Battleborn vs REliON vs….battery experience/recommendation ?

khenke

Greetings!  Finally made the decision to move forward with a 100ah lithium battery for my 2021Tab 320. I am particularly interested in the internal heated batteries since I do go out at times in cold weather. 
I’ve read as many posts as I could to acquire a basic knowledge base of what I’m getting myself into :-)
So, one compelling question is what experience folks have had with the low temp or heated lithium batteries from Battleborn, RELiON, or any other companies? I realize this is somewhat new technology, but I would welcome any responses.  
If you don’t have experience with heated lithium batteries, I still would appreciate any comments about the different companies offering lithium batteries. 
Cheers,
Ken

pthomas745

Going out in "cold" weather is not the same as going out in "freezing" weather.  And, remember, the issue with lithium and temperatures is "charging" during freezing temperatures.  If you aren't charging in the cold, then there are no issues.  I have a lithium with no "charging temperature sensors" since I rarely encounter cold temps where I live and camp.  I can prevent my solar panel from charging with a simple temperature sensor on the solar controller.

Will Prowse has a video up about the many misconceptions about lithiums in cold weather, heated battery pads, etc.  Unless you are out there in extended temps below freezing, simply turning off the charging or simple insulation of the battery might serve as just as good protection for the battery.  Once you watch Will take apart a battery with a power saw, you will discover that underneath the pretty logos and web sites, the battery packs are mostly the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaiwxDUY9ho&t=305s

Dutch061

I have 4 x BB under the bed in our 2020 400 BDL. I also installed a temperature sensor (connects to a BMV-712 or a Victron Smart Shunt). By networking the BMV-712 with the MPPT Solar Charge Controller, I can set up a shutdown temperature for the Solar Charging independent of the BMS in the batteries.

What I have noticed is that the temperature is always warmer than the outside temperatures I am in. Partially because of the Alde is also under the bed but part is also due to the heat released when charging or discharging the battery.

I say all of this to be able to suggest that if you do install a Lithium Battery, that it would be wise to move it inside under the bunk as others have done.

This will prevent theft, but it will also provide a more stable temperature for it to live in. 

As far as the difference and which brand to choose, that is entirely up to the one who is paying for them.

I chose BB for the following reasons, not in any particular order.

1. Made (assembled) in the USA
2. Warranty
3. Installed customer base
4. Knowledge and support - you have a question, they have the answers, you don't have to wait for it.
5. Easy access via phone or email, always a prompt reply back when needed
6. Benchmark, they seem to be the "Brand" that all others are compared to

I probably have close to $4k invested between batteries, cables, converter and with this kind of amperage available (800 Amps for 30 seconds) I wanted to be sure I was using something that is well proven.

We typically boondock, and I can go for days at a time with minimal sun, I also carry a generator as a backup charging method. What I have found so far is that I rarely need to use the generator. I had originally installed 2 x BB early last summer but added 2 more in early November. Prior to adding the additional batteries, I used the generator much more often. 

Brad

khenke

Dutch061 said:

I have 4 x BB under the bed in our 2020 400 BDL. I also installed a temperature sensor (connects to a BMV-712 or a Victron Smart Shunt). By networking the BMV-712 with the MPPT Solar Charge Controller, I can set up a shutdown temperature for the Solar Charging independent of the BMS in the batteries.

What I have noticed is that the temperature is always warmer than the outside temperatures I am in. Partially because of the Alde is also under the bed but part is also due to the heat released when charging or discharging the battery.

I say all of this to be able to suggest that if you do install a Lithium Battery, that it would be wise to move it inside under the bunk as others have done.

This will prevent theft, but it will also provide a more stable temperature for it to live in. 

As far as the difference and which brand to choose, that is entirely up to the one who is paying for them.

I chose BB for the following reasons, not in any particular order.

1. Made (assembled) in the USA
2. Warranty
3. Installed customer base
4. Knowledge and support - you have a question, they have the answers, you don't have to wait for it.
5. Easy access via phone or email, always a prompt reply back when needed
6. Benchmark, they seem to be the "Brand" that all others are compared to

I probably have close to $4k invested between batteries, cables, converter and with this kind of amperage available (800 Amps for 30 seconds) I wanted to be sure I was using something that is well proven.

We typically boondock, and I can go for days at a time with minimal sun, I also carry a generator as a backup charging method. What I have found so far is that I rarely need to use the generator. I had originally installed 2 x BB early last summer but added 2 more in early November. Prior to adding the additional batteries, I used the generator much more often. 

Brad

Thanks Brad for taking the time for your reply. You provided some great info to consider. One situation you and others had mentioned about moving the batteries to the inside has a lot of merit. Did you do that yourself? And of course the fact you haven’t had any issues with the BB batteries is important to me as well. Cheers!

khenke

pthomas745 said:

Going out in "cold" weather is not the same as going out in "freezing" weather.  And, remember, the issue with lithium and temperatures is "charging" during freezing temperatures.  If you aren't charging in the cold, then there are no issues.  I have a lithium with no "charging temperature sensors" since I rarely encounter cold temps where I live and camp.  I can prevent my solar panel from charging with a simple temperature sensor on the solar controller.

Will Prowse has a video up about the many misconceptions about lithiums in cold weather, heated battery pads, etc.  Unless you are out there in extended temps below freezing, simply turning off the charging or simple insulation of the battery might serve as just as good protection for the battery.  Once you watch Will take apart a battery with a power saw, you will discover that underneath the pretty logos and web sites, the battery packs are mostly the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaiwxDUY9ho&t=305s

Thanks for the response and video you included. Incredibly valuable information! Yea, my “cold” weather adventures do happen, but on a limited basis. Thus, I have been on the fence about internally heated batteries. But the video has put my mind at ease regarding how lithiums react to the cold. This is the information I needed to make an informed decision! 
Cheers!

RMo

Depending on where you live, you may want some heating device in place if you store your camper outside for the winter.  Lithium batteries can be damaged by low temps (minimums safe temps seem to range from -4F to -13F depending on the manufacturer).  It is important to keep the temperature of the battery above these levels so a heat source may or may not be required.

pthomas745

Will Prowse is an amazing resource.  I don't even "really" need a 100ah lithium......but watching his videos made me "want" to.  I bought the basic, simple "Ampere Time" battery.  Less than 400 dollars.  So, if you have time, go through some of his earlier battery videos (as he suggests) and I'm sure he has taken apart every one of the "big time" batteries.  He has a page of "suggested" solar components, and lithium has a whole page by itself.  Check out the SOK batteries.  Many people have them in their trailers.
https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html

Dutch061

The 400 has the batteries installed inside from NuCamp, but I had to do be creative to put the first 2 in as they were 1/2" too long to fit. Of course, adding the other 2 was completely on me. I used 2/0 Cables that I custom made for this installation. 



I put the 2 additional batteries on a custom-made tray I made for HDPE.



Brad

WayneW

We boondock most of the time. It’s not uncommon for nighttime temps to drop below freezing where we like to camp, even in the middle of summer.
We went with a pretty basic lithium setup - a 100ah Ampere Time battery ($370), a Victron Battery Sense ($40), and an AiLi battery monitor ($44).  I have this all mounted in the front tub in an insulated box that I built. 

The Battery Sense networks with the on-board Victron solar charge controller and I have it set to prevent charging below 32F. I use the battery monitor to keep an eye on things. I use this information to decide when or if to deploy our Renogy 100w solar suitcase. 

This setup works very well for us. I’m also kind of cheap. Everyone has different needs and budgets.  And some, including me, just like to fiddle with stuff and put our own spin on things. Decide what works for you and go with it!

khenke

WayneW said:

We boondock most of the time. It’s not uncommon for nighttime temps to drop below freezing where we like to camp, even in the middle of summer.
We went with a pretty basic lithium setup - a 100ah Ampere Time battery ($370), a Victron Battery Sense ($40), and an AiLi battery monitor ($44).  I have this all mounted in the front tub in an insulated box that I built. 

The Battery Sense networks with the on-board Victron solar charge controller and I have it set to prevent charging below 32F. I use the battery monitor to keep an eye on things. I use this information to decide when or if to deploy our Renogy 100w solar suitcase. 

This setup works very well for us. I’m also kind of cheap. Everyone has different needs and budgets.  And some, including me, just like to fiddle with stuff and put our own spin on things. Decide what works for you and go with it!

Thanks Wayne for your comments! I actually did just read a review on those Ampere Time batteries. It appears they are the same as the Chin batteries. Both are good batteries and just lack a few features. But at that price, quite a deal. Currently, I am leaning toward the SOK batteries. They now have a bluetooth monitoring and internal heated version that doesn't cost significantly more. I suppose I am willing to pay more for the convenience of not having to concern myself about how the battery is functioning in differing conditions. So, in my case, I'm lazy and just want to camp and enjoy myself! 

pthomas745

@WayneW thanks for helping me to just admit the reason I bought a lithium battery (the Ampere Time) was just because I wanted something to play with!