Veneer coming off of kitchen sink cabinet base on our 2023 Tab 400

bdunning

After owning our 2023 Tab 400 for less than a month the veneer at the base of the kitchen sink cabinet is coming off both ends. Apparently it used to be solid wood but not recently. I've heard that others have experienced the same thing. Below are some photos.

I was disappointed that nuCamp Warranty would only say to bring it to our dealer but they are 4 1/2 hours away which makes it not worth the drive. I thought that they would at least recommend the best way for me to fix it. In particular what kind of glue would work best, how to apply it without ruining it more and how to clamp it while the glue dries. They said the only thing they could do is to send us a new piece and that they could not recommend glue as the way they apply it is using an iron and if I did the work it would void the warranty.

This should not have happened in the first place and now I'm left to figure out how to fix it on my own. Any help would be appreciated.

manyman297

We have a similar issue but it was kind of our fault. When using the sink, water would roll down the front of the cabinet doors and onto that toe kick. This caused some of the veneer to become delaminated. 

I think the only way to fix it would be to remove the toe kick piece (kind of a pain as you have to disassemble the lower cabinet shelf to get to it) and then use wood glue or contact cement to reapply the veneer. 

I tried to use an iron but the adhesive wasn’t melting at all. 

I wonder if you had some water damage from the sink prior to picking it up? Maybe from the dealer prepping it?

bdunning

Well that would stink having to take it completely off. I doubt whether our is from water damage but who knows how the prep went before we received it. Either way, if that is the case, what a terrible design to have something that sensitive to water right under the sink. In my opinion this is a nuCamp issue and they should take responsibility for the implications of such a poor design decision.

tabiphile

To properly repair that it needs to be removed. Even if you decided to try and glue it in place (don't) you would need to remove it to properly fixture it while the adhesive sets. 
WRT adhesive, trying to guess what to use is pointless if you do not know exactly what was used to bond the lamination in the first place. Gluing glue or adhesive to glue will not work, and that is what you would end up doing if you go that route. 
If this were me, I would be demanding a complete properly bonded replacement piece. The choice of dealer installation vs. doing it yourself is a choice you will need to make.

manyman297

I agree with @tabiphile in that a completely new piece with the veneer bonded already would be the easiest route. 

I haven't actually removed mine yet so it might be less involved than I'm assuming. I do know it's screwed to the bottom shelf and it seems like the shelf needs to be removed to access the toe kick. 

The varnish they use isn't top notch. We use the cubby under the wardrobe as a water station for our dog. We have a silicone mat under the dish to prevent water from standing on the wood but I've noticed the cubby cutout itself (where the cross section of the plywood is visible and varnished) is becoming discolored from standing water. I'll eventually have to sand and reseal it.

bergger

That stinks.  And yes I would ask for a complete replacement piece.  I looked at ours this morning and I'm pretty sure it is a solid piece of birch ply.  It does not look like a veneer. If it is then its done extremely well but I don't think so.  We have a very early production 2021 400, Feb/March 2020 build date.  

I don't understand why they went from solid birch ply to a veneer.  It can't be that much more cost savings to add a veneer to the outer layer of ply.  Especially with the likely hood of a delamination and cost of subsequent repair.  Unless it was a supply chain issue? 

bdunning

Thanks for everyone's responses so far. They have offered to send me a piece of veneer but my concern with that is that the same thing will happen once again. They use a special glue on the back of the veneer that is ironed on. If it already de-laminated once why would it not do the same thing again? I have asked them if it would be possible for them to send me a solid piece of plywood like they used to provide as this is the best long-term solution in my opinion. nucamp tried something that simply didn't work and they should own up to this and fix it.

manyman297

What is the veneer adhered to? Is it just a bent piece of plywood? Take a pic with the cabinet doors open.

Surface prep is the main reason veneers delaminate. I would make sure the raw plywood underneath is clean (use mineral spirts). It's going to be hard to iron on the veneer if you leave that toe kick in place though. 

bdunning

@manyman297 - If you look closely at the photos I uploaded you can see that the material under the veneer is plywood. My guess is that they could not source the same plywood as they used throughout the trailer and used regular plywood with veneer instead. You will also notice that the plywood  has a white coating between it and the veneer so that looks a bit strange to me.

This is turning out to be a real pain if I have to remove it completely and there is no guarantee that it will work the second time either.

kevenv

Birch "Ply" is in fact a birch veneer on top of a plywood substrate. It isn't a solid piece of wood. Hardwood ply has always been like this regardless of the type. A solid piece of hardwood curved would be impractical for this application.

Birch Plywood


Oak Plywood

tabiphile

Do not accept a piece of vernier as a solution. You will not be able to successfully bond it unless you remove the old piece, the delaminated vernier, clean any old adhesive off of it and start over using the standard contact adhesives that are normally used to bond vernier and plywood. Using a heat bonding adhesive over an already failed surface as they are suggesting is not going to work.  Since you will be removing the piece either way, then install a properly constructed replacement that they should provide. Hopefully they have the wherewithal to make a good replacement. 
If you do decide to laminate, laminating to plywood requires the plywood to be vacuumed, tack clothed, sealed (varnish) and then coated with a contact adhesive. You also apply the adhesive to the veneer and after the adhesive is set, use your pressure roller to join the bits. A sharp knife or router is used to trim any overhang. Unless you have mad skills, there will be overhang. Do not use mineral spirits. If you have ever build a formica countertop, this is the same basic process. 

bdunning

I thought I should give another update. I've now heard back from nuCamp and they are sending me a brand new piece of plywood that already has the veneer laminated. I think this is the best possible outcome given all the circumstances. Thank you nuCamp!

manyman297

@bdunning
That's good news and probably what they should've done in the first place. 

Regarding the Birch Plywood conversation, I've gone through 2 sets of replacement doors for under my kitchen sink. The original left side's finish started to show micro cracks probably due to poor application of the enamel. These doors were true Baltic Birch Plywood...the good stuff. 

Nucamp sent me a set of replacement doors that were some other lesser quality plywood. Less veneers. These started to split before I even installed them. It was almost like they weren't acclimated to low humidity of the west and began to shrink.

Again, Nucamp sent me another set of doors...and again they began to shrink and split. 

Whatever grade of plywood they're using now is far inferior to the Baltic Birch they were using. I don't necessarily blame them for the switch as the Russian/Ukrainian war has essentially prevented the US from acquiring any Baltic Birch Ply. And if you can find it, it's three times the pre-pandemic price.

Ironmikey72

I had this same issue on our 2022 T@B400.  After waiting for four months for a replacement piece of veneer from NuCamp and our dealer, Veurinks in Grand Rapids, I decided to replace it with something more durable.  This area is subject to moisture from the entry door and constant kicking by feet and shoes.  Not an ideal location for a flimsy piece of veneer.  I trimmed a five foot piece of black vinyl (rubber) cove moulding and glued it to the plywood backer after I sanded and prepped it.  Problem solved and I am sure it will be more durable than a flimsy piece of veneer!  See Photo

Sharon_is_SAM

Nice contrast, too!

manyman297

My veneer separated down there because of water dripping down the cabinet fronts and on to the top of that toe kick. Because the top of the toe kick is left uncovered and just has a finish applied, water was able to find a way behind it and subsequently behind the veneer. If/when I fix this I want to apply multiple coats of polyurethane to the top of that piece to prevent this from happening again. 

DaveC

@bdunning
Have you replaced the veneer piece? If so, what was involved.  I have the same issue. TIA.

bubbebe

Even if it is hours away,,,, it’s worth it to have them repair it since it is covered by warranty. Take advantage of that.