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Will Champion dual-fuel 2500 power the Cool Cat?

rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
in Battery/Electrical & Solar
We are considering a generator primarily to recharge the batteries over cloudy weekends when solar cannot keep up. We want a generator with fuel flexibility so we don't have to tote gas cans around on each trip. We also figure if we're buying a generator, we might as well get one with enough oomph to power the AC. Gas and propane on the Champion 2500 both offer 2500 starting watts and 1850/1665 running watts, respectively. Is the propane powered wattage of 1665 enough to run the Cool Cat or would we need to jump to the Champion 3400 model?
2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • manyman297manyman297 Member Posts: 1,357
    edited March 2021
    The running wattage looks to barely be enough. I think the Cool Cat pulls 1300 watts or so. It’s really the startup that’s the main issue for most but at 2500 watts I think you’d be fine. I considered a dual fuel but the reduction in power using propane made it not worth it for us. I just bought a Westinghouse igen2500 that was on sale. Gas only. I think it should work. I didn’t want anything larger since the weight would become an issue (payload).
    2021 400 BD
    2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 
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  • AirBossAirBoss Member Posts: 740
    A fair number of threads on here about genetic so do a search for Champion Dual Fuel.

    Cat runs at 1330W. Once started, you won't be able to run much else. Starting is the big initial draw. An easy start device can help there as well. 

    Depending on what you regard as "essential" in your camping experience, this may fit the bill. 
    2020 T@B 400 "OTTO" (build date 08/19)
    Factory Victron Solar; Norcold 3-way fridge
    '04 Chevy Tahoe Z71 DinoKiller
    San Diego, CA
    www.airbossone.com
    https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/owen-ashurst/shop


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  • N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 1,261
    I know for a fact a Honda 2200 will work on propane, but NOT all generators have same ability even though rated about same. I believe the Honda has a 50% bigger displacement than most 2k class of generators and I think that is true for Champion too.
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite
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  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 738
    rhyno said:
    We are considering a generator primarily to recharge the batteries over cloudy weekends when solar cannot keep up. We want a generator with fuel flexibility so we don't have to tote gas cans around on each trip. We also figure if we're buying a generator, we might as well get one with enough oomph to power the AC. Gas and propane on the Champion 2500 both offer 2500 starting watts and 1850/1665 running watts, respectively. Is the propane powered wattage of 1665 enough to run the Cool Cat or would we need to jump to the Champion 3400 model?
    @rhyno
    Did you ever give the Champion 2500 dual fuel a try? I'm at the point of looking for the smallest genset I can carry to run the Coolcat - and would love the option to use propane. The specs per Champion seem to support it working for the Coolcat, even on propane -  as the propane running watts and amps are listed as 1665W and 13.9A with a healthy starting 2500 watts.
    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock!
    2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    edited June 2021
    *edited*
    @ChrisFix - we haven't taken the plunge yet. It looks like a Soft Start would be needed if we go with the Champion 2500. Luckily@evdvorkin recently worked out the details for the install and testing of this combo.



    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 738
    @rhyno
    Funny thing, just after writing the post to you, I saw a new post with a video from a forum member with a 2021 400 and the champion 2500 dual fuel installing a soft start because he couldn't get it to operate reliably without it. I just left a comment in his YouTube video wondering if the 16 gauge looking extension cord he had hooked up to it might be contributing to the starting issue. All that said, I've ordered the same 2500 champion dual fuel to be delivered in a couple of days from Lowe's hardware store, so I'll get to test it out for myself I guess. If it doesn't work I'll install a soft start as well, because it's really the right size generator for what I want, and I don't intend to ever run it with gasoline.
    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock!
    2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    edited June 2021
    Sam's Club has the Champion Dual Fuel 2500 #200962 on sale for $499 right now. This one is slightly different than the #200961 in the youtube video above and has two 2.1A USB ports instead of the single 8A 12volt plugin. For $100 difference in price I can do without the 12volt plug.
    SoftStartRV is on sale for $299 with free shipping and 90 day trial. 
    I pulled the trigger on both tonight and will report back with results.
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    edited July 2021
    **Update**
    I received my Champion 2500 and the SoftStartRv unit today. The Champion WILL power the Cool Cat on propane while using the stock 30amp cord that came with the camper and a Camco 55165 dogbone adapter. It bogs down a bit with nothing else running and if I'm in eco mode the compressor doesn't kick on so I'm running full power at the moment. By comparison, the YouTube video above shows that setup running in eco mode with the SoftStartRV intstalled.
    I am going to go ahead and install the SoftStart to ease the load on the generator, give us some breathing room on the amp draw and allow the generator to run in eco mode. 
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • rrcbovrrcbov Member Posts: 109
    I recently learned that there is power degradation associated with altitude, I think I remember it being about 14% at 4,000 feet but don’t quote me!   Something to keep in mind.  Maybe you don’t have to have AC at altitude?

    I installed my soft start last week and only made two bonehead moves - good performance for me.   I’ll probably get the Champion Dual Fuel but still agonizing over the support for Honda in the community.  The Honda with the propane conversion is twice the price of the Champion.  Best I can tell the Honda is quieter, weighs 8 pounds more, and produces a little less power.  
    2021 Tab 400 Boondock, 2021 Toyota Tacoma, Juno Beach Florida
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  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 738
    edited July 2021
    **UPDATE - SOLVED**
    See thread noted below, but the installation sheet's step 1 called for moving and connecting "the white wire"....which for MY Coolcat, is actually the White/Blue wire. Working great now.
    ********************************************************************************************
    @rhyno @rrcbov
    I installed a SoftStart yesterday, thought it was working, but realize it isn't starting the compressor at all. Unwired it, and the Coolcat is working normally. Either of you have the Coolcat actually cooling (i.e. turning on the compressor) with the SoftStart installed? If so, can you help me out with installation details?
    If the SoftStart is running with just LED1 Green, then you have it working correctly. If LED2 remains on (Red) or LED1 goes to Red, then the compressor isn't running.

    Details of my installation are in this thread:
    https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13834/soft-start-installation#latest

    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock!
    2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    @ChrisFix
    Glad your install worked out well. I'm going to try to get my SoftStart installed after this heat wave breaks. 
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 738
    rhyno said:
    @ChrisFix
    Glad your install worked out well. I'm going to try to get my SoftStart installed after this heat wave breaks. 
    Yeah, it gets very toasty, very quickly working in the T@B with the power and air conditioner off.  Hot here too!
    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock!
    2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
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  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 738
    edited July 2021
    @rhyno
    I received my 2500 Dual Fuel today, and after reading the 175 reviews on the Champion website, I was a bit apprehensive regarding it starting easily on propane. I'd say half of those reviews mention starting on propane, with most saying it was difficult to impossible, with about 10% saying it started easily.
    I'm thrilled that I seem to have hit the lottery and have an easy starting generator.
    During the very first 'priming pulls', it coughed to life on the third light pull. I continued to prime the 5 pulls, switched to Propane and it started on the second starting pull.
    I ran it for about 15 minutes, shut it off and let it cool down, repeated the starting process and it started on the first starting pull.
    If you haven't already read this on the Champion site (in the reviews), doing 10 priming pulls, then switching to Propane for the staring pull, seems to work for a few people reporting their experience - but I've been using Champion's instructions and priming with 5 pulls, then one quick starting pull with the dial set to Propane, and it seems to work every time.
    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock!
    2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
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  • SlackersSlackers Member Posts: 460
    We have this generator.  It usually starts easily.  So far I have had trouble starting it one time.  The solution was to turn it back to the prime/choke setting.  I pulled once (again) and it sputtered and then I immediately switched over to propane and it ran great.  All-in-all we really like our Champion 2500 Dual Fuel generator.
    2019 Tab 320 CSS, 2019 Ranger TV, OH
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  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 738
    edited July 2021
    I just completed the 5 hour break-in on my Champion 2500. Did the entirety of it on propane, which I hope to use exclusively in this generator.

    There is lots of metal in the oil that came out of it after 5 hours. In hindsight, I would've have done an oil change after the first hour, then again after 5 if I thought there would be this much metal to get out of the engine.
    All that being said, it runs smoothly and quietly, and starts easily everytime on propane. So I think it is going to be a good generator for me.


    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock!
    2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
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  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 738
    edited July 2021
    So I finally had all the bits and pieces needed to run my air conditioner off the Champion using propane (5 hour break-in, hour meter, softstart, neutral bonding plug, 15A to 30A dogbone with a straight-out 15 amp plug) - and on a 90 degree day at about 750 ft above sea level, the air conditioner runs flawlessly with the Champion set to eco mode. It is nice to have this relatively compact back up system...
    And while the generator is far from truly quiet when running on propane with a load (it does increase RPMs to provide the power needed to run the compressor), you can barely hear it in the T@B when the air conditioner is running (with the generator literally just 5 feet outside the bathroom area).
    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock!
    2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
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  • rhynorhyno Member Posts: 393
    edited August 2021
    @ChrisFix - I have the Hughes Watchdog EPO30 and it threw the "E1" low voltage error a few times this morning, shutting the power off from the generator to our Tab until it stabilized for 90 seconds. I have the SoftStart installed and the generator is always in Eco mode. I wasn't running anything else and the Watchdog app usually shows ~13A/1440W when our AC is running. The generator has 15 hours on it and I did the break in oil change at 5 hours.
    Have you seen any low volt issues yet with your setup or do you not run your gen in Eco mode? 
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2021 Lexus GX 460, Kansas City MO
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  • ChrisFixChrisFix Member Posts: 738
    edited August 2021
    @rhyno
    I've only run the air conditioner for about an hour (in Eco Mode) in my driveway to test the system, and it ran flawlessly during that test. I have the hardwired version of the Hughes Watchdog. I did my testing with a 15' RV 30A cord to minimize potential voltage drop - though I have no back to back testing with a 25' cord to know if that mattered.
    Would be nice to be able to see what the actual voltage the Champion is making when you're getting the Low Voltage error - to help isolate which piece of equipment is at fault (Watchdog or Champion).
    I did use the Champion at 6,000 ft this week to run the microwave (which is only for a few minutes at a time), and it worked for that on propane, but was definitely louder at altitude than at home - but it did start and run which I wasn't certain it would without a different jet.
    Thankfully, air conditioning was needed this week at that elevation in the NC Blue Ridge.

    I had watched this YouTube test of the Dual Fuel 2500 and it stress tested the generator on propane (and gas), and the voltage held steady at 118V at  1,700 watts (starts propane test at about 12:30), and didn't drop voltage until he tries to overload it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIvn-yBErLY
    After two years of looking and considering...finally the proud owner of a 2021 T@B 400 Boondock!
    2023 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E with Redarc Trailer Brake Controller
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  • rrcbovrrcbov Member Posts: 109
    OK - my Champion gets to me later this week.   I read the user manual and don’t really understand the “eco” mode (see below).   When I read this I wonder why one would ever want to run it in other than the “eco” mode.   Is there some reason not to use the “eco” mode?

    The Eco Mode button can be activated to turn on economy control in order to minimize fuel consumption and noise while operating the unit during times of reduced electrical output. Eco Mode allows the engine speed to idle during periods of non-use.
    The engine speed returns to normal when an electrical load is connected. When the economy switch is off, the engine runs at normal speed continuously.

     
    2021 Tab 400 Boondock, 2021 Toyota Tacoma, Juno Beach Florida
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  • tcassemtcassem Member Posts: 11
    Depends on the power consumption required. The more power required, the unit will not run in eco mode, but will bump up to full power.

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  • CruiserCamperChrisCruiserCamperChris Member Posts: 87
    How much propane is used when running the Champion for 12 hours to run the cool cat AC, with it oh, lets say 90 outside?
    Karen and Chris
    2021 T@B 400, 2018 Land Cruiser
    Dallas, Texas
    “May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.” Edward Abbey
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  • RickyRicky Member Posts: 27
    I just fired up the Air in my 2022 Tab 400 with my Champion 2500 inverter running on propane. The Air started up just fine. I’ve read where others haven’t been as fortunate. May be some truth all are not alike.
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