T@B 400 2023 battery and inverter options

CindyLovesCamping

Hi T@B forum. I just ordered a 2023 T@b 400, for delivery next April (2023).

I thought there was an option to order upgraded lithium batteries and 3000 watt inverter ... however the dealer said no, they were only after market add- ons.

I have watched the Princess Craft and Mandy Lea walk through videos for the 2023 model and they both note the 4 pack lithium battery pCk and 3000 watt inverter ( which allows you to power all outlets without shore power plugged in) is an option. I bought in Canada so wondering if the upgraded battery pack and inverter are not available here ( though I can't think why not)?

I want to figure this out and let my dealer make updates to my order toute de suite. Does anyone have info or web links that will assist me?  

Thank you!!

pthomas745

There are several owners that have the trailers with the "new and improved" battery setup.  Skip the dealer and call NuCamp and ask specifically.  Some dealers...can say weird things.

PS: The inverter will only operate a couple of outlets, not "all" the outlets.

pthomas745

This is the thread that has the pictures.  This is a pretty complex setup...

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/16379/2023-400-with-the-400-ah-lithium-mod-victron-inverter#latest

RobynE

From what I've heard the lithium is the standard now. 

manyman297

Yeah, you should be able to get the 400ah of lithium and the multiplus inverter/generator upgrade. 

Denny16

Yes you can get, the 4ea 100AmpHr, lithium package as factory upgrade option (from one 100 amp.hr. lithium battery standard) and the 3K watt Victron inverter/charger, that powers all of the TaB400 outlets, from what our local dealer said.  Sounds like your dealer is either misinformed, or is trying to make additional $ on a dealer add on with after market stuff.  I would go back and tell the dealer exactly what you want, or cancel the order.  I would also inform nüCamp of this dealer’s tactic.  

Cheers 

richardspahn

CindyLovesCamping said:

Hi T@B forum. I just ordered a 2023 T@b 400, for delivery next April (2023).

I thought there was an option to order upgraded lithium batteries and 3000 watt inverter ... however the dealer said no, they were only after market add- ons.

I have watched the Princess Craft and Mandy Lea walk through videos for the 2023 model and they both note the 4 pack lithium battery pCk and 3000 watt inverter ( which allows you to power all outlets without shore power plugged in) is an option. I bought in Canada so wondering if the upgraded battery pack and inverter are not available here ( though I can't think why not)?

I want to figure this out and let my dealer make updates to my order toute de suite. Does anyone have info or web links that will assist me?  

Thank you!!

Cindy, Click here>  Best Texas Truck Camper and Light Weight Trailer Dealer | Princess Craft RV   in Round Rock, Texas delivers to anywhere in the USA  and Steve their Sales Manager told me Saturday they have delivered to the Canadian Border and after their discount off MSRP plus their delivery fee are less than other dealers including their freight. I just took delivery on a 23 Tab 400 Boondock with Victron 3000 and 4 100amp-hrs Battleborn batteries.  I ordered from San Diego and drove my F-150 Hybrid 1400 miles to Austin to Pick it up. I  also found Princess Craft's deposit a fraction of what a West Coast dealer was asking.  Call Steve tomorrow he'll be in and there Saturday too, I have bought from PJ for years and have always been pleased. I had an inspector and found nothing wrong and got a copy of the PDI they did as well. I couldn't be more pleased and as a Professional Engineer, I see that NuCamp has it all, Great Design, Materials, and Workmanship in one package. I'm sure all the outlets are powered by the Victron 3000 inverter as that's the way it is designed to work and will check mine tomorrow. Princess Craft is one of the top three dealers for NuCamp and I dealt with one of the others and they weren't even close.


 

klenger

Here's a copy of the 2023 TaB 400 order form which includes the full Lithium option.

CindyLovesCamping

Just heard back from my dealer, who now has all the correct information on the lithium upgrade package from nuCamp. Price fir the full upgrade is $7700.00. Quite odd that they did not have it from the start as it is clearly shown on the 2023 model year order form.

I also reached out to nuCamp and received the same information. They sent me the order form with the details included.

Now just to decide whether to go for it or no... any advice? Seems like an excellent idea to have the four batteries and upgraded inverter, as well as trailer fully wired to support it. I am not mechanical so no chance I will be attempting this on my own...

Denny16

This option works for anyone who plans to camp mostly off grid (no electrical hookups) or Boondock (no facilities) and wants to run electrical appliances like a microwave oven, an induction cook top, or occasional short term use of the CoolCat AC.  Here the 3 K inverter package with 400 amp.hr.s of battery makes sense, and is worth the package deal, as buying these components individually and installing them later would cost more, plus the labor. 

If you only occasionally Boondock, and are only using a microwave or a single induction cooktop (these things will boil a teapot of water in half the time the gas stove takes), then getting the single Lithium battery setup, and adding a second Battleborn battery ($900) and upgrade the 1800-watt inverter to a Victron Energy MiltiPlus inverter ($1026), is a lot less expensive, and still gives added capacity for short Boondock trips of less than a week.   This is the route I plan to take, when we upgrade our AGM battery to Lithium.  TaB400 roof solar will help charge a 200-amp.hr. Lithium battery setup. 

Which option you take depends completely on where and how you want to camp, and what electrical devices you need to use.  Our original TaB400 with 200 amp.hr of AGM batteries, kept charged by the 193-watt roof top solar, is good for a week of Boondock camping, using the battery power for the fridge, Alde, and lights.  Cooking is done on the propane stove, no microwave or induction cooktop.
 Cheers 

manyman297

While this package looks interesting to somebody like me who mostly camps off grid, I don’t think we camp enough to justify the cost…BUT if you do plan on using the camper extensively then I’d say go for it. There are plenty of times I wish I could run the AC without hauling out the generator and making noise. My guess is you’d recoup most of the investment when you sell the camper but you’d have to find the buyer that is seeking those specific off grid features as the vast majority of RV’ers probably wouldn’t need it. 

Dutch061

If you have the ability, you can do it yourself for a lot less money. I know the OP mentioned they don't have the skills., but it appears the markup on this over the cost of the parts is around $3K. That seems a bit excessive to me, but again I am able to do it myself.

Brad

Denny16

I just looked up the BattleBorn 4@100 amp towable battery package with the Victron 3K inverter/charger.  This package includes more than just the batteries and inverter, it also includes the Smart Shunt, Solar Controller, VE Buss Smart Dongle, battery management setup and fuse kit.  The Battleborn sale price for this package is $5,900 (list $6,300).  

Brad, I do not know where you came up with $3K in parts cost, the 3K inverter is $1500, the four batteries $3,600, so without the other bits you are at more than $5K, plus $1200+ for the other parts.  So the package option from nüCamp, installed is $7K, seems reasonable to me.
 Cheers 

Dutch061

@Denny16, please look closer at my reply. I didn't say $3K in parts cost, I said " it appears the markup on this over the cost of the parts is around $3K". Which means I put the Multi and 4 batteries at around $4700, since the package price someone mentioned was $7700.   

Unfortunately, being the owner of 4 x Battleborn batteries, I am well versed in the pricing. I didn't look at the price sheet to see what other things they may be putting in with "the package", as I am not in need of any of it.

All I can say is that those who boondock that haven't had lithium are completely unaware of the massive power capacities and benefits. For those who spend time with shore power, it is a waste of money. Use the money to camp and travel instead.

***Edit Just looked at the price sheet, it is listed for $7995 and includes the following items:

400-Amp Hrs of Lithium w/Internal Heat
Bluetooth® Connected SmartShunt
3000-Watt Inverter/Charger

Heated batteries are not needed on a 400 due to the install under the bed. The only possible exception would be if you were going to try and spend the winter in Alaska, and good luck with that. There isn't any mention of the other things you said, and the Bluetooth Smart Shunt is not the BMV-712. So, based on this "bill of materials", I still feel that it is overpriced for what is delivered.

Again, since I am quite capable of doing this myself (while others may not be) is why I am adamant that it is overpriced.

Brad

Denny16

@Dutch061, yes doing the upgrade yourself today less expensive, you save the labor and factory markup.  

Sorry Brad, my original response was I didn’t think nüCamp’s markup was $3K, I know the package costs more than $3K.  I looked up the prices, based on the package, and came up with this:
4@ 100 amp batteries $3,600
1@ 3K Victron inverter $1,500
1@ Victron Battery monitor $200
Total cost $5,300 for the three parts. 

Plus you need the Inverter fuse kit $100
misc install guts, wires etc $100
Brings total to $5,500 
So nüCamp markup, which includes installation, is $2,695 so you weren’t too far off.  I thought the bundle included all the bits Battleborn offered on this package, which totals almost $6K:
https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/battle-born-energy-towable-30a-kit/

Cheers

Dutch061

@Denny16, 

No worries! Have a great day!

Going to miss this forum, that I am certain of.

Brad

dsfdogs

@CindyLovesCamping The prices on the price list are MSRP, but you can negotiate these days. The dealer added on $1000 for PDI plus $3800 for freight. Sales guy even said they don't charge us PDI,  but they add it to order form to make the discount they give look more impressive! My order form from June listed the lithium package at $7995, but I wouldn't have paid that much. (I did not order it as I'm usually hooked up). Good luck!

klenger

Keep in mind that if you order the full Lithium package for $8000, and negotiate a 20% discount off the total trailer price, then you are really only paying $6400 for the package.  Also don't overlook the somewhat high cost of buying heavy gauge battery wiring if you DIY.  I've done a couple of these and you can quickly spend $200 - $300 (or more) in battery cables, fuses, etc. and properly fabricating these cables is beyond the reach of most skilled DIYers.   There is also some re-wiring of the 120 VAC 30 Amp power circuit to the 3K inverter / charger.

schwartzki

Does anyone have what is needed to modify the 120v AC power circuit when swapping to a 3000w inverter? Seen a couple people do it but not sure if any documentation.

Be nice if I could order just the parts to convert the center storage to the new design for 4 BB batteries.

Denny16

How you install the inverter depends on the type of inverter, and if it is an inverter/charger, or just an inverter, and if it has its own transfer switch (most 3K units do).  Next are you wanting to power all the TaB outlets from the inverter. 

If the answer is yes to the transfer switch and powering all the outlets, you disconnect the incoming AC cable from the trailer’s converter and connect it to the inverter, then you run the AC output cable from the inverter back to the WFCO converter. 

 

This way, when you are on shore power, the inverter switches (transfers) the incoming AC from shore power to the trailer’s converter.  When you disconnect shore power, the inverter will power the WFCO converter AC outlets and converter off the batteries.  Another option to keep the inverter from powering the DC part of the converter, is to add a 30 amp circuit breaker to the WFCO, and leave the WFCO directly connected to AC shore power, the run the AC output of the inverter to the new 30 amp breaker, and turn this new breaker off when you are on shore power, then turn it on when running off batteries.  This breaker will take the AC out of the inverter and distribute it tothe AC outlets/circuits on the AC breaker buss.
 Cheers 

schwartzki

Thanks for the feedback. I would be getting going with a 3000w Victron inverter/charger same as nucamp is using. I would run all AC from inverter then disable WFCO converter on the DC side and let the Victron handle charging. From research there are a couple ways to accomplish that but wondered what people had done in the 400's or the factory had done for the 2023's.

Denny16

The 3K inverter is not going to power the trailer’s 12 VDC circuits, so you might want to leave the Converter 12VDC fuse circuits active, and just not use the return wire to the battery bank ( used to charge the battery.  Use the 3K inverter to feed the 120VAC fuse buss circuits from the 40 amp circuit breaker, the external shore power cable is connected to, and connect the shore power cable to,the Victron inverter/charger.  I believe this is how nüCamp has wired this up.  Someone with a new 2023 with the 400 amp.hr, setup will need to confirm this.
 Cheers 

elbolillo

I am soon to take delivery of a 2023 Tab 400 with just a single 100ah BB and am going to upgrade it to the 4x100ah setup similar to NuCamp's lithium package. It looks difficult to determine from the photos, but would you say that the battery and inverter connect wires are 1/0 AWG? Also, what size fuse is being used?

Denny16

Why not start with smaller steps.  Keep your existing inverter and just add one additional BB 100-amp lithium battery, which will give you 200 amp.hrs total.  The AWG no 2 cable/wire is rated for a max of 120-amps with runs up to 25/16 feet with 3% voltage loss, so would work,to connect the second battery, as the AIMS 1200-watt inverter only draws around 100 amps at startup with a typical load.  For additional safety and capacity, a 1/0:cable would be fine.  

After you have done some camping with the TaB and 200 amps of battery, you can see what additional power and/or inverter requirements you will need.  Tom many new TaB owners run out and buy all,sorts of things they think they will need, and end up only really using about half the stuff the get.  Start small, and see how it goes.
 Cheers 

manyman297

I’d have to agree with @Denny16 Depending on how you camp, you might find that you don’t even burn through the 100ah battery. If you’re a first time RV’er (and you very well may not be) I’d take a few trips and see what does and doesn’t work and adjust accordingly. When we first got our 400 I almost went out and dropped a couple hundred on a solar suitcase. Fast forward almost two years and I’m glad we didn’t buy it as we haven’t had the need for it (yet). 

dsfdogs

EDIT: it appears after watching this video from BB, and noticing the heated batteries have a nub on top where the cable attaches, which the regular batteries do not, that my "solution" to adding a second battery is incorrect. Unfortunately, it appears there was miscommunication with BB.

Original post: I just received a regular Battle Born battery to be added to the heated one in my 400. I had called them to ask about buying the heated "jumper cable" package they include when ordering more than one heated battery. They don't sell it so they included it free with my battery! (I told them I already had the one standard heated battery in the '23 400). 

KK1L

 @dsfdogs so call me confused. Why a heated jumper cable with a non-heated battery? 

dsfdogs

@KK1L hmmm...I "thought" it was the cable that heated the battery, but I just watched one of their videos about the heated battery and notice they have a nub on top the regular battery does not. Ugh. 

I reached out to the company (AM Solar in Springfield OR) that is doing my install and they said: "We too inquired with Battle Born, and they said mixing heated vs. non-heated batteries is ok. The potential for having balancing issues exists...(if trying to charge in freezing temps)...which would result in extended charge durations toward the top-end charge of the battery system, but it won't be harmful to the batteries."

I will probably choose not to charge if in freezing temps. 

Thanks for asking me the question @KK1L