Hello All

FatTab

I'm purchasing a 320s Boondock this week, super excited. This will be my first RV as well. I was torn between the 320 and the Airstream Boondock and the build quality, functionality, light tow weight and price all pointed me in the direction of the 320.

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask but am wondering if the lithium package is worth it, or should I just buy the base boondock and see what I end up needing over time. It's a big price difference and I'm not sure I'll need it. I'll be working from the 320 a good bit but don't really plan on running the AC or using the micro, just using a laptop and the fan. If it does get to be uncomfortably hot I was leaning more towards a generator instead of all of the expense and complications of a lithium system.

Thanks, looking forward to learning and sharing my experiences with all of you.

AnOldUR

I would say to wait to see what your actual needs are. There are much cheaper DIY options if you decide you need upgraded lithium. Generators work for some, but are controversial. Lithium, solar and a MaxxFan is a good option if you don’t need AC. 

Marceline

If you intend to frequently use the camper off grid for days at a time I would get the lithium battery. If you mostly have shore power you may be content with the dealer’s standard battery. 

Mickerly

Welcome to the group. As stated above, it entirely depends on how you use the trailer. Don't spend money on options you may or may not need.

FatTab

I'm going to get the standard one then upgrade if I see I need it. The cost difference is pretty huge, plus they have the color combo I like without the lithium package so, it's all about how it'll look behind my TV right

kottum

The battery upgrade is a small part of the overall cost if you simply have the dealer install two 100 amp Battle Born lithium (about $2,000) in place of the standard lead acid batteries.  And you will be glad you have lithium again and again. 

We had Airstreams for years, the crappy quality about 2000 to 2012 has been greatly improved. They have finally worked the many bugs out of the Basecamp since re-introduced some years ago. The aluminum panels in/out and glass windows are much better than NuCamp. Comfortable, spacious interior. Although heavier, the Airstream Basecamp will tow down the road easier because of better aerodynamics.  

The interior space in the 320 is tiny and sometimes miserable (bathroom).  NuCamp would be better to limit the teardrop shape to the little rear kitchen models.  I would trade tomorrow but for the lousy trade-in value of NuCamp, and the very expensive (and popular) Airstream basecamp.  Should have got the Airstream Basecamp in the first place.

FatTab

Thanks for the honest reply @kottum, the dealer I'm going to has both, I'll take another look before pulling the trigger. The other issue with the Basecamp is I'd have to get a new TV as well, no way would my Forester handle even the 16x.

AnOldUR

Buyers remorse is a bitch @kottum, but to come on this forum and badmouth a product that most here are happy with is not productive.

We all have our own needs. Unless your T@B somehow got smaller after you bought it, your comments say more about your pre-purchase research than anything else.

kottum

Buyers remorse is common with the 320 purchase.  Witness how many here have traded to the larger 400.  

With the rising price of fuel and of tow vehicles, many of us have done plenty of pre-purchase research. I did. In our case our trailer is used extensively for travel, not about going to a site and staying there for long periods.  Therefore we thought, with some regret, we could get by.  We do get by, but are not happy primarily with the bathroom shower.  Useless for me at 5' 10.

As for NuCamp trade-in for Airstream Basecamp 16, we could get no more than $18,000 on our 10 month old NuCamp 320 BD, and three dealers would not budge off list for the Airstream.

To the O.P., take a look at the standard Airstream Basecamp 16. The 16x adds little useful value, and the interiors are identical.  The Basecamp 16x axle lift is not practical for most, and adds towing wind resistance and decreases towing stability.

I think it is productive to be honest with people who are about to purchase when we can provide our own experience about both products there are asking about.  If coming on here just to bitch about our trailer to let off steam is not productive, I completely agree.

Slackers

We love our little rear galley model 320 CSS but neither of us are over 5'-8".  Yes the bathroom is small but not miserable for us.  I can see where it might be for larger individuals. Back in '19 when purchased our Tab, the dealer also sold Basecamps.  For the price difference it didn't offer enough advantage (function, form, or quality) for our budget and desires.  But to your point, I can see where others may have a different opinion.  When I see a Basecamp in the "wild" it triggers an audible "nice" from me. They are beautiful and well done.  @kottum perhaps you can get a better price for your 320 on the open market versus an intractable dealer and leverage that for your desired Basecamp.

kottum

Thanks Slackers, but we're out of the market.  We have made our choice and will live with it. I still think the 320 is Nucamp's best model for us in spite of its shortcomings.  My comments are for the benefit of the original poster, who asked for advice.

FatTab, I think you are right about the Forester and Basecamp.  It's an easy tow, but the hitch weight will most probably be too much.  Whether it can handle a 320 I'll leave others with that experience to reply.

Marceline

kottum said:

Buyers remorse is common with the 320 purchase.  Witness how many here have traded to the larger 400.  

I'm going to preface this by saying 1) I have no commercial relationship with NuCamp or any NuCamp dealer; and 2) As one of the organizers of the largest T@B rally on the West Coast, I'm in contact with a huge number of T@B owners. 

I don't think that people are moving up from the 320 to the 400 due to "remorse." Maybe it happens in a few cases where people didn't really think out how they were going to use their camper. Mostly I see people who have been happily using a 320 for a few years deciding to move up to a 400 due to changed personal circumstances. They retire and go from being weekend warriors to long-distance travelers (or even full-timers). Maybe the grandkids have gotten old enough to bring along. Or a younger couple starts having kids and wants more room. 

The interior space in the 320 is tiny and sometimes miserable (bathroom). NuCamp would be better to limit the teardrop shape to the little rear kitchen models.

It's hard to understand what you're trying to say here. The CS-S has the exact same wetbath as the 320. NuCamp builds teardrop campers. It's what they do. When Dutchman abandoned the T@B, Pleasant Valley took over the license to manufacture the German design for the T@B teardrop trailer (which is not a clamshell). It's strange to suggest that NuCamp, which has a very successful business building and selling teardrops, should abandon their flagship product.

With the rising price of fuel and of tow vehicles, many of us have done plenty of pre-purchase research. I did. In our case our trailer is used extensively for travel, not about going to a site and staying there for long periods.  Therefore we thought, with some regret, we could get by.  We do get by, but are not happy primarily with the bathroom shower.  Useless for me at 5' 10.

As someone else pointed out, you kind of contradict yourself here. The size of the 320 wetbath hasn't changed. Presumably your height hasn't changed. So if you have remorse, it seems like something went awry with your research. There are thousands and thousands of happy T@B owners out there. These are people who understood the trade-off between towability and comfort and are happy with their decision. In fact, there are still many people happily using T@Bs that were built without any bathroom at all.

I hope that one way or another you find a way to be happy too.

kottum

Do know that I am not the least bit unhappy. This is still luxury, we traveled extensively for 35 years using four VW Campers.  No bathroom at all, no hot water, no heat on the early ones, but a huge improvement over the tents.  Then two Airstreams we spent half the year in, which we sold due to my cancer diagnosis and bought a winter place in AZ.  Presently all is well with us and our NuCamp.

Perhaps we can put the personal stuff aside.  FatTab asked some questions, I gave my honest answers based on my experience. 

Slackers

Dang Doug! I didn't know about your diagnosis. We're pulling for your success in battling it.

kottum

Thanks, the earlier cancer is gone.  Keeping an eye on suspect lung nodules now. I am 100% good.

There's no end to this stuff as we age.  Just don't let it get you down. My logic is to live like we will live forever, keep doing what we have always loved.  We love travel, seeing and doing new things and meeting new people.  We have chosen travel trailers for travel.  Our Tab 320 works well enough.  None are perfect, it's the "make do" spirit that makes life interesting and brings happiness.

But to FatTab, I still wish we had a usable shower.  

FatTab

Well, I'm going tomorrow to look at both the 320 and the Basecamp. I'm hoping with the 320 I can use the car I own, a Forester Wilderness, that has 3k towing capacity. It'll be cutting it close but I think it will work. Thanks again everyone for the insight....

kottum

Remember that 3k towing capacity is for an empty tow vehicle.  The weight of everything you load into it, including passengers must be subtracted to reduce tow capacity.  Same with the trailer, dry weight plus whatever you load into it including water in the tank must be added to get actual towing weight.

Also (if the engine is not turbo-charged) the tow capacity given is at sea level.  The capability of the engine will be reduced as you climb to higher altitudes.

I think you can take the Basecamp out of the running with your Forester (no matter what the salesman tells you).  The GVWR (maximum loaded weight) of the Tab 320 is 2900 lbs.  If you were to fully load the trailer to 2900 lbs, you can only put 100 lbs in your Forester to reach its 3k tow rating.  One passenger and nothing else will put you over that.  So yes, loading is a balancing act between tow vehicle and trailer in such light weight tow vehicles.

For towing, learn about GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating), GCWR (gross combined weight rating), and individual GAWR (gross axle weight rating). This may have you looking for a larger tow vehicle or a lighter camper.

AnOldUR

The tow weight rating given by auto manufacturers is normally the GTW which is the maximum loaded weight of a trailer that it is capable of pulling.The GCWR (maximum combined loaded trailer and loaded tow vehicle weight) is a different rating that must also be considered, but should not be confused. Also look into the tow vehicles rear axle weight rating as the tongue weight will add mostly to the rear axle. It will be pushing it, and may not be comfortable, but the 320 will probably meet the ratings even loaded.

FatTab

@kottum the basecamp is definitely out unless I just fall in love with it, in that case the Subaru is out 

kottum

My advise would be to get the camper you really like, suits your travel/camping needs, and commit to take great care of it and keep it a long time.  Not too small and not too big.  We  would never had bought our 320 if we were using it for extended vacations at a destination.  Rather we bought it for long distance travel, an easy tow, and a comfortable shelter to spend our nights on the road.  With the exception of the shower, it works terrific  for that.  A Basecamp would have been better, but for another $20,000.

Your Subaru is barely an adequate tow vehicle based on the numbers. You mentioned a hitch but for towing you also need a transmission cooler.  The best bargain in tow vehicles for smaller campers are the six cylinder minivans such as Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda for example.  They have good load capacity (better than some late model 1/2 ton pickups) and an exceptionally stable chassis design for towing.  For the best price, look for a clean late model van from Chrysler with a factory hitch and transmission cooler.  Most minivans are rated to tow 3500 lbs, but that is a low rating that hasn't changed for years, even though the engines, transmissions and chassis have become stronger.  Then feel free to compare the 320 and Basecamp.

Or get the 320, keep your Subaru and a lot of money, and travel really, really light.

kottum

Our Honda Ridgeline is the only vehicle we have had that is honest enough to explain in its owners manual that its towing capacity is reduced pound-for-pound by weight carried in the Ridgeline.

KismetKrush

Welcome! I know you will love it! If you have extra money, get lithium. If you don't have extra money, wait and use an electric generator like me (bought later when I could afford it). @kottum thanks for all your perspectives and sharing!

Marceline

FatTab said:

Well, I'm going tomorrow to look at both the 320 and the Basecamp. I'm hoping with the 320 I can use the car I own, a Forester Wilderness, that has 3k towing capacity. It'll be cutting it close but I think it will work. Thanks again everyone for the insight....

I tried to find more specs for the Forester Wilderness but didn't have much luck beyond 3,000lbs and tongue weight of 300lbs. The 320 is well within those limits. It seems like the Wilderness has the same engine as the other Foresters and that the doubled towing capacity is due to the addition of oil coolers.

If you don't plan to bring a lot of extra gear (bicycles, kayaks, friends, etc) you can probably make this combo work - especially if you're a solo traveler. I used an old Santa Fe that had a similar towing capacity for about 4 years before I got something beefier. It's especially important to think about how you pack any heavy gear (e.g. a big cooler) in the Forester. With a mid-size SUV it's really helpful to put heavy stuff in front of the rear axle (i.e. fold down your rear seats and put the heavy stuff as far forward as possible). As long as you pack light and drive like a little old lady it should be OK. Do not expect to climb big mountains at 70mph.

You haven't said how you intend to use this camper, but if you want to keep the Forester and zip around without a worry in the world, you might have a look at a T@G, or maybe one of the older (pre-2012) Dutchman-built T@Bs that weigh less (no wetbath). 

Mickerly

We pull our 320CS with a Subaru Outback Onyx XT and experience absolutely no issues. Subaru is building high quality vehicles and the actual weights you may tow are in your owners manual. When we had a Forester, we pulled a LittleGuy Silver Shadow. The 320CS empty is approximately 2000lb. Depending on the model year there is a plus or minus 75lb. Your final weight is based on what you put in. Unless you carry rocks, there won't be space for more than about 300lb. The trailer has a 3500lb axil, so the only limit to your gear is what can fit. I'm betting the Airstream Basecamp is significantly heavier. One thing I noticed looking at the Airstream line is the trailer empty weights are sometimes close to the maximum axil weight; therefore limiting you gear by weight.

While we both work, we camp on weekends, not more than 4 days at a time. We've looked at many other trailers. The 320CS is by far the perfect trailer for us. At 6 foot, I can use the shower; you just have to sit down. In a few years when we are both retired, we will travel for longer periods. At that point we will probably move to a 400 or an Oliver. The added interior space is better for longer travels. The Airstream is pretty, but the cost of purchase, cost of repair and weight move them away from the top of our list of possibilities.

Figure out what you need, and buy one. Good luck in your search.

kottum

The 320 has a 2900 lb axle, Boon Dock model is over 2000 lbs, and full tank of water starts you off with 180 lbs added weight in the trailer.  

I originally thought the 320 was very aerodynamic, it's not.  As another poster said, it sometimes feels like pulling a parachute.  You will really dislike headwinds when towing with your Forester.  Although the Basecamp is indeed heavier, it is aerodynamic.  Andrew Thomson at Can-Am Airstream, who specializes in setting up tow vehicles and has been doing it for over 40 years, claims the Basecamp is the easiest pulling trailer he's ever hooked up to.  

We can talk weights and tow ratings all day long, but there are other factors not so measurable that can make or break a successful combination.  See how well the transmission of a borderline tow vehicle holds up at 95 degrees outside temp with a headwind, compared to 75 degrees with no headwind.

dragonsdofly

@FatTab the most important item to consider for safe towing is to NEVER UNDERSIZE your tow vehicle!This has been covered in other posts and deserves to get mentioned yet again. -Denise