Solved and Fixed! - Please Help! Plumbing Broke on Shower Drain!

Oinfront

Hello! I purchased a used 2019 400 a few months ago. Ive been going around the camper to get familiar with everything. This is my second camper and I like to do my own fixes if possible. I opened up the compartment "vent" under the bathroom in the Tab 400. It has access to the trap and drain for the shower pan. I was feeling around to make sure things were good and the drain where the shower dumps into the grey tank was loose. Curious I took off the pipe and found that the pipe fitting to the grey tank had broke! This is an extremely tight fit and Im not sure how I would repair this. The broken piece glued to the grey tank would need to be removed somehow. Not sure if the grey tank needs to be dropped from the frame and then repaired? I dont think I  could repair it from the small area under the shower pan. This needs to be repaired asap. If I was to tow with the grey tank having anything in it, it could splash up and enter the cabin, not to mention if it was filled. 

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Sharon_is_SAM

Email help@nucamprv.com and include this thread.  Ask for repair suggestions.  I suspect you will need to drop the gray tank to replace the pipe.  

Oinfront

Thank you yes I sent an email to Nucamp today. Anyone have any idea how hard/easy to drop the grey would be? I was also thinking I could get a small section of pipe that would be the inner diameter of the broken pipe and connect the two pieces together. That would just constrict the flow a bit. But it would just be soapy water going through it. 

Denny16

That would be the best solution, add a inner sleeve and glue the bits back together.  While you are at it, you might consreplacing the P Trap with a HEVPO drain connection, and plug the drilled hole below the P Trap, to take,the strain off the gray tank connection.  Not sure why nüCamp didn’t have the HEVPO trap connection on your 2019 TaB400? Ours was built in Jan 2018, and has the HEVPO trap connection.

The gray tank has several connections to it, incurring thr galley sink and washroom sink, along with a vent pipe behind the washroom sink cabinet.  Dropping the tank would be a major undertaking.
cheers

Oinfront

Thank you. Good call in the Hevpo. I hadn't heard about that. The current P trap is actually a rubber p trap, so there isn't really any support for the longer horizontal pipe. That def could have caused the break. I imagine the Hevpo is an easy install

manyman297

I wonder if somebody of considerable weight used the bathroom and stressed the p-trap connection? I’ve wondered what the weight limits are for the shower pan. I know there’s strategically placed wood supports but there are sections of the floor that feel soft underfoot.

Maybe using a flexible connection to the gray water tank would make more sense so that span of pipe isn’t rigid and can flex.

ScottG

I also like the idea of patching with an inner sleeve--that was my first thought of what I would try before I even got to the end of your original post. I also like the idea of incorporating a flexible coupling (such as a Ferno connector) if space allows. From your photos, it looks like that might already be SOP for some of the connections around the trap.

The challenge may be finding a pipe of compatible material (i.e., one that can be securely glued to the existing pipes) and exact outside diameter. The plumbing used in most homes is PVC but I think the black stuff used in RVs is a different material with different glue requirements. Hopefully someone whose actually made repairs to their T@B drains can chime in with more specifics. Good luck--I look forward to your report of what you finally come up with for a solution.  

Oinfront

Thanks @manyman297 and @ScottG I was also thinking about the weight of someone heavy and the pan not being able to support that weight. And great call regarding a flex coupling. If I can incorporate that into the fix I def will. Hopefully I will hear something back from Nucamp and they can give me some input. I have the camper in storage and plan to go today and get measurements of the internal pipe and keep my fingers crossed that there is a perfect fir out there. I will follow up with the fix and pictures once I have one. 

manyman297

They probably should call out a weight limit somewhere in the bathroom. I thought it was odd that the sticker on the shower pan mentioned nothing about weight (unless I missed something). 

I also wonder if it would be wise to shore up around the drain with another 2x4 support or something similar. Seems like that's where things could fail.

Scrunchy

1 1/2 pvc thread extractor 

Pintoplumber

Ok, from what I’m seeing, you have a 2” ABS plastic male adapter screwed into the top of the gray tank that has broken off leaving the threads in the tank. Or perhaps the threads are still there. If they are, try and remove them. Then reconstruct what you have there. Screw a 2” PVC male adapter into the tank, then a 2” 90, a 2x1 1/2” bushing and a 1 1/2” S 90 to reconnect to the trap. Doesn’t look too hard especially if the broken threads fell into the tank.

Denny16

Good idea, as long as the threaded coupler was not originally glued in, if it was, then…
As noted the black pipes are the same as the black sewer pipes used in homes, ABS, which is different from the white plumbing pipes.
cheers

bergger

After seeing this thread I decided to open the access panel under the bathroom in our 2021 400 to see what it looks like.  It's identical to Oinfronts 2019 400.  Same p trap set up.  It all looked good to me.  As far as any concern of excessive weight stressing the connections below the floor.  After looking at our bathroom subfloor I am not concerned at all about that.  Ours is made of 3/4" birch plywood and I could not get the subfloor to move at all when standing in it, 185lbs and bouncing up and down.  It is very sturdy.  Now the plastic shower pan may compress slightly when you stand on it but this did not affect any movement at all in the subfloor.  The rubber p trap moves maybe 1/16" of an inch when I stepped on the shower drain but that was it and had no ill effect on the other plumbing below.  I wonder what happened to Oinfronts trailer to cause that break.  Possibly happened during construction??? Anyway I hope you can get it fixed soon and look forward to your solution.  

Oinfront

My camper is in storage and I went today to measure the internal diameter of the broken piece. It is 1.5". Of course cant find any pipe at Lowes, Home Depot or other stores with piping that has an OD of 1.5". I did find this extender and ordered it. Supposed to arrive Friday/Saturday

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spears-S0301-15-1-1-2-PVC-Sch-40-Pipe-Extender-Pipe-O-D-Spigot-x-Pipe-I-D-Spigot?gclid=CjwKCAjwq9mLBhB2EiwAuYdMtRmY8PEobxWDMrsNTjPz3B2yI1Akc4T_m0pBnUDg2xfXaDIoMYM4VxoCwkwQAvD_BwE

It will allow me to at least rebuild using the existing broken pipe. 

I assumed the broken piece was not a threaded piece screwed into the grey tank though. I will see if there is some way I can try to back that piece out somehow if it is screwed in and not glued. 

Also I ordered a HEVPO for the shower drainage in replacement of the P Trap. And I also realized that my kitchen sink already has the HEVPO. I did not realize that was what it was until this thread. 

I have not received a response from Nucamp as of yet, but eagerly await their response. 

Thank you to everyone that has responded. Some great info

Oinfront

@Scrunchy I think you are the winner! I received a response back from Nucamp stating that they would use a special tool to extract that broken piece. Which is what @Scrunchy posted. It is threaded and seems just tape is used to seal. They also recommend to take the camper to a dealer to have it done. I am not paying to have that done unless its the last resort. I will tackle it this weekend and post outcome. Again thank you for all responses! Below is the response from Nucamp:

Denny16

That sounds like a plan, good luck.
cheers

Scrunchy

Winner winner chicken dinner !! Lol, Glad to help. I just repaired my cracked shower drain so I’m familiar with the job you’re up against, looks like you have a little more room than I did. Good luck. 

Oinfront

So I couldn't wait. I tackled this today. I had some issues figuring out the order of piping at first. The HEVPO and the original ABS piping doesn't really work together. The sizing is different. So I ended up going with sink piping. First off the pipe removal tool worked perfectly. I had no issues. I put it in, hammered it a bit to seat it and then backed it out. No issues and a sigh of relief! 

Secondly, I did not want to go through this again. I feel the glueing of all the joints with the OEM spec makes it difficult to fix if something does break. So I wanted to make it so if there was a failure again I could replace sections without having to redo the whole setup. I used all threaded joints with tapered rubber seals and taped threads. That way I can replace sections if this occurs again VS having to replace everything again. Only one part is glued and that is just after the threaded piece that originally broke. I used a flexible expanding accordion pipe for the 90 degree to the grey tank so that things can move during towing without breaking. All these pipes are not as stout as the original ABS pipes, but its just soapy shower water going through so I feel I shouldn't have any issues. Knock on wood.

Tested everything and it works great with no leaks. I will of course be keeping an eye on it for the next couple of trips. Here are pictures. I hope no one else has to deal with this!

ChrisFix

@Oinfront
Great info for future repairs! I'd suggest keeping an eye on those slip joints for a while to make sure you don't develop any leaks - that is probably the biggest advantage of the glued ABS piping.
I am curious why nuCamp doesn't install a HEPVO on the shower drain (2021 400) and avoid the large hole in the floor for the P-trap. 

ScottG

Well done, @Oinfront. A thoughtful and elegant solution to a challenging problem. I geek out on plumbing and I've learned some new stuff in this discussion!  :-)

Sharon_is_SAM

Sweet!  I thought for sure that you would need to drop the gray tank.  Going to fill in the hole left over from the shower trap?

Oinfront

I do plan to fill that hole at some point. Maybe with a cutout from an old styrofoam cooler or something. Something that would not require going to the store to spend money on lol

manyman297

Great job! @Oinfront did you find working in that space challenging? I've had that cover off but don't really recall how much working space is under there. 

Bayliss

Excellent repair job, @Oinfront!  The photo documentation is very helpful and much appreciated.  This discussion thread is a great example of T@B owners collaborating to solve a problem.  Well done by all who contributed.

Denny16

Do plug the hole, it goes through the floor to the top of the gray tank, and dust can work it’s way in, along with small critters.  If you use a foam plug, it should be a closed cell ridged type foam, and caulk it in with a good window caulk.  Also you could add foam caulking robe just around the edge of both holes to seal them up, the foam robe should be a tight fit.

Your repair looks great.  Yes, you need to use sink drain bits with the HEVPO valve, as it is a sink fitting.

Chris, nüCamp did use a HEVPO valve on the late 2018 and early 2019 builds, some trailers seem to have them, some do not.  My Jan 2018 build has a factory installed HEVPO valve on the shower, but did not under the galley sink. So I added one under the sink.  Most of the 2019 ad later builds have the HEVPO valve under the galley sink.  

As a side note, rigs with a HEVPO valve do not need RV Antifreeze poured down the HEVPO trap, as it does not hold any significant, if any, amounts of water to cause freezing.
cheers

ChrisFix

Chris, nüCamp did use a HEVPO valve on the late 2018 and early 2019 builds, some trailers seem to have them, some do not.  My Jan 2018 build has a factory installed HEVPO valve on the shower, but did not under the galley sink. So I added one under the sink.  Most of the 2019 ad later builds have the HEVPO valve under the galley sink.  

Yes, later models have the HEPVO under the kitchen sink...but a standard p-trap under the shower, that necessitates cutting a hole in the floor for it to fit. Seems like it would be a much better idea for nuCamp to install a HEPVO under the shower as well - but they aren't doing that.

Denny16

Seems they did not in 2021 Chris.  I agree, a HEVPO trap on the shower is better tHan drilling a hole in the floor.  Our late 2018 (Jan 2018 build) as a factory HEVPO valve on the shower, but don’t on the sink.  The early 2019 TaB400s had a HEVPO valve on both the galley sink and Shower.  The shower/washroom sink had a P Trap in the drain line.  Now sure why nüCamp stopped using the HEVPO trap on the showers?  There was a previous discussion on this very topic.
cheers

Horigan

My 2019 400 does not have a HEVPO under the shower, but there is one for the galley sink.  Probably stopped due to cost?

bergger

Nice job on the repair!  As far as the existing hole beneath the old p trap on my 2021 is does not go through to the gray tank.  It is sealed/covered with rigid foam board and I imagine the tank is possibly underneath the foam.  It does not appear that anything can get through it as the area in mine was pristine with no signs of dust intrusion or anything else.  But not sure why they don't just use a hevpo trap instead of the p trap. 

Denny16

Thanks bergger, good to know the hole does not go through, hard to tell from the photos.  Out 400 has a hole cut in the floor for the fresh water tank lines which come in from the top of the tank, and the hole went all the way through.  It let a lot of dust into the trailer under the closet and Alde area, after going across the dirt roads to Burning Man on the desert.

Yes, it’s odd, some 2019s have the shower HEVPO, others do not.  I prefer having the HEPVO to having an extra hole in the floor, and having to worry about adding antifreeze to it.  Also, traps can empty their water plug while traveling, allowing holding tank smells into the trailer.
cheers

Oinfront

manyman297 said:

Great job! @Oinfront did you find working in that space challenging? I've had that cover off but don't really recall how much working space is under there. 

Thank you. It was a little challenging but not too bad. Screwing in the threaded adapter to the grey tank was the hardest. I could only hand tighten it. I did not have the necessary tool for that application. I did use a glove with a rubber coating to provide grip and feel very confident that it is tight enough. And then I had to dry fit everything beforehand due to the space constraint. So I put everything together first as it would be finished, screwed in just the threaded adapter to the grey tank and then put the whole piece together in while glueing the whole piece to the adapter. Then all I had to do was screw the end to the shower drain. Not to bad. Im just glad I was able to get this done. I have a 6 day Mountain Bike trip coming up!