2019 TAB400 Factory Solar Panels Dead?

ObtuseMoose

When I prepared my 2019 TAB 400 Boondock Lite (with factory solar panels) for a trip a week ago, I was distressed to find the battery voltage at about 10V (ouch!).  The charge controller showed 0.03 volts from the panels even though it was a bright sunny day.  I checked the wire connections on the controller and all were tight except for the negative wire to the battery; it seems it was never tightened at the factory as it took several complete turns with a screwdriver to tighten it and lock in the wire.

I measured the panel voltage at the controller with my multimeter and confirmed the 0 volt reading the controller was showing.  I got up on the roof and pulled apart the MC4 connectors and found the voltage from each panel was 0 volts! 

I know the panels worked and kept the batteries charged when the trailer was new, so this is a new problem.

The trailer has been stored in the open with the solar panels exposed to full sunlight since last fall.

Is it possible these panels are truly dead?  What could cause such a failure?  The MC4 connectors on the roof seem properly assembled and tight, so I don't think it's a broken wire or bad connection problem.  Any advice?

pthomas745

I've had panels fail in different ways, but never seen a 0 volts.  Can you get to the little junction box directly at the panel to test the voltage?

ObtuseMoose

pthomas745 said:

Can you get to the little junction box directly at the panel to test the voltage?

It doesn't seem like it.  I assume you mean the little (about 3/8" x 3/8" x 4") rectangular box with the wires coming out at the top of the panel (see attached image).  The wires seem to be permanently attached there, or at least I don't see an obvious connector and don't want to pull on them too hard. The boxes themselves are glued to the panel with some sort of goop. 

I have disconnected them from the 2-to-1 (parallel) MC4 junctions and measured each individual panel, both being 0 V.

DesertDweller

The factory solar panel on my 2019 T@B 320 BDL also failed this way.  It would charge for a few minutes when the sun came up (or first exposed to light) and then would indicate that it was nighttime and would put out nothing. At first I thought it was the solar charger and then something in the wiring somewhere.  I finally brought it back to the dealer and they checked the panel itself.  Had to have it replaced.  When it was removed from the roof the spec decal on the back indicated it was a Zamp Solar.  

XenanMe

Unfortunately it does happen.  Mine failed last year (2018 Tab) and had to be replaced.  The flexible ones are more sensitive to heat and often fail sooner.  This is a good video on how to diagnose the problem: https://youtu.be/IPq_d4ftYnM 

ObtuseMoose

DesertDweller said:

Had to have it replaced.

XenanMe said:

Mine failed last year (2018 Tab) and had to be replaced.

Argh.  That's what I didn't want to hear, but with no voltage at the outputs of either panel, I kind of expected that. Would either of you mind giving a ballpark on what the cost to replace the panels was? And where did you get the replacements?

XenanMe

I ordered a new panel from Amazon and installed it myself.  If I were to do it again I would invest in a Renogy panel.  I really cheaped out on the panel and got a no-name brand and am regretting it.  I will probably need to replace it again next year because the cheap panel is already starting to fail. 

DenisP

I had a similar problem this spring with my 2018 400 with factory solar.  I replaced the panels with two Renogy 100 w panels.  I decided to install the new panels over the failed panels.  The Renogy panels were the same width but were 6 inches longer.  I made two 6 inch extension panels from lexan with stainless bolts on the bottom.  The installation was straight forward with 3M VHB tape. The performance has been very impressive.  As a side note, one of the MC4 was faulty on one of the factory panels and probably never worked.

DesertDweller

ObtuseMoose said:

DesertDweller said:

Had to have it replaced.

XenanMe said:

Mine failed last year (2018 Tab) and had to be replaced.

Argh.  That's what I didn't want to hear, but with no voltage at the outputs of either panel, I kind of expected that. Would either of you mind giving a ballpark on what the cost to replace the panels was? And where did you get the replacements?

Because the only thing I am handy at is pushing paper from one part of the bureaucracy to another, I purchased an extended warranty when I bought my T@B.  So, it was covered by that warranty. 

bamboofly

That is a typical life span of the glue on flexible solar panels. Happened to me also. Will never user buy them again.

Denny16

Cheers

Verna

My 2019 T@B 400 had two 100 watt Zamp flexible solar panels, 200 watts total. 

ObtuseMoose

A 2019 TaB400 factory solar panel is a single (not two panels), 193-watt so,Sr panel that is wired from inside the TaB, no junction box, MC4 connectors or wires are visible from the outside.  The wire is routed under the roof and along side the vent tube on the driver’s side of the TaB. 

I seem to recall reading somewhere that they switched from the 2-panel installs to a single panel sometime in the 2019 model year.  I purchased my 400 in August, 2018, so it was one of the early 2019 models. 

If you look at the first 2 pictures in DenisP's post, you can see the shorter factory panels and exposed wiring from before he installed the Renogy panels over top of them.  His was a 2018 model, so I assume nuCamp used up their remaining stock of that style on the early 2019s.

Denny16

OK, that is interesting…. Previous posts on TaB400 solar panel installs, indicated nüCamp started out with two 100-watt panels when they first released the TaB400 in 2018, and then went to a single panel after Jan 2018.  Our TaB400 was built in Jan 2018, and has the single 193 Watt Sunflair Solar panel, no exposed wires.

Vera, did your 2019 TaB400 have any exposed wires on the roof connecting the panels up?
Cheers

DenisP

My Tab 400 was built March 2018 and the solar was factory installed with two 100 w panels and exposed wiring with MC4 connectors on the roof.  The factory also installed a generic solar controller which I upgraded to a Victron 75/15. 

Denny16

cheers

DenisP

Some additional information, when my panels failed, I contacted NuCamp to get information about my installed panels to check on warranty coverage since no information was available in the owners packet.  The installed panels (Non-Renogy) had a one year warranty which had expired.  The new panels from Renogy had the following warranty: 5 year 95% output warranty, 10 year 90% output warranty, 25 year 80% output warranty.  I felt that additional warranty of the Renogy panels would be beneficial should they fail in next few years.  The original panels lasted 3 years.
Since it appears that flexible solar panels have a limited life, I decided to install the new panels over the failed panels so if a replacement was needed the roof would be protected upon removal.  There was a risk of damaging the roof finish removing the original panels attached with VHB tape. To change out future failed panels the only surface which would be at risk would be the original failed panels.

Denny16

Cheers

ObtuseMoose

DenisP said:

Since it appears that flexible solar panels have a limited life, I decided to install the new panels over the failed panels so if a replacement was needed the roof would be protected upon removal.  There was a risk of damaging the roof finish removing the original panels attached with VHB tape. To change out future failed panels the only surface which would be at risk would be the original failed panels.

I like the sound of that, DenisP; the less messing about with the roof, the better.  Is the only thing holding the new panels on the VHB tape?  It kind of looks like there are screws or some sort of fasteners at the bottoms of the panels.  Are those bolts just through your acrylic extension panels?

Is the VHB tape only around the edges, or did you run some strips down the middle?

Any concerns with the bond weakening after it's been out in the weather for a few seasons?

Finally, if you had to do it over again, what would you do differently the 2nd time? :-)

DenisP

The original panels had screws top and bottom, I removed the screws and applied sealant on the bottom screw holes. I used the 1 inch VHB tape around the perimeter of the new panels after I thoroughly cleaned the old panels with alcohol. I used stainless bolts on the bottom of the Lexan panels which I used to attach the panel using stainless stop nuts. Since the VHB is pretty much a one and done application without ability to move after contact, I attached the panels with the bottom bolts as an alignment assist while finishing the attachment. Once in place I applied light pressure around the perimeter to fully seat the tape, reused the top screws with sealant and fully tightened the bottom bolts.
I am confident the VHB will hold up well as the original installation was with VHB tape according to Austin to remove it from a roof is a process even after years of use.
I really am pleased with how the installation worked out and I am confident that if the new panels need to be replaced it will be quite straightforward process with minimal risk to my precious roof.  The Renogy panel warranty will cover the panel cost should they fail in the future.