Suggestions for T@B 400 changes

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Dimensions of 2021 T@b 400.

Aray

Just realized a few days ago that they removed the great built-in cubbies from that big closet. Bummer. I complained to NuCamp about all the things that are not so obvious that keep disappearing in new models. You watch videos, think this is what you are going to get if you order and after VERY close scrutiny realize things like back up cam, DVD, closet cubbie system, smaller outside storage opening, glass shower door in 320, etc, etc. have all been changed/eliminated (I am sure there are many I don't even know about). All in the name of cost-cutting, I am sure, but they are starting to add up and beginning to change the value equation for me. I don't want to spend $35-40K and then spend weekends doing endless mods that were originally included.

Denny16

The closet cubbies Shelves were omitted to allow width room for the large fridge option.  They also shortened the height of the closet, so it is now a wardrobe locker.  “The times they just keep a changing...”
cheers

Aray

Thanks, @Denny16 - They should have left it the way is was for the smaller fridge folks. Who wants an absorption fridge these days anyway? I HATE those things. Don't cool well, gotta be level or it doesn't work, sucks batteries dry in no time. No thanks. Give me the old closet and the compressor anytime.

Denny16

I agree, but building two different wardrobe units one for the big fridge and the original for,thr standard fridge with wardrobe locker, adds to cost and production issues.  The front was totally redesigned also, with the new locker front being parallel with the side wall, and set back, as shown on the floor plan:

Note the setback of the closet/wardrobe cabinet face compared to the washroom front wall.  The original TaB400 shared the same front panel shown here:

Aray

Yep. Only problem is: they traded a great feature, IMO, for a marginal one. Especially since storage is a premium feature in such a small unit.

Aray

No constructive feedback allowed here? Is group-think a requirement to post? How does a company learn what potential customers are thinking if a board allows nothing but rah-rah posts? I don't recall mentioning that I thought any camper was a more perfect solution or that NuCamp made a bad camper. Why do you feel it is  necessary to challenge my personal observation comments with such a passive-aggressive post? Is it not true that the RV industry is moving further away from absorption refrigeration? Am I not entitled to an opinion about that? Is it not true that storage space IS considered a premium commodity among RVers? Is it against the rules to say I wish they would have left the closet the way it was? Did I make any false statements about items that were once standard now disappearing from new models?  Consider - for every prospective customer that voices out honest opinions on issues, there are usually scores more that are thinking the same way but are silent. Is that helpful to the company when that group simply walks away and buys a different product? You are doing a serious disservice to NuCamp if you immediately try to squash prospective customers' honest feedback about how they are feeling about new changes and you are depriving the company of a very important future decision-making mechanism. There is no need to be so defensive. If I didn't think NuCamp made a nice camper, I wouldn't  be here commenting at all. NuCamp does a LOT of things right and they have shown a great willingness to listen to feedback. Those are BIG pluses. However, it doesn't mean they are perfect, or that every decision they make is necessarily the best one, IMO. 

DougH

One nice thing about teardrop trailers... they're easy to modify to add as much storage or volume as required.

qhumberd

Well I was truly amazed at the civility of this forum, but in this thread that appears to have broken down. I truly appreciate ALL opinions but please read what you are saying before you post, take a deep breath and be thankful and kind as much as you can. People come here for information and support, not to make each other feel bad. I say we just forgive and try to do better.

Denny16

@Verna said, “ As far as the smaller two-way fridges go, there are few complaints after using them. So saying negative comments about them without using the exact one that nüCamp is using is not a good comparison.” 

Verna, actually the OP stated he liked and preferred the smaller compressor Refrig, and did not like the larger absorption gas powered refrigerators.  He was laminating they loss of the nice closet cubbies to allow the absorption refrig option.

@Aray, It would not be difficult for a DYI to retro fit the cubbies back in, the closet wall is a thick sheet of birch ply, just buy a 1/2 sheet of 1/2-inch birch ply and frame in the cubbies and shelves.  Also, someone discovered in the new wardrobe, the back is false and you can add some shelves in the back void space between the wire and plumbing chases:

You could do the same mod the left side also.  Add the nets back in and Bob’s your uncle.

For details see:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/10839/2021-t-b-400-wardrobe-shelf#latest

The nüCamp factory could add this back shelf system back in on TaB400s
 with the wardrobe option, just replace the solid false back with this shelf unit.

Cheers

Aray

@Denny16 - thanks a lot for posting this. You are a great resource.  If I do decide to move forward, that will prove to be very helpful. However, I am not a "mod person", so I would need to hire a cabinet maker. Looking at Awahl's post, it sure seems that I am not the only one here disappointed with the new closet changes. That original cubby design was a really ingenious idea. Somewhat equivalent to having a chest of drawers in a VERY compact space. As for your suggestion of NuCamp adding the shelf system back in for those selecting the compressor fridge models, it would certainly seem to be a winning idea on their part. Absorption buyers happy - compressor folks happy. Win-win!  As for me, the only way I would have considered the change a good trade off would have been if the larger fridge would have been a compressor model. But, maybe not enough closet depth? 

Denny16

No, the depth is there, however the larger compressor fridge used in the TaB400 Solo model is too wide to fit in the wardrobe locker area  So width is the issue, according to nüCamp.  We asked when the Solo option came out, at about the same time or slightly after, the larger fridge option, thinking they could use the same compressor fridge in the remodeled 2020-21 setup.  Maybe someday, nüCamp may find a similar Solo compressor fridge that will fit.

Here is where Thor Industries has an advantage, they could buy the Norcold company, and then design their own fridge to fit their requirements.  nüCamp has to use what they can currently buy off the shelf as it were.
cheers

TNOutback

In the spirit of the intent of this post, I would like to see them find a way to place the a/c outlet ducts up high in the trailer.  Having them down low works against the natural physics of cooler/warmer air.  If I could point my finger at where to place them, I would put one in the back of the street-side upper cubby, one above the closet/refrigerator, and one up high above the bed (where it is in our 2020 model).  that way, you have washed the ceiling with cold air in all three “zones” of the camper.

if it were me, I would prefer a cassette toilet, but I also understand that would be a design challenge in the current 400 layout.

I would make the tongue a bit longer (or change the jack position) such that a truck tailgate can be opened with the trailer attached.

I would enclose the basement with insulation, maybe even run a length of Alde piping down there as some have done with mods.

Vent the 2-way refrigerator to the outside so its not putting heat into the cabin.  That’s fine in the winter, but works against you otherwise.

I would also wire in a backup light at the rear.  I do really love our closet with the side shelves. 

Leave the rest alone, since we have to have something to modify on our own!  

Denny16

Great ideas, especially on the AC vents.  However, I would keep the driver’s side low AC vent to help put cool return air in the AC front return air intake area, as their is no room on this side to route a high AC vent.  But I like your idea of moving the AV vent on the driver’s side up the side of the overhead storage cubby, easy mod, which makes sense.
In the bed area, unfortunately those with the larger fridge, I do not believe their is room for a round AC vent tube to run up to the top of the cabinet side and out from the top area.  Perhaps a flat style duct may work?

The EU TaBs have longer tongue and a special positive locking hitch system I wish we had here, but this reduces /changes tongue weight towing stability ratios we use in the US and Canada because of our faster towing speeds.  EU tongue weights are about half of ours.  Not sure how long you could add to the tongue hitch setup and maintain the trailer balance.
The small 2-way fridge does not generate a significant amount of heat, and the fewer external side and bottom penetrations, the better.  External,vents create their own issues.  Not having to use an external vent for the small compressor refrig. is one if it’s advantages to me.
cheers

Aray

Great ideas, @TNOutback. Especially like the idea of higher vents and fridge venting outside. I have seen other posts suggesting a longer tongue for the same reason you mentioned also.

Aray

Denny16 said:

No, the depth is there, however the larger compressor fridge used in the TaB400 Solo model is too wide to fit in the wardrobe locker area  So width is the issue, according to nüCamp.  We asked when the Solo option came out, at about the same time or slightly after, the larger fridge option, thinking they could use the same compressor fridge in the remodeled 2020-21 setup.  Maybe someday, nüCamp may find a similar Solo compressor fridge that will fit.

Here is where Thor Industries has an advantage, they could buy the Norcold company, and then design their own fridge to fit their requirements.  nüCamp has to use what they can currently buy off the shelf as it were.
cheers

@Denny16 Do you think there may be any other compressor fridges on the market that might fit this space?

Denny16

I do not know, if their were, I am sure nüCamp would have located one to use, as they did for the Solo model.
cheers

Aray

Thanks.