T@b 400 vs. Alto safari

CloudedLeopard12

Hoping at least a few of you have gone down this rabbit hole. We had a chance to go in all three models yesterday. We really liked the 21-foot.

They are extremely light weight, similar layout and design when it comes to the solar, bathroom, kitchen and windows. Both seem to hold their value well, but please add some more pros and cons if I am missing anything. 

Alto pro:
Lightweight

Better sleeping options for 4
2nd dinette area
Traditional awning fits

Tab 400 pros:
Alde heating (seems pretty amazing)
More off road cable

Better insulation? 
Liked the finish out a bit more
Better refrigerator
Lagoon table 
Lower price 

MuttonChops

400 also has fewer (as in no) moving parts in the roof/sides to fail.

VictoriaP

The lack of a traditional awning is one of my biggest regrets/frustrations in going with a Tab. For what that’s worth.

Binghi

Alde heat is the tiebreaker.

manyman297

I’ve never been in the Alto but the windows are a pro and con to me. I love the amount of light available but when it comes time to have privacy the window coverings might become a pain. And as @MuttonChops mentioned, no moving parts on the 400.

A plus is storage. It can fit in a garage…and it might arguably be built better but that’s just what I’ve heard.

rfuss928

The Alto F series (F1734) is very comparable to the T@B 400 living space.  No moving roof and lighter weight than the R series.  Possibly a better comparison.

CloudedLeopard12

@manyman297

So actually, they have the same privacy blinds with the bug screens as the tabs in the F series Alto's.

We didn't get in the R series (the one with the collapsible roof). Mostly because, as people have pointed out,.the potential for moving parts to break, and reviews that the windows make it heat up like a greenhouse. Also, only half bathroom walls, due to the roof situation. 

CloudedLeopard12

@rfuss928

We did look at the F1734. That model seems be an exact comparison.... We have to say, the tab feels nicer. We can't tell if the aluminium interior makes it feel less inviting? They are almost identical (I think tab even copied their bathroom in the new 2023). 

They are lighter weight, and the traditional awning is nice. Cons, 15k more expensive on the alto. 

The salesman, who was also the owner, does RV rental and he said over the years he stopped renting anything but Alto's because they a so "bomb proof". He travelled to Canada to meet the company and was really impressed with how their plans are built with 1/16" allowances and he was showing how easy they are to work on because you can get to all the components so easily. It was at the very least.... A good sales pitch. 

CloudedLeopard12

Alto f1742- 1742 lbs. dry - 17 feet. 15.8 gal. Water, 15.8 gray, 10.5 black (converted from liters to gallons, thanks @Bufford )


Tab 400 - 2840 lbs dry. - 22 water, 18 gray, 12 black

How long are y'all staying out with your tank capacity?

bergger

I have not had the opportunity yet to see a Safari Condo in person yet but they certainly interest me and hope to see one some day.  It is probably one of the very very few trailers I would ever consider over the 400.  The construction appears on par with the NuCamp products.  Also it is my understanding that the roof and wall construction is a honey comb composite material.  If that is the case I would say the insulation in the Safari would be much better than the T@b.  I have a truck topper that is made of 1" thick honey comb composite with the interior covered in carpet and the exterior covered in .090 aluminum.  I can tell you the insulative properties of my topper are way better than our 400.  I also have a Truma Vario heater in it.  I believe the Safari uses the Truma combi unit.  I love both the Alde and the Truma products.  Both are of high quality and both have their benefits.  The Alde is quieter, but the Truma is very, very quiet for a forced air system.  The Truma heats the space much much quicker.  You can't go wrong with either unit.  

CloudedLeopard12

@bergger really helpful!

They are made in Canada, so you would think do well in cold. Salesman said he hears more about them getting hot rather than cold, in his experience. 

manyman297

@CloudedLeopard12

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the R series Altos. 

Wow, those tank capacities on the Alto are incredible. We mostly dry camp (three of us) and we maybe can last three days until either the gray is full or we run out of water. We do a fair amount of dishes though.

@bergger

I agree that the Truma is a great system. I almost prefer it over the Alde due to less maintenance. It’s incredibly quiet for forced air too.

bergger

Having both systems if I had to choose between the Alde and the Truma I would take the Truma for two reasons.  Less maintenance as @manyman297 mentioned and it heats the trailer up much faster.  Being in such a cold climate as we are that would be nice.  As far as getting hot the honey comb composite on my topper camper does a great job keeping the inside cool.  The exterior aluminum will get hot but it is amazing how little heat transfers to the interior.  

VictoriaP

Agree with @bergger on the Truma, and if the Alto’s tanks are truly that large, that would catapult it way ahead of the 400 for me solo, let alone as an RV built to sleep 4.

Edit to add: with the conversion from liters, tank size isn’t an Alto advantage, unfortunately. Both trailers have pretty skimpy tank sizes for a couple, IMO.

sequimite

We looked at an Alto about 4 years ago. Both of us thought that the interior finish did not match the exterior and was a lower grade than the T@B 320. Kind of plasticy. We have no experience with the 400. The big draw for us was weight. We could have towed it with our TV.

Bufford

tank capacities listed for Alto should be in liters not gallons.

CloudedLeopard12

@Bufford

Amazing point... I will update the above!

bubbazanetti

The Alto has a reputation, on line … for being hot in warm weather. Also for cheap carpentry in the seat area and failing seats. 

Looked at one a year ago. Cool design. But ….

CharlieRN

For anyone wanting to see any of the Safari Condo campers in person, the company suggests posting a request on their FB site. Owners are incentivized to provide tours of their campers to those who are local by Safari Condo via a credit for merchandise. I do not have any form of social media account, so can't vouch for how this works, but it was suggested by Safari Condo when I asked about being able to see their A2124 camper without driving to their factory in Quebec.

Maple_Geek

I looked at the Safari Condo F1743 and in the end I decided to go with Nucamp. Mind you I was never in the market for a T@B400, mostly due to the weight but all we really need is in the 320S anyway.

While I do like the Safari Condo products, I found that the interior looks/feels cheap and definitely not to the same quality level as Nucamp. That's the tradoff you're making for weight for the most part. Real wood/plywood cabinetery do weight more but should stand the test of time better IMO.

manyman297

Price wise the f1743 is about $35k USD which puts it right under the 400 in terms of street price. I’m not entirely sure what comes with that price as their pricing/feature matrix on their brochure is really confusing.

But now that we have a handle on tank sizes that would be a deal breaker for me. The 400’s tanks are borderline too small for me.

@Maple_Geek I figured that’s how they save on weight. Good to hear a firsthand experience with them. 

CloudedLeopard12

They use aluminium framing on everything, so it doesn't have the same look as a quality cabinet. I do think they use durable materials, but everything gets chosen for weight. Everything feels really sturdy. But in my original post I said we preferred the nucamp finish out, hands down. 

bergger

That's what we love so much about the 400 and why, no matter how many trailers we look at, we always come to the conclusion that we got the trailer that is the best for us. There is nothing out there that has the same aesthetics and cozy warm feeling as the interior of the 400.  The interior is just something special. 

CloudedLeopard12

Another difference: all the fixed roof models have 3 windows in the sleeping area. Great for light and views, but not great for insulation/ cold seepage.

What's the condensation like in the tab's on cold nights? 

manyman297

We’ve camped in the mid 30s and have never had a condensation issue with three people sleeping. We do crack the roof vent. 

Denny16

CloudedLeopard12 said:

They use aluminium framing on everything, so it doesn't have the same look as a quality cabinet. I do think they use durable materials, but everything gets chosen for weight. Everything feels really sturdy. But in my original post I said we preferred the nucamp finish out, hands down. 

We also prefer the nüCamp interior design of the TsB400 and use of quality materials to give it a very finished look. We looked At the Alto trailers, like the retractable model, but not the interior look so much.  We also looked at the Taxa Outdoor trailers, the Ceicket snd Mantis, both are nice, but the inside look is more utilitarian and not that finished.  The TaB400 was a perfect fit size wise and with a better comfortable interior.  Both use Baltic Birch, but nüCamp’s TaBs are more finished looking.
 Cheers 

manyman297

It seems that in the past couple of years the use of Baltic Birch in the interior has been less and less. 

Our 2021 had some issues with the finish peeling on the curved sink doors. They sent out replacements last year and they weren’t Baltic Birch plywood…it was some cheap 5-ply plywood that eventually started to split and crack over the course of a few weeks. 

I ultimately swapped the old doors back in and will eventually just refinish them at some point but those original doors were Baltic Birch plywood and are superior in quality vs. whatever they use now. 

The original 2018 400s used a lot of Baltic Birch Plywood but with the cost of it going nuts over the past couple of years I see why Nucamp has elected to use less of it. But whatever they’re using for those doors is not nearly as good. 

Kevin_K

When originally looking for a camper, my wife really liked the looks of the Alto Safari and it's features, however, I had to remind her of the important things to consider:

1. lack of privacy when going to the bathroom (needing to put a curtain up all the time). Odor control.

2. NOT a boondock model and would primarily have to stay on paved roads. (take off angle also not conducive to our 'steep' driveway).

3. When camping, we like to live out of the camper, not in it, so having all that 'window' area in the Alto didn't seem practical.

Overall, we have been very happy with our Tab400 and have been able to take it to places we could never take the Alto.

bergger

We have been very happy with our 2021 400 over the past 2 years 8 months and are glad with our decision.  No matter what else we look at we always have our decision to go with the 400 validated in our minds. 

However, @Kevin_K Safari Condo does have several hard sided non-popup trailers that take care of the issues you mentioned, privacy in the bathroom, fewer windows (acrylic like the T@b), and axles that have height adjustable suspensions.  But even with these features I still like the 400 better! 

XenanMe

I love my 400 but am seriously considering putting a deposit down on an Alto 1743.  It is so much lighter meaning I would be able to get a smaller tow vehicle - maybe even an EV.  I see more and more Altos on the road and love the look of them.  Because the waiting list is 2 years (2025 if I order now) I can enjoy my 400 for a couple of years still.

Denny16

@manyman297, during the last two years, not only has the price of Baltic Birch gone up, it’s availability has become harder to source.  Part of this is the Covid issue, but also the recent issues with Russia, one of the larger suppliers of Baltic Birch.  I think nüCamp’s choice of plywood use has more to do with the lack of availability of the Baltic Birch, than to cost considerations, as BB has alway been more expensive than the less expensive Birch shop ply, which is what I see nüCamp using now.
 Cheers