hybrid suv to tow a 320

Denny16

The only difference between a standard TaB320 and the Boondock edition is a few pounds of added weight and a higher ground clearance, which raises the front height of the trailer up, and possibly add a bit of additional frontal surface drag.  If the SUV can tow a standard 320, it should have no issue with a Boondock 320.  

With our TaB400, which started out as a standard model, then we converted it to a Boondock by adding the new axle and wheels, the added height did cut about 2 mpg from our average towing mileage per gallon, going from 16/18 to 16/14 mpg when towing. 

Cheers 

Pmullally

Darrylagreen said:

We have a Highlander Hybrid V4 2022. We are looking to buy a 320. New? Used? How much difference is there in pulling a Boondock? This will be our first camper experience. We are in N. California. Welcome any advice.

I am considering purchasing a Highlander hybrid for our 2021 T@b 320 boondock. I now drive a 2016 tacoma and already started the process of trading it in. My one concern is the hitch wait on the highlanders back end and was curious if owners experience any “squat” in the back. I don’t want to get into a weight distribution system. 
I hope to read any responses to your thread.

Horigan

I think with a 320 you should be fine on any squat concerns.  Note that the Highlander manual (at least for the 2013) states that "sway control" is required when towing over 2000 lbs.  I haven't done that for my 400 yet and I haven't had any sway issues, likely due in part due to the high tongue weight of our 400.  Just something to be aware of.

CharlieRN

I've has a reservation for a Rivian R1S in place for some time (nearly 3 years!), and follow the issue of towing and EV range quite closely. As others have indicated, the overwhelming majority of range loss while towing is due to aerodynamic issues, with weight playing a minor role. Rivian's own towing test of an 11,000 lb box trailer with the R1T pickup (essentially identical to the R1S, but with a longer truck body & wheelbase), resulted in a 50% range loss. The range loss in towing the smaller, far lighter and somewhat streamlined T@B 320 with the R1T was disappointingly (for me anyway), just a tad better.

I would expect to do somewhat better with the Rivian SUV because of marginally better aerodynamics, so perhaps the range loss will only be a bit under 40%. I'll spare folks the tedious EV range assumptions and calculations, but that relatively modest 40% hit will still mean stopping to recharge about every 130 miles with the R1S. That's much less than the R1S max range of 321 miles, and is a fair bit more frequently than we now stop for either refueling or a bio break when towing with our Telluride. Still, that may be tolerable.

To add some detail, we experience about a 30% range hit when towing with the Telluride, with highway mileage dropping to 16-17 mpg range. With about 16.8 gals of effective fuel capacity (nominal is 18.8 US gal), that means perhaps 270 miles before the low fuel light. In theory then, we could drive for nearly 5 hours at highway speeds without stopping to refuel. In practice, we'd prefer not to risk pulling in on fumes and anyway, neither our, nor our dog's bladders allow us much more than three or so hours. The big difference is that there are something like 115,000 gas stations located nearly everywhere that we can refuel at. By contrast, the 50,000 EV charging stations are concentrated on the coasts and there are large areas of the country that have few or none.

Mazda is introducing a new hybrid that uses a very small gas-powered Wankel (rotary) engine connected to an electrical generator. The gas engine does not drive the wheels as is the case with conventional hybrids and the engine/generator combination package is said to weigh only about 250 lbs.

For those not familiar with the rotary engine, it uses the same four-cycle internal combustion principles as conventional engines but has only a handful of moving parts. Their drawbacks are durability and poor fuel economy but this engine is quite small, spins at a constant rpm and uses newly developed ceramic seals that are said to be highly durable. Mazda has quite a bit of expertise with the rotary and sold sports cars here in the US with that engine for quite a few years.

In any event, the Mazda arrangement allows the car to use a much smaller and lighter battery pack, with the generator extending the range to that of comparable ICE vehicles. It's not clear that this concept will be successful, but it's interesting and could be a technology bridge until the charging infrastructure gets built out. Right now, it's only for the CX-30, a small SUV with limited towing capacity, and only on non-US models.

Edit: correct typo, added comment

Dbremmer

Thank You CharlieRN for interesting and useful information about EV range loss while towing.  I suppose that aerodynamics dominates because highway travel on a trip involves nearly constant speed, avoiding acceleration/deceleration energy usage.  It is mostly expending energy on rolling resistance and drag.  Uphill/downhill should be a wash unless you have a mostly all uphill trip.    Increasing EV options are promised. I am watching.  With rapid charge capabilities and promised infrastructure build out, EV towing may soon become attractive.

Good2go

UPDATE: Just adding some additional info to update my earlier comment regarding towing a '22 320 Boondock with a 21 Highlander hybrid.  Just completed a 7400 mile month long adventure from NH to Idaho and back.  The average gas mileage for the entire trip came out to 20MPG - that includes approx. 500 miles driving around without the trailer. I also had a Jack-It bike rack on the trailer with two 40 lb. bikes, and a Yakima cargo box on the vehicle, so I hit the max tongue weight of 350 lbs. When traveling on flat interstates, the car maintained a comfortable 70 MPH with no sway or issues - I do not use a WDH or a sway bar.  The only downside to the hybrid is some noticeable lack of power in only the worst circumstances i.e. very long climbs up some of those steep grades in Montana, when slowing to 45-50 seemed like the appropriate thing to do. The worst gas mileage while towing was 15.5 and the best was 23. Overall I was pleased with the performance of both the trailer and the hybrid TV.

GregChris

We tow a 2021 320s bd with a 2019 Highlander V6, non hybrid. We also have Jackit with 2 30lb bikes. My wife likes to take everything including the kitchen sink. MPG ave 16. Best 18.5, worst 14. There is no squat, even completely loaded, no sway either. I am wondering about towing with a 2023 hybrid, or the non hybrid Highlander, they are about 50hp short of the 2019 v6.

Flybone89

I can also add some real world experience to those asking earlier in this thread about towing with an EV. We just completed a 400+ mile trip with our Tesla Model Y towing our 2022 T@B 320 S Boondock. The range impact was less than expected - 40% reduction rather than an expected 50%. We averaged about 500 Wh/mi with a highway speed of 60 mph (most of the trip was interstate). This compares to a 1000 mile trip I took the week before without the trailer where I averaged 280 Wh/mi. On flat roads with a 4-5 mph tailwind I even got lower consumption of 450-480 Wh/mi.

Based on my experience so far, I plan for a usable "safe" range (assuming a charge curve of 10%-90%) of 120 miles. This is stopping every 2 hours, which is actually what we used to do before in our ICE tow vehicle which was every 1.5-2 hours. We like to stop and stretch a lot and usually end the day after just 3-4 hours to stay overnight - where we can also charge at most campgrounds. So this means just 2 charging stops per day. And there are plenty of charging options within 2 hours these days, so I don't think range will be an issue.

What will be an issue - at least for now - is where to stop. I have to do extra planning to make sure I plan charging stops that are trailer friendly (pull in or pull through spots). We stopped at 4 different Tesla superchargers on our trip - all of them had only one pull-in spot - and every time we stopped there was someone using the pull-in spot even though back-in spots were open. Three out of four people were willing to move to let us pull-in, but one was abandoned so I had to pull along side since the spots were empty. Yes, all back-in spots were empty, yet they used the one pull-in spot. I will avoid the rant here but if there are any Tesla owners reading this - please spread the word to other Tesla owners who don't tow not use the pull-in spots unless they have something on their hitch or it's the last one open.

The towing experience itself was amazing - keep in mind a Tesla Model Y has almost 400 lb/ft of torque so the T@B was barely noticeable. For the first time I had no concerns merging with a trailer! Most of the range impact is drag rather than weight, so ironically having a boondock with the higher height is more of a negative. I plan to replace the tires at some point with less aggressive tread / size to lower it some.

Overall, I am very happy towing with an EV and happy to answer any questions. I should point out this is our second Tesla and my wife just purchased a Volvo XC40 Recharge - so we already have experience with EV's on roadtrips, so the new variable was just the towing.

Kevin

Slackers

Which adapters did/do you use to charge your Y at non-Tesla chargers?

Flybone89

Slackers said:

Which adapters did/do you use to charge your Y at non-Tesla chargers?

I use a CCS adapter for non-Tesla DV fast chargers, but it is only temporary as most chargers and cars will eventually change to the NACS standard (Tesla adapter).

I also have a 14-50 amp, TT-30 amp, 5-15 amp adapters for the Tesla mobile charger for campsites - so I can pretty much charge anywhere I can find a plug!

Here is the CCS adapter I use for non-Tesla DC fast chargers (Electrify America, EVGo, etc.): https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter?web=true

Here is the TT-30 amp adapter which is for campsites with 30 amp hookups: https://www.evseadapters.com/shop/en/adapters-for-tesla-model-3-model-y-model-s-model-x-gen-2/20-tt-30-adapter-for-tesla-model-sx3y-gen-2.html

Kevin

Slackers

Thanks @Flybone89 for the report and the links.

Dbremmer

Thank you @Flybone89.   Your shared Model Y experience provides an encouraging data point.  I currently have a Tesla Model 3 extended range that could possibly tow my T@B 320 if I were to add a hitch.
These EVs are heavy with the battery packs so there should NOT be  "Tail wagging the dog" towing issues where hitch load reactions cause unscheduled lane changes.  Future SUV EVs offer more opportunities.