Leaking pipe under the bed. Any ideas?

IndieJCT

I've got a 2021 TAB 400 BD. Saw some folks with water system issues on brand new units that led to floods under the bed. So today we decided to do a simple test - ran the two sinks and the shower, each for just about 10 seconds. 

Sure enough,  we've got a pretty good leak coming from the blue pipe I circled below. Looks like it's leading from the Alde water pump. Any ideas to take care of the leak? Should I empty the fresh water tank? Leak is very slow but steady. if we hadn't thought to test it out and just went camping, this would have been a PROBLEM. 

Sharon_is_SAM

It appears you are referring to the pipe with the yellow flapper valve.  That is a Safety/Drain valve.  Does this occur when using only city water or does it occur when you use the fresh water tank and water pump?  Are you using a pressure regulator?  If not, you may be exposing your plumbing to excessive pressure, hence the leak.

Can you identify exactly where the water is coming from?  The Alde does not have a water pump - only a glycol pump.

VictoriousJane

@Sharon_is_SAM we aren't hooked up to anything, we are using the freshwater tank and water pump. The leak started once we turned the water pump on and ran water in the sinks. The blue line (circled) leads to the Alde Flow. We dont see a way to tighten the fitting. We have not yet hooked up to city water, the unit is as is from.we picked up from the dealer about 3 weeks ago.

DougH

Where is the hose clamp on the left side of the drain valve?  Missing?  It doesn't look like the right side.

VictoriousJane

@DougH hose clamp? Missing I guess? This is how it came. We havent used anything since we  brought it home. Just wanted to make sure there weren't any leaks and here we are. We initially wanted to check the black flush which is why we flushed the toilet and ran the sinks a bit. Havent gotten there yet because now we have this issue, ha!

DougH

@VictoriousJane Sure looks that way, especially if the water is welling up on the left side.  Somebody else with a 2021 400 could confirm.  But on the right side I see what looks like both a pex expansion fitting and a hose clamp, but on the left side... not so much.  If there's a plastic or PVC bayonet the sticks out an inch or so into the blue tubing, you ought to be able to go to any hardware store, get a hose clamp and tighten it on there.  But I don't know what those fittings look like before the hoses are attached.

I looked around to see if anyone had a picture of a recent Alde drain valve in place, but couldn't find a pic with just a few minutes of searching.  Will keep looking.

VictoriousJane

@DougH okay, thanks. It is odd that every other hose has a clamp except for this one. 

Do you know if the yellow drain valve is supposed to be up or down. Right now it's down. Wondering if that could be part of the problem too?

Sharon_is_SAM

Did you try wiggling the pipe connection to see if it is loose?

Did you try flipping up the valve?  Someone recently found that the yellow flapper was not seated completely, but that should not cause an inside leak.

VictoriousJane

@Sharon_is_SAM it doesn't feel loose but when you wiggle it more water comes out for sure. I havent flipped the flapper because I wasnt sure what bbn itndid and didnt want to make the situation worse. 

DougH

@VictoriousJane Down is correct.  Lifting drains the Alde tank.

I did find another recent pic from Giota that looked just like yours, so maybe that's how they are and that thinner blue plastic flange is a compression fitting.  Not what I'm used to on pex fittings though... they normally look like the ring you have on the right side. 

EDIT:  If you look for John Guest fittings they have that same look.  Thanks for a professional weighing in below.

But regardless could be a bad connection now that you've confirmed Sharon_is_SAM's suspicions and a hose clamp might correct it, or it could be a cracked valve.

And sorry for your trouble.

IndieJCT

Yeah wiggling the connection definitely led to more leaking,  but it doesnt seem like I can set it amy deeper into a connection than where it's at. Sounds like we've got a missing part...

Sharon_is_SAM

Yeah, all the pictures that I have seen of the Safety/Drain valve look like that.  

Just press down on the valve momentarily.  Some water will shoot out under the TaB.  Just see if there is any change.  Sometimes debris can get under the flap and prevent a good seal.

Sharon_is_SAM

Also, on occasion, those valves are defective.

Which side of the valve is it leaking?

VictoriousJane

@Sharon_is_SAM okay. Will try that. Thank you so much!

VictoriousJane

@Sharon_is_SAM tried pushing down on the valve, water came out under the tab. Feels like the valve is working just fine. The leak seems to be coming from the blue hose to the left of the valve. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Can you push the left hose part into the valve?

Sharon_is_SAM

Here is that valve.  I wonder if there is a little O ring missing.

IndieJCT

@Sharon_is_SAM it pushes slightly into the valve but then settles back into the same position when I let go. And it gets the leak moving. I'm thinking it's a bad seal.  Should we drain the fresh water tank? 

Sharon_is_SAM

Drain the Alde tank and then don’t run any water.  As long as you don’t run the pump, you won’t be pulling water through that area.

DougH

If they bypass the Alde as if winterizing, can they still have cool water?  Does that bypass that drain area?  No clue how the Nautilus manages all that though.  I still vote for a screw on hose clamp, only because they're so cheap and ubiquitous (nothing to lose).  At least you're not camping and a hundred miles from an Ace hardware, Home Depot, Lowe's or equivalent.  But if you've perused this forum for a while, you've no doubt read that every few trips there's always something that needs a tweak. RV life. But worth the occasional bother.

Sharon_is_SAM

@DougH - I think you are right, but not sure if the Nautilus changes the prior year model plumbing arrangement.  

IndieJCT

OK, draining now. Thanks so much for your help!

Sharon_is_SAM

Welcome.  I wonder if there is a pin hole in the pipe?  

DougH

Pinhole extremely rare (unheard of?) with quality pex line such as NüCamp uses.  But has been known to happen on lower grades sold at big box stores, more often with hot water side, and if line gets abrasion. Pex issues are much more often at the connection point.

Denny16

You can drain the Alde water tank and turn the red handle (Alde bypass valve) to the horizontal Winterize setting, and you should be able to use the cold water.  
You have a new trailer, under warranty, I would let the Dealer and nüCamp sort this out for you.  Sounds like you have a bad fitting, adding a hose clamp may help, but this seems like a bandaid fix.  I have fitted a few PEX fittings and sometimes they develop a leak.
cheers

Pintoplumber

The fitting on the left side of the valve looks like a John Guest or Sharkbite type fitting. If you push the ring against the valve, it will release the pipe and you can pull it out. Check the end for burrs or scratches. Make a mark on the pipe before you pull it out, and you can see if it inserts any further. It may be the pipe was just not inserted far enough on installation. Dennis 

DougH

@Pintoplumber Thanks! Hadn't seen John Guest push in seal before.  Are there reasons you might use them with Uponor instead of the expansion compression ring things?  Besides saving time?  More common with potentially higher pressure hot water?

Pintoplumber

I think they’re time savers, probably why they’re used. I have one on our 320 CS S under the kitchen sink in a vertical position. It was oozing from a joint. I have a block of wood between the bottom elbow and the floor to keep it from backing out of the joint. Doesn’t leak that way. One of these years I’ll fix it. Dennis 

ScottG

As a point of clarification for anyone about to tackle PEX plumbing repairs...

There are two general types of PEX fittings. The most common utilize crimp or clamp compression rings to form a seal between the tubing and fitting. This is what you find in the T@B.

Expansion fittings (which go by the brand name Uponor or ProPex) are designed to be stretched and placed over a fitting. They have a memory so when they return to their normal size they form a tight seal.

Uponor/ProPex systems are different in almost every way. The fittings are different, the PEX is different, and the tool to install it is different. The components are not necessarily interchangeable with the more common compression ring systems.

I'm inherently distrustful of push-on fittings, though many have used them without issue. I used a Shark-Bite fitting to repair a leak in my T@B because there was no way I could have fit a crimping tool in the confined space behind the bathroom wall. So far, so good!

tabiphile

As noted by pintoplumber these are a type of push in fitting that is quite common in assembly line type production. A worker can use a tubing cutter to cut the tubing to the proper length. It is then inserted into the fitting by pushing it in until it bottoms out. If the tubing cutter is dull or if the person using it is sloppy the cut on the end of the tubing can be angled or burred. Both can affect how it seals. The nice thing about these fittings is that you can easily remove the tubing by pushing the locking flange down while pulling on the tube.
What you should try first is to fix the leak by pushing the tube into the fitting to make sure that it is seated.
If that does not work turn off the water and remove the hose to check if it is cleanly cut. If it's not you can try to fix it by trimming it wit a very sharp knife or ideally with a tubing cutter...the problem will be if there is not enough tubing length to allow that. The cutter needs at least 1/2 inch of spare tube to make a good cut. If you don't have enough hose you should contact nuCamp and ask them to send you some so that you can stop the leak. You should also ask for a new fitting in case that is the issue. These are not sharkbite type fittings, it looks more like Festo style. 

DougH

https://www.plumbingsupply.com/when-and-why-to-choose-a-push-fit-fitting.html