Alde Safety/drain valve Questions

B11

2022 Tab 400bd
Looking for clarification regarding fully draining the Alde hot water system between uses.

After much research on this and other forums as well as reading the Alde Compact 3020 manual, I'm still a bit confused as to whether or not I have fully drained the hot water system.

After our last trip, I drained all tanks using the Low Level Drains located on the driver-side rear of our Tab 400bd(pump off, all water taps open). *See bottom photo of Low Level Drains below.

As a step of the draining process, the Alde 3020 manual states: "Open the safety/drain valve by turning the lever"[yellow lever]. Open is in the up position.

I did not do that step yet hot water exited the Low Level drain when I opened the valve on the outside drain.(Not the yellow lever on the inside.)

1. I'm wondering if I need to still open the yellow Safety/drain lever located inside the camper under the driver-side bed(see photo below) to fully drain all the hot water?

2. If so, which yellow lever should be opened? I'm assuming it's the yellow lever associated with the red (hot water) PEX pipe?

3. Also, what is the purpose of the yellow lever associated with the blue (cold water) PEX pipe?

4. The Alde 3020 manual also states to leave the valve in the open position(up) until the next time the boiler is used. Is this necessary?

Thanks in advance.
Brian

Sharon_is_SAM

 I'm still a bit confused as to whether or not I have fully drained the hot water system.

After our last trip, I drained all tanks using the Low Level Drains located on the driver-side rear of our Tab 400bd(pump off, all water taps open). *See bottom photo of Low Level Drains below.

As a step of the draining process, the Alde 3020 manual states: "Open the safety/drain valve by turning the lever"[yellow lever]. Open is in the up position.

I did not do that step yet hot water exited the Low Level drain when I opened the valve on the outside drain.(Not the yellow lever on the inside.)

1. I'm wondering if I need to still open the yellow Safety/drain lever located inside the camper under the driver-side bed(see photo below) to fully drain all the hot water?

2. If so, which yellow lever should be opened? I'm assuming it's the yellow lever associated with the red (hot water) PEX pipe?

3. Also, what is the purpose of the yellow lever associated with the blue (cold water) PEX pipe?

4. The Alde 3020 manual also states to leave the valve in the open position(up) until the next time the boiler is used. Is this necessary?

Brian -

The yellow valve on the blue, cold line is the Safety/Drain valve for the Alde Flow water tank.  The yellow valve on the red, hot line is the Safety/Drain valve on the main Alde water tank.  Open both of the drains to empty the tanks after the system has cooled.  We did find that opening the low point drains will also allow for draining, but to be sure you have optimized emptying, I would start with the safety/drain valves, then open the low point drains for the remainder of the plumbing.

TaB owners without the Flow can just use the low point drain as the Alde is filled directly from a cold line, not via a connection with another tank.

B11

@Sharon_is_SAM..Thanks for the clarification re the valves, levers and procedures. The side view photo is quite helpful. That photo is a much cleaner look than the spaghetti conglomerate plumbing inside our 400bd. Lots to pack in a small space.

BrianZ

Thanks, @B11 and @Sharon_is_SAM for reminding me that we forgot to open the yellow Alde low point drain valve after our last trip.  We seem to have the hardest time remembering to do that!  Usually, we are so busy packing up at the campsite and then unpacking when we get home that we more often than not forget to drain the Alde water.  Anyone else have this problem, or better yet a solution? 
Maybe we should make it part of our packup routine at the campsite & leave those three floor drains open for the ride home, like we would do if using the fresh water tank.
We know what needs to be done, but we often forget that one.

Sharon_is_SAM

@BrianZ - It wouldn’t hurt to empty your lines on departure.  I am in the habit of going tongue up to expedite draining the system, so even though we now know that the low point drain will empty the Alde water tank, I start with draining the tank via the yellow flapper.  Just makes me feel like I have done everything possible to prevent retained water.  Typically done on arrival home.  

Sharon_is_SAM

One other observation about draining the Alde when you have the Flow:  although the valve on the blue line will drain the Flow via gravity, you can’t rely on that to drain the Alde - you must use the valve on the red line for the Alde.  

marleecamps

So, I am a little confused.  In a recent thread on this topic, I thought I learned that it was not necessary to open the yellow drain valve in order to empty the Alde water tank, that using the exterior low point drain was sufficient to empty the tank between trips.  And I have been very happy to be able to avoid having to access the Alde compartment via partially disassembling my bed.

This discussion seems to contradict that approach.  Maybe I am not reading this correctly.

Sharon_is_SAM

@marleecamps -
The discussion you are referencing was about a 320 model that does not have a Flow.  
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11952/alde-3020-tank-draining/p1

None of the Alde instructions recommend using a low point drain to empty the Alde tank(s).  I think someone without a Flow can get away with that, but you can see from the photo that although the Alde Flow can drain out through the cold water line, once the water in the Flow drops down below the red Alde tank fill line, the water in the main Alde tank looks like it requires use of the Safety/drain valve.  I could be wrong, but in this case, I’d rather be safe.  

Even the nuCamp manual refers to using the valve “ With the Alde® flow equipped there is an extra safety relief valve that needs to be drained when winterizing the plumbing system.”  No mention of using the low point drain.

https://youtu.be/dqeXO-SHRcU

marleecamps

Thanks, Sharon.  The manual does say to use the yellow valve, and that is the procedure I followed until recently.  Just for kicks, I will open the yellow valve next time I run out to my camper and see how much water comes out after I had emptied it Friday using the low point drain.  I just wish that valve was easier to access.  I leave the screws out from that compartment, but it's still a hassle to flip that cushion out of the way with a pillowtop mattress in place.

Sharon_is_SAM

That would be a good test to see if the main tank empties @marleecamps.  Let us know!
I think the pre 2021 400 models had an outside access door that had the 2 yellow flaps within easy reach.  They used that place for the Nautilus.  

B11

@Sharon_is_SAM et all,
Follow Up-

I accessed the two yellow safety/drain valves via removing the cushions and the support plywood for the bed. I opened the outside drain valves for all three drains just for kicks. A small amt of water came out of the fresh water drain. 

I then opened the safety/drain valves inside our camper. Water came out both low point clear tube drains on the camper. These are separate exit points from the other 3 outside drains(fresh, hot and cold). The two clear tubes do not have valves to open or shut. They remain open at all times. 

All drain valves are shut and camper is clear of water. 👍🏽

marleecamps

And curiosity got the better of me, so I interrupted my all important Sunday eve happy hour to do my experiment.  To be clear, on Friday I opened both the hot and cold low point drains on the exterior Nautilus compartment and then closed them once no more water came out.

Today I first opened the cold water yellow valve (Flow system) and only a dribble came out.  Then, I opened the hot water yellow valve (Alde), and to my disappointment - and to confirm B11's findings, water started to drain onto the ground.  I did not measure it, but it probably drained for a good 5 minutes.  So, since my goal is to not have standing water in any of my tanks between trips, I will need to revert to the practice of sliding that bed cushion out of the way so I can lift that cover and flip the yellow valves open.

Now, back to Happy Hour.

Sharon_is_SAM

Thanks @marleecamps.  Good lesson for everyone.

ScottG

I think the confusion regarding Alde draining stems from Alde's instructions vs. nuCamp's. There is no contradiction, per se, but since Alde can't predict how individual installers will plumb the supply to the unit, they recommend draining via the yellow flapper valve which is part of the Alde package. In some cases--such as with my 320--an adjacent low point drain installed by nuCamp serves the same purpose.

bergger

We have a 2021 400 and recently I tried the low point drain method only and found out it drains the lines  but does not drain all the water out of the Alde.  To do so I also had to open the pressure relief/drain valves, yellow flapper valves, to get more water out of the Alde.  So as @ScottG said I suppose it just depends on how your trailer is plumbed.  Best to test your trailer and see what happens.  

pthomas745

Is there an actual "need" to completely drain the Alde between trips?  The fresh water I get, but.....

B11

@pthomas745..I have the same question. I guess if the non-use timeframe is fairly short and temperatures are not to be freezing, I would say no.

The Alde manual says it should be drained using the safety valve/drain after 10 days of non-use to maintain the air cushion (an air space) which they state is essential for absorbing pressure surges in the heating system. 

pthomas745

@B11

Check the manual again: the section about the air cushion says maintain the air cushion after 10 days of use, not "non-use."

And, then the "Notice" says to "drain the Alde Tank after 10 days of use".   (On the various Alde web sites and videos, this is described as "continuous" use.  There is no description of the need to do it if you are just "occasionally" using the Alde hot water.

Another confusing Alde enigma. 

B11

@pthomas745...Thanks for catching my error. Clearly, I need to read more carefully. Yes, after 10 days of use. That makes me even more perplexed. 

Sharon_is_SAM