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T@B 320 S Boondock battery upgrade

DougWWDougWW Member Posts: 87
in Battery/Electrical & Solar
Considering a 2021 trailer... should we go with the stock 12 volt, two 12 volts in parallel, or 2 6 volts in series?

Thoughts? Pros and cons?

Thanks very much.
...Doug

2021 T@B 320S Boondock, Chevy Avalanche, Happy wife.
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,676
    And, once you discover how much those two lithiums will cost, money will be the object.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    TerryHutchinsonTerryHutchinson Member Posts: 45
    A pair of lead acid batteries are cheap and they will nearly triple the usable power.  I opted for a pair of 6 volt golf cart batteries that offer approximately 230 amp hrs of 12volt power when wired in series.  Since about half the amp hours can be utilized in a discharge/recharge cycle without damaging the batteries, that is perhaps 3 times what you can routinely draw from the small factory 12 volt.   You can get the same available capacity by using 12v GC batteries wired in parallel.  It is my understanding, that due to differences in connection impedance that are difficult to eliminate completely, running a parallel set can result in batteries not charging/discharging equally. Likely not a significant problem, but the use of a series connection with the twin 6v batteries eliminates the issue completely.
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    MuttonChopsMuttonChops Member Posts: 1,596
    @DougWW; if you are going to upgrade 'right out of the box'
    Then at least go for a group-27 AGM battery as you get extra capacity, no maintenance, and the price adder is small.  I let my dealer install the basic Group-24 battery and switched to Group-27 AGM within 3 years.

    Yes, Lithium would be ideal . . . does your budget allow (mine didn't) Plus you will need a year or two of Adventures to know what type travel trailer camping is 'your camping' and that will impact what battery/other upgrades are correct for you.

    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    Adventures:  51   Nights:  322  Towing Miles 41,200+
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    4ncar4ncar Member Posts: 1,072
    FWIW: I have 2@6v GC batteries. If money wasn’t an object, I’d have two 12v lithium.
    TV- '16 Chevy Colorado LT Crew Cab-DuraMax
    2018 320S Outback
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    VernaVerna Member Posts: 6,878
    I vote for two 6V AGM batteries in series. Yes, more expensive than wet cell, but will last longer and you can take them occasionally under the 50% discharge without damage. Less expensive than Lithium at this time. 

    The emergence of the price drop, though small, on Lithium batteries, has also lessened the price of AGM batteries. 
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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    DougWWDougWW Member Posts: 87
    Wow! A wealth of information in just a few minutes. Thanks to everyone for their input. 
    ...Doug

    2021 T@B 320S Boondock, Chevy Avalanche, Happy wife.
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,442
    It depends. Back before it became a virtual requirement to spend $2K out of the box on fancy batteries and their associated monitoring and charging equipment, there was an active member here who camped full time for years with the stock group 24 wet cell and a portable solar panel.

    Of course, it's your money and your fun, so you can spend it any way you wish. However, if you are asking the question, you might be well served to start simple/cheap and figure out your needs first. That way you won't be too disappointed if you trash your first battery, and you will be in a far better place to decide on upgrades for yourself if you find them necessary in the future.  
    2015 T@B S

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    corunnercorunner Member Posts: 26
    I recently got my new 320S BD and decided to go with (2) 100ah Battleborn LiFePO in parallel with a 200 watt suitcase panel to compliment the stock solar.  It came down to a long term investment for me.  The batteries have a 10 year warranty.  If I get 10 years of frequent use out of this setup and manage the power to ensure plenty for each extended boondocking trip, it will certainly be worth the cost.

    I have many years of previous trailer experience with batteries dying mid-trip.  This was back when I knew next to nothing about managing power.  Thanks to this group I feel more confident that this next chapter of camping will be more enjoyable having the power I need.
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    ldfldf Member Posts: 3
    Do you have your lithium batteries inside the cabin (where?), or plan to avoid use/storage in freezing temperatures?
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    PongPong Member Posts: 39
    I'm also a new 2021 320 owner.  I hope to do lots of off grid camping so more battery was a priority for me.  I priced out the options and ended up going with 2 flooded lead acid Trojan-105, 6v to be wired in series as soon as my dual side by side battery box is delivered.  Each of those batteries cost me $123 vs similar sized Trojan AGMs going for $288 each. The lithiums were out of the questions this time around.  The savings of going with FLA over AGM got me a Renogy 100w suitcase panel with controller, and a good part of a Victron Smart Shunt battery monitor.  As a new owner, I have had a number of expenses beyond the camper itself (hoses, chocks, surge protector, etc, etc, etc) so I decided I will expend a bit of energy in battery maintenance and save a few $$ to put towards other things. Time will tell if I made the best decision, but I'm comfortable with it.  Good luck and happy camping!
    2021 Tab 320 BD; Honda Passport
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    DougWWDougWW Member Posts: 87
    @Pong I asked the dealer about the serial 6 volt rig you described. He said $543 difference... Well those are Canadian $ so maybe that accounts for it.

    thanks to all for their comments and ideas, though. very helpful.

    ...Doug

    2021 T@B 320S Boondock, Chevy Avalanche, Happy wife.
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    4ncar4ncar Member Posts: 1,072
    @Pong: I feel that your logic is far from flawed! 
    TV- '16 Chevy Colorado LT Crew Cab-DuraMax
    2018 320S Outback
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    CharlieRNCharlieRN Member Posts: 439
    edited February 2021
    Let me first qualify my response by noting that I am new to trailer camping and in fact, am still waiting to take delivery of a T@B 320 BD ordered last August. The wait is a bit of pain, but has provided me the chance to do quite a bit of background research.
    After looking at a considerable amount of information on batteries, and factoring in the kind of camping we plan to do, my conclusion was that a pair of 6v batteries would be a worthwhile upgrade. We discussed the options with our dealer, who offered us a pair of 6v Grp 24 6v AGMs (224 Ah) installed with battery boxes for about $540.
    The AGM battery seems to offer some genuine, if relatively modest, performance, maintenance and longevity advantages over flooded-cell at a reasonable cost premium. Lithium of course offers even more advantages but at very considerable extra cost that in my view, makes AGM a better value for money.
    2021 T@B 320 S Boondock / 2022 Telluride - Phillies/Eagles/Flyers Country
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    TomCanadaTomCanada Member Posts: 286
    Agreed on the AGM being the way to go.  To realize the cost benefits long term of lithium, you'd need to own your rig for quite a bit longer than the average that people typically own them.  I keep referring to Patrick at Travels with Delaney on YouTube - he spent a crazy amount of money on lithium, and then sold his trailer a few months later.  Unless those were comp'd by Battleborn, not the greatest decision :) 
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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,357
    Count me in the 2 6V golf cart lead acid battery camp.  And I run a microwave while boondocking.
    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    corunnercorunner Member Posts: 26
    TomCanada said:
    To realize the cost benefits long term of lithium, you'd need to own your rig for quite a bit longer than the average that people typically own them.

    If I sell my Tab 320 w/ dual lithium, I'd swap out the battery before selling and bring them to the next one.  While I'm not confident I'll have the 320 for ten years, I'm much more confident that I'll be camping and pulling some kind of a trailer for that long.
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    corunnercorunner Member Posts: 26
    ldf said:
    Do you have your lithium batteries inside the cabin (where?), or plan to avoid use/storage in freezing temperatures?
    @ldf Mine are in the main outside storage compartment.  If I know the temps will drop below 32, I'll disconnect (pull fuse) on all solar and turn on the battery disconnect if on shore power.  If not on shore power, I'll still use the batteries until it drops down to low single digits, which I feel is highly unlikely since I wouldn't be out camping in those temps.
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    CharlieRNCharlieRN Member Posts: 439
    It looks like Battleborn has dropped the price of their 100 Ah deep cycle battery by 10%, making it a bit more cost-competitive with AGM.
    2021 T@B 320 S Boondock / 2022 Telluride - Phillies/Eagles/Flyers Country
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    GeorgiaMBGeorgiaMB Member Posts: 33
    We are picking up our 2021 320 next week. My dealer quoted me $355 to upgrade to an Deka/Napa 80AH AGM. I’m thinking that may not be a good deal????
    2021 T@B Boondock 320S | 2021 Toyota Tacoma SR5 V6 
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    DougHDougH Member Posts: 1,110
    edited March 2021
    @GeorgiaMB I have these: 

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004DR3IIC

    ...for $290 but had to change up the support and battery box in the front tub to fit the 125Ah.  But the same company has a smaller 85Ah version:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0042QD2PS

    ...for $260.  Both are marked as free shipping.

    That said, Will Prowse had nice things to say about the "Ampere Time" LiFePO4 batteries relatively cheap on Amazon if Lithium still beckons.   The 100Ah is only $540.
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,676
    @GeorgiaMB it is an upgrade to an AGM....but no upgrade on the amount of amp hours from a stock lead acid battery.
    This battery is a 100 ah for half as much.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    OlenaOlena Member Posts: 103
    I camped three full seasons (May to October) with the stock dealer battery and a 120W solar suitcase. Mind you, I did not have a fridge or built in entertainment system (iPad for movies and music). 

    This year I have added a Dometic portable fridge and upgraded the battery to an 88 AH lithium. I did the math and know this will work.

    Lithium batteries are coming down in price and if you are a fair weather camper (like me) there is no concern about freezing. I know a lot of people are going with the two 6V AGM, but those are HEAVY and I am very concerned about adding unecessary weight. 

    The advice from @ScottG is correct - get out there and camp, figure out what you need. There are some charts somewhere in the forum from @jkjenn that outline daily AH usage and they are very helpful. It does take some time to figure out the best set up for your situation, and if you spend lots of money right out of the gate, you might end up spending money twice on a new configuration after a season.


    2021 T@B 400 Boondock Solo
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    GeorgiaMBGeorgiaMB Member Posts: 33
    @pthomas745. Is a battery upgrade to the AGM something that we should be able to do ourselves??  I did not know if it was a simple drop and hook up situation.  Sorry. Newbie question!
    2021 T@B Boondock 320S | 2021 Toyota Tacoma SR5 V6 
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,676
    Ask questions!  Everyone here loves questions. How else will we learn?
    Changing out a battery is usually an easy process.  Turn the battery switch off.  Take a picture of the wiring (or label them) to make sure you can put them back on the proper posts on the new battery.  Take old battery out.  Put new battery back in, using the picture and labels you have made to put the wires back on.
    What the hard part will be is finding out if your new AGM battery will fit into the front tub.  I don't know enough about the new trailers and the new front boxes to know how much room is in there. So, I hope someone else can fill in that information for us.
    Batteries are sized by "Group Numbers".  Such as Group 24 or Group 27 or 31.(there are a few different numbers) ....higher numbers usually mean more amp hours, since the bigger battery cases can hold more "chemical".  The 100 amp hour batteries are usually "Group 27". You would need a slightly larger battery box (to hold the battery) and measure out whether or not it will fit easily in the tub.  This will be the hardest part of the swap. 
    I know it sounds like rocket surgery...but it is easy once you get over the "names for things." 
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    GeorgiaMBGeorgiaMB Member Posts: 33
    Awesome. I think we will just get our dealer lead acid, then make the switch to a AGM if we see we need it…I have already had to break it to my husband that he would not be able to Boondock with the air conditioner, unless we had a generator!!
    2021 T@B Boondock 320S | 2021 Toyota Tacoma SR5 V6 
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    GeorgiaMBGeorgiaMB Member Posts: 33
    @DougH. Thank you for the recommendations!!!
    2021 T@B Boondock 320S | 2021 Toyota Tacoma SR5 V6 
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    DougHDougH Member Posts: 1,110
    edited March 2021
    @GeorgiaMB I use the air conditioner when boondocking.  Does require more solar panels, more batteries, and a bigger inverter. $2-3k extra investment... but power won't ever be an issue again. A generator works too though.
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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    Basil48192Basil48192 Member Posts: 266
    I have a 2021 T@B 320S and, after 2 full days on a cloudy weekend last fall, dipped well under 50% discharge on my 100 Amp/hour lead acid battery.  It was a cold weekend, so I had the heat going both nights and the fridge going the whole time. 
    I have been agonizing all winter on my battery upgrade and am getting ready to pull the trigger on two, VMAX XTR6-235 AH, AGM, 6V batteries.  I was very hesistant but just found that if I order them in a pair, I can get two for $560.  
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    Basil48192Basil48192 Member Posts: 266
    Sorry...that price was from Ebay...substantially lower than Amazon.
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