs they were using, they switched to the two 6-VDC AGM they re currently using, more to do with managing the battery weight, and battery source they are using.  Both 6VDC and 12 VDC at the same Amp rating are otherwise equally good in our application, their is not any electrical advantage.
cheers

(Edit:  Changed 7-VDC to be 6-VDC—Verna)

pthomas745

@Paulie I don't think there is anything "wrong" with that type of battery. Denny pointed out is an AGM.  Just not sure I've ever seen one in a Tab.