Maiden voyage under our belts, but questions...

Jay_and_Kat

First, the important bits up front:

• 2022 nuCamp T@B 400 Boondock
• It's our first camper / RV
• It was winterized when we picked it up from the dealer in March (it's new)
• We had the Nautilus set for "City water" during this process

So, we "driveway camped" at a friends house last night, and took advantage of their hose to start flushing our camper for our big trip in July. Which is where some of our questions / issues came up...

First, despite running a LOT of water through it, the kitchen sink would always give "foamy" water when first turned on, but no "pink" antifreeze. When we first turned on the water, it was pink, which was expected. But what's with the foam?

Second, if you don't have the Alde turned on to provide heat / hot water, will water still run through the hot lines so you can flush them?  Looking through the plumbing resources here, it looks like I should've turned the red handle to bypass the hot water tank.

So, we did have one issue and hopefully we can get it resolved before our upcoming July 4 trip.  When we picked up the camper, the hot water braided hose to the kitchen sink was twisted.  The walk-through tech fixed it (presumably removed it, untwisted it, re-attached)  Well, it leaks.  Not bad, but enough we had to take a towel to under the sink.  I think it did this because the braided hose from the faucet to the Pex line still has a "crimp" in it (like you get when you "crimp" a garden hose to stop the water) and it's bumping up the pressure and coming through the fitting.  We're going to call our dealer about it tomorrow, and with my work schedule I can get it over to them soon.

Other than that, everything went well (hey, we were in a friends driveway!)

Denny16

If the Red Alde Bypass valve is set to vertical, the Alde hot water is bypassed and cold water will flow through all the water lines, including hot water lines, when connected to City Water connection, and the other valves are set to City Water.  You may need to let the water run a bit to completely clear the lines, from the Galle sink, and do the same for the shower, washroom sink, then toilet (push down flushing lever and let water run until clear), and outside shower, to clear all water lines.

Next I would turn the Red Alde bypass valve to horizontal position, agin whi.st connected to City Water, fill the hot water and Flo tanks, leaving the hot water tap,in the galley about 1/4 way on, to get water flowing through these tanks, and make sure they didn’t get any antifreeze in them.  Run water until all is clear.  

Next, Power fill the water tank about 1/2 way full, open the water tank drain valve under the trailer and let it drain into a bucket, repeat until all the antifreeze is flushed out of the water tank.
 Cheers 

MuttonChops

Jay_and_Kat said:
. . . kitchen sink would always give "foamy" water when first turned on,
     but no "pink" antifreeze.
. . . don't have the Alde turned on to provide heat / hot water, will water still run through the
     hot lines so you can flush them? 

Kitchen Sink . . . foam or aerated water?
    Are you sure the faucet aerator is not just being super active?

Hot Water Pipes (lines)
If the Nautilus Levers are set for 'City Water , Winter Mode' {the Alde in by-pass} your hot water pipes will be flushed with new/clean/cold water.  If the Nautilus Levers are set for 'City Water' normal mode the hot water pipes and the Alde tank will be flushed with new/clean/cold water.

Side Note:  If the trailer was correctly winterized.
                 The Adle tank would be empty - no pink antifreeze - as Alde guidelines are to not put
                 the anti-freeze solution into the Alde.

If you would like additional information on the Nautilus settings including graphics showing how the water is flowing take a look at the forum resources section - -

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7856/plumbing-resources#latest

Jay_and_Kat

@MuttonChops - I'm pretty sure the aerator wasn't having a party, as after a minute the water would flow less "bubbly."  Additionally, the "foam" as I'm calling it, would hang around longer than bubbles in aerated water would (or at least, based on my kitchen sink.)  I'm wondering if, despite running for a while, there might still be some antifreeze in the line somewhere.

We're going to bring the camper out to the house (obviously) before our July trip, I plan to re-flush the lines then.  Plus, I'm pretty sure we've got better water pressure than our friend does, so even with the pressure regulator on the line, we might get a bit more "push."  (And we did have the regulator on our friends' hose as well, I do NOT want to blow out my water lines!)

Denny16

Jay, Did you flush the washroom and shower lines also?

Cheers 

MuttonChops

Doing a longer 'flush' sounds like a good next step and is what I would do as well.

My experience with RV Water System Antifreeze in two boats and the T@B 320S is that 'it' does not cause that much foaming - - - while even in very low concentrations 'it' does effect taste and under the right lighting color.

P.S.  As @Denny16 noted you must also flush the shower(s) and toilet to get all the anti-freeze out of the system.

[Deleted User]

The dealers often run antifreeze through the Alde (even though they know they aren't supposed to)  because they use a power machine to winterize all the brands hey sell and they do the same thing on every unit.   Alde says it's ok to have antifreeze in it but to not use it if it has antifreeze in it until you can flush it in the spring. 

Jay_and_Kat

@Denny16 I did run the shower, bath sink, and flush the toilet, none of those show pink or the foaming action.  I could've swore, too, that someone else on here had the foaming issue, I tried a search but so much comes up about "memory foam" to make it hard to filter down...
(OK, and yes, I was hoping my comment would jog someones' memory and they'd recall the topic and point me to it!)

pthomas745

@Jay_and_Kat This one?

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11469/hot-water-fresh-water

Jay_and_Kat

@pthomas745 if it wasn't that one, that one's darn close!  So it's sounding like we've still got some antifreeze in the lines yet to clear out (not terribly surprised,) so definitely want to get the camper out to the house so we can flush the lines.

The trick now being, flushing the hot water side, when we've got a leaking connection under the kitchen sink.  Probably put a bucket under there (it's a slow drip when there's water coming through) and use my hands to keep the hose open so the water flows (already scheduled a drop-off at the dealer to get it fixed.)

Denny16

That leak under the galley sink may be the cause of your issue, allowing air into the water lines and causing some of the foaming you are seeing.  Try drawing a bit of this foamy water into a glass jar and let it sit, and see what happens.  Meanwhile try to get the leak fixed, so you can finish flushing out the water lines going to the galley.  This set of pipes, has to go from the rear Alde compartment across the width of the TaB (under the rear bunk in that thick divider in the front of the under bunk storage area) then down the passenger side to the galley. 

This is about a 14-16 foot run of pipes, with two or more 90-degree elbows (which restrict water flow a little) to get to the sink from the Nautilus connection point, which adds some additional  pipe fittings for the water to negotiate.  Takes a few minutes for water to get from the Nautilus panel connections to the sink. 

Cheers 

Jay_and_Kat

@Denny16 we've already made arrangements to take the camper to our dealer, but because they couldn't promise having it ready before our trip for July 4th (and we have been looking forward to this trip!) we opted to push taking it to them until after, on our way home.

What we're planning to do, and maybe you can comment on if it's safe(ish) or not, is still fill the fresh tank, so we can use the bath, and just not use the kitchen sink at all.  I'll still work to flush the kitchen lines, and might even go further to avoid leaking by capping the end of the water line that's the problem.

Thankfully, the leak is a slow drip from where the braided steel line from the faucet connects to the fitting on the end of the pex water line from the hot water tank, so I should be able to get a cap at a hardware store.  And, by disconnecting the braided line, I can flush that line (into a bucket) as well.

Or at least, that's my thinking...

Denny16

I would try disconnecting the braided line check the washer/seal in it to be sure there isn’t any debris in it, and reconnect the two lines back together with a hand tighten the fitting back up.  This should stop the leak.  The braided hose is a water stop service line and you can get them at any plumbing supply, home improvement stores (Home Depot, etc).  This way you can get going and enjoy your July 4 trip.  Have fun and stay safe.
 Cheers 

Jay_and_Kat

I was looking to replace the line myself, but it looks like it's using a crimp fitting to the faucet, rather than a regular screw fitting (such as on the supply side)

What I think is partially responsible for the leak, is there's kink in the braided line from when it was severely twisted (when we picked it up.)  Lets see if I can attach the picture of the kink (OK, it's the circled bit)  I've tried (by hand) unkinking it, but as soon as I let go, it kinks again.  My thinking is, the kink increases the water pressure going to the faucet hot side, so when the water's on, the pressure needs to release and is able to work through between the threads and out (or maybe out the "top" of the braided line fitting, where it allows the nut to turn)

Maple_Geek

I'm no plumber but that kink doesn't look normal. I would follow up with your dealer for a warranty claim unless you can't wait and can replace that line yourself. Even then, I would reach out to Nucamp to pay for the new part under warranty.

Jay_and_Kat

@Maple_Geek we've already called our dealer and will be dropping the camper off on our way home from our trip (they couldn't promise getting it back to us quick enough if we dropped it off before the trip.)  The hose in the picture, when we got our walk-through, was severely twisted, the guy doing the walk through said they'd get it un-twisted before we left (they did,) but it must've kept that kink in it.

Worst case if we can't cap the end of the line off to prevent a leak, we don't use the camper plumbing on our trip, the campground has facilities we can use.

Denny16

Meantime, you could disconnect the hot water graded line, and cap the brass connection.  This will stop the leak, and allow you to use hot water in the washroom for your upcoming trip.  The kink is also probably responsible for the foaming, as the antifreeze can’t flush completely out.  Your original though to use a pail to flush the line would help before caping it off.
 Cheers 

Jay_and_Kat

@Denny16 just got done talking to the service manager at our dealer about doing that!  Wanted to be absolutely sure it would potentially cause a problem.  Next stop, the hardware store!

And, I'll take advantage of having the faucet disconnected initially, with a 5-gal bucket underneath (or a 1-gal, if the 5 doesn't fit) to flush that line out.

rcmasse

Is it possible to have a short 1-2'  temporary hose fitting made up to lengthen the run which might to allow you to increase the curve radius to eliminate the kink into the faucet connection?

Denny16

I think I’d the Pes pipe is shortened that would eliminate the kink.
 Cheers 

gulfarea

Put a 45 degree fitting on the end would help some Art

Jay_and_Kat

Other than capping it off to prevent leaks for our trip, I'm going to let the dealer handle it.  What I'd be concerned about is the kinked sections potentially "blowing out" (or at least leaking badly) in the middle of a trip.  My suspicion is, they're going to do a two-step fix, shorten the pex line an inch or two, and replace the braided line (possibly, because it's crimped onto the faucet, the entire faucet fixture.)

bergger

From the photo of your water lines I can't see the entire setup but it looks different and not as clean and the plumbing lines in our 2021 400.  We have zero crimping in the way our lines are run.  Here are some photos that show how it is installed.  Each line has a flexible line coming from the supply pex lines to the faucet.  They are attached to the faucet by means of a small pex fitting directly at the bottom of the faucet.  They are at a 45 degree angle, as @gulfarea recommended, that prevents kinking of the lines.  There are no brass connections, pipe tape/dope used.  The sloppy plumbing may be the result of supply chain issues??