Batteries

Tabalicious

Question: I have a 2021 Tab 400 and just realized my battery is dead. I am battery stupid so wondering if anyone can suggest what to buy and how to install them and also I want to make sure it works with the solar in the winter. 

Clipper_One

I have a 2021 tab 320 s bd, and I have a single led acid battery in the front tub. I am planing on upgrading to dual lithium batteries. The attached link shows different modifications done to the tab. Check it out
https://teardropsandtinycampers.com/sj-mods.htm

You cal always do a search type battery upgrade 

MuttonChops

@Tabalicious ;  What Battery Type, Capacity to Buy . . . . . one size does not fit all . . . . .

Consider you start by asking several questions:

= 1 =  Why did your original battery die?
               User error; for example battery cut-off switch was 'on' during storage.
               Or battery was not getting fully recharged between trips.

= 2 =  What type of camping will you be doing; lots of off-grid or mostly electrical service campgrounds.
               When my 320S was purchased, like many folks the day dreaming plan was long off-grid trips.
               What I found was 70% of my 'camping' is in RV Parks or campgrounds with electric service.
               My off-grid nights seem to be 2-4 nights . . . which is doable with power Management using
               batteries equal to the original battery type/capacity.

= 3 =  Any battery type should be compatible with your Solar installation (check the controller user
                manual).  Does your "for winter" comment mean - - - solar used to keep battery fully charged
                while in storage.

= 4 =  How much money are you willing to spend.  Do you need 'state-of-the-art' power reserves or
               enough to get the job done.

pthomas745

Your 400 has dual 6V batteries, and they are pretty robust.

What exactly is telling you your battery is "dead"? 

Your Victron app?  A multimeter?  Or, suddenly, no 12V items work in the trailer?  Do you have any data at all on the actual state of your batteries?

Have you checked the simple things?  The Gloso circuit breaker?  The fuses at the battery? 

Sonyguy

Tabalicious... I also have a 2021 400 and the batteries are weak - monitoring on app VictronConnect and they quickly drop to 12.4 or about 70% in a couple of days even with solar panel.  I've read that these 6V AGMs may only last 3 years (some differ in opinion, but now that is our experience).  FYI... I've checked w a dealer and they quoted me $375 per AGM battery plus $125 to install.  Ugh.  I have in our Tab Harris batteries (HBDAGMGC6-A) group size GC2 and emailed them for a quote.  Still waiting.  I've contemplated lithium but the prices seem nuts and then the stock controller will likely need to be upgraded too.  The path of least resistance is to change out the 130 lbs of battery in there w similar, hopefully not throw out my back, which I'll probably do,  but I can wait until spring.  Oh, and then after battery disconnect will have to figure out how to get VictronConnect set up again!    

pthomas745

@Sonyguy Your 2021 400 has a Victron solar controller that is perfectly capable of charging a lithium battery.  Your WFCO may also be able to charge one "completely".  So, check the converter and we can sort that out.  Many owners have swapped to lithium batteries without doing anything to the trailer except changing the parameters of the Victron controller or upgrading whatever controller they have.

And: If you have gone two days with solar and your battery is at 12.4....that is fairly good.  They haven't dropped "70 percent", they have only "dropped" about 30 percent. If your 225 amp hour setup has 112 amp hours to use to reach the "50 percent" level, you still have plenty of power left.

And, the standard disclaimer about battery readings on lead acid batteries: the only good voltage readings for lead acid come from batteries not in use, or "rested".  The battery switch must be off, and no power coming into the battery.  

ChrisFix

@Tabalicious
The batteries on my 2021 T@B 400 are also bad. I just ordered new LiFePO4 batteries from Li Time.
My Harris AGM 6 Volt batteries charge normally, but the voltage falls off rapidly after about 50AH are consumed. I see the batteries get fully charged with voltage in the mid 13V range, but when the get to about 80% state of charge, the voltage drops. This weekend they were showing 8V and 80% SOC. And they charged normally from there and work normally up to the point they fall off the cliff.
I have the factory Victron solar controller and a second Victron Controller for my external panels, as well a Victron Smart Shunt, so I have very good data on my battery status, but no idea why they behave they way they do now.
The batteries have never been abused or left to discharge completely, but they started failing earlier this year. We first experiened this with the Alde shutting the heat off due to low battery voltgage.

Sonyguy

Tabalicious, you may want to watch this - Upgrade your RV to lithium...  it was helpful to me.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bat14fmJteE

Sonyguy

@Chrisfix   Can you share the price of the LiFePO4s and how they fit in the 2021 Tab 400?  

runline

I also have a 2021 Tab 400 BD with solar on the roof and my 2 Harris 6v AGM batteries died (I assume from overcharging as I discovered them both swollen to the brink of exploding) I recently purchased 2 Battleborn GC2 batteries (during the Amazon Prime day event for $697 ea) that drop in without modifying the existing battery compartment. I also purchased a Victron Smart Shunt and upgraded the convertor to the 55 amp Progressive Dynamics to support full charging of the lithium Battleborn batteries. Still waiting on delivery of 1 of the batteries and should be able to update how it all turns out shortly.

Sharon_is_SAM

@runline - how were you charging your AGM batteries?  Geni, converter, solar?

ChrisFix

Sonyguy said:

@Chrisfix   Can you share the price of the LiFePO4s and how they fit in the 2021 Tab 400?  

I purchased this Li Time 460AH battery with a 250 Amp BMS for $1,500 including shipping. 
https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-460ah-lifepo4-lithium-battery-250a-bms-5888wh-energy
It is the same length as the two Harris AGM batteries the T@B comes with, about 1" shorter in height and 3.5" wider than the standard batteries...but is the most compact 400+ AH setup you can have - and requires no additional battery cables. 
I haven't built the new battery box yet, but will post when I have it installed.
I'm planning on adding the Victron 3000W multiplus at the same time, and am still working out how to wire and fuse all of that.

runline

Hi @Sharon_is_SAM I had it plugged into my home's 30 amp hookup with a surge protector while parked in my driveway for quite some time in between trips. I never thought there was risk of overcharging. Wouldn't there be some sort of shut off at some point? 

Sharon_is_SAM

The TaB power center battery charger is a smart, 3 stage charger (Bulk, Absorption, Float).  Overcharging should not happen unless there is something off with the charger.  Did you ever monitor the voltage as it charged the batteries?  You are sure your hook up is 30 amp?

xdr

Okay I have a silly (and apparently irrational) battery question for you battery wise campers…..

We have a 21 Tab 400 and the batteries needed to be replaced. We just replaced the AGM batteries with 2 Battleborn batteries. A certified Battleborn installer replaced the batteries for us and dear husband is thrilled with our new capacity. He is in charge of the electric details when we camp. We have had several camping trips off grid where he spends time chasing the sun with external solar panels to keep things running. He loves the battery hours we now have. 

I am also glad about the batteries- but— I read or see videos now and again where an electric bike explodes in a home and the fires are SO intense! 

My husband has zero worries about this happening to us because of the type of battery we use in the Tab. 

My silly question- is there anyone else who also has morbid thoughts about sleeping on top of lithium batteries?
I tend to worry about ridiculous things. 😉 I’d like to hear from others that you are super confident in the safety of these batteries. It’s not that I don’t trust my hubby- I’d just like to hear from others. 

Thanks 
mary 

Grumpy_G

The Battleborn batteries and pretty much any other "Lithium" battery for RVs are actually Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) batteries which are different from the Lithium-Ion batteries that make for spectacular fires. 

runline

@Sharon_is_SAM I did not monitor the batteries. Being fairly new to this topic I wasn't sure how to even monitor it. I  am still in the process of setting up a new Victron smart shunt and just discovered I could view the solar charging through the Victron app from the Victron MPPT for the factory solar. Is there another way to view the charging prior to installing the smart shunt? I will have to verify the hookup I had installed is indeed 30 amp (I instructed the electrician to do that at the time and assumed thats what he installed, but will verify). Sorry for the elementary questions , still learning  

runline

Here's a few pics of the Harris batteries that failed.

Sharon_is_SAM

I think the Victron MPPT controller via VictronConnect displays battery voltage, but voltage is not the best way to track a battery especially if you are continuously plugged in.  Smart shunt is best.    

xdr

@Grumpy_G
I laughed and laughed when I read your response. You said exactly what my husband keeps saying - in as few words as he says it! 

Ok I’ll rest at ease,… or try to. 🤣🤣🤣

qhumberd

I wonder if the Harris battery folks might reimburse for those damaged batteries. What happened looks like a potential liability for them.

Grumpy_G

@xdr Here it is explained in many more words  https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-205-types-of-lithium-ion

runline

My new Battleborn batteries and Smartshunt finally installed. Surprised myself I was able to do it!!

otr_320

@runline, congratulations! Looks good!  

What will you be powering with your inverter?

runline

@qhumberd I wish I asked them, but I already brought them to the local auto parts store for recycling and they gave me a $20 gift card at least . @otr_320 we mostly boondock as my wife loves to go to a nice spot on the way towards Yosemite called Pinecrest that doesnt have hookups so wont be running much other than a portable honeywell 360 degree heater when it's cold or a small coffee maker. Now with the Battleborns installed I expect we should be good for at least a 3-4 day trip without hookups, longer with good sun . My next project is to install a Victron MPPT 100/30 to support an external 350watt Bluetti solar panel to complement the solar on the roof of our Tab. 

pthomas745

@runline Your portable heater would use about 700 watts on low, and 1500 watts on high.  That would be a significant draw on any battery system.  Your Alde on propane can keep you going on a tiny amount of 12V power and propane.

And, yes, nice install!

Marceline

runline said:

@qhumberd I wish I asked them, but I already brought them to the local auto parts store for recycling and they gave me a $20 gift card at least . @otr_320 we mostly boondock as my wife loves to go to a nice spot on the way towards Yosemite called Pinecrest that doesnt have hookups so wont be running much other than a portable honeywell 360 degree heater when it's cold or a small coffee maker. Now with the Battleborns installed I expect we should be good for at least a 3-4 day trip without hookups, longer with good sun . My next project is to install a Victron MPPT 100/30 to support an external 350watt Bluetti solar panel to complement the solar on the roof of our Tab. 

@runline

If you're not already on the mailing list for the NorCal T@B rally group, here's some info about our annual rally:

https://www.norcaltab.org/

There's also a Facebook Group (for NorCal residents only): https://www.facebook.com/groups/norcaltabfamily

runline

pthomas745 said:

@runline Your portable heater would use about 700 watts on low, and 1500 watts on high.  That would be a significant draw on any battery system.  Your Alde on propane can keep you going on a tiny amount of 12V power and propane.

And, yes, nice install!

Thank you @pthomas745 yes thanks for reminding me not to forget the Alde system! I ended up swapping the 4awg to 2awg although the main cabling from NuCamp appears to be 4awg so not sure I'm gaining much there if at all, but I feel better about it.

runline

Marceline said:

runline said:

@qhumberd I wish I asked them, but I already brought them to the local auto parts store for recycling and they gave me a $20 gift card at least . @otr_320 we mostly boondock as my wife loves to go to a nice spot on the way towards Yosemite called Pinecrest that doesnt have hookups so wont be running much other than a portable honeywell 360 degree heater when it's cold or a small coffee maker. Now with the Battleborns installed I expect we should be good for at least a 3-4 day trip without hookups, longer with good sun . My next project is to install a Victron MPPT 100/30 to support an external 350watt Bluetti solar panel to complement the solar on the roof of our Tab. 

@runline

If you're not already on the mailing list for the NorCal T@B rally group, here's some info about our annual rally:

https://www.norcaltab.org/

There's also a Facebook Group (for NorCal residents only): https://www.facebook.com/groups/norcaltabfamily

Thanks @Marceline I just joined the group! Looks like I missed the meet up for this year, but will make sure to join you all next year!

otr_320

runline said:

@otr_320 we mostly boondock as my wife loves to go to a nice spot on the way towards Yosemite called Pinecrest that doesnt have hookups so wont be running much other than a portable honeywell 360 degree heater when it's cold or a small coffee maker. Now with the Battleborns installed I expect we should be good for at least a 3-4 day trip without hookups, longer with good sun . My next project is to install a Victron MPPT 100/30 to support an external 350watt Bluetti solar panel to complement the solar on the roof of our Tab. 

The two Battleborns will serve you well!  The Victron 100/30 and 350w Bluetti should be a nice upgrade.

You mentioned upgrading your battery to inverter cable from 4 awg to 2 awg in another post. Judging from your pics, I'd guess-estimate you have a 3-4 ft (one-way) run between your batteries and inverter.  If true, that would roughly equate to a 2% voltage drop at 125a/12vdc with 4 awg cable. 125a/12vdc is roughly what you'd need to power a Honeywell 360 space heater on high (1500w/120vac) with your inverter.  With 2 awg you should experience roughly a 1.3% voltage drop.  Much better.  IMO, one should strive for <2% voltage drop under maximum load---I believe your upgrade to 2 awg was a good call.

You'll probably find the Alde system the most efficient way to heat the 320 (vs. using the Honeywell).  But, gotta say, the Alde takes quite a while to get up-to-speed when it's first turned on.  We've found running a space heater on high for a bit very helpful until the Alde gets up-to-speed.

runline

otr_320 said:

runline said:

@otr_320 we mostly boondock as my wife loves to go to a nice spot on the way towards Yosemite called Pinecrest that doesnt have hookups so wont be running much other than a portable honeywell 360 degree heater when it's cold or a small coffee maker. Now with the Battleborns installed I expect we should be good for at least a 3-4 day trip without hookups, longer with good sun . My next project is to install a Victron MPPT 100/30 to support an external 350watt Bluetti solar panel to complement the solar on the roof of our Tab. 

The two Battleborns will serve you well!  The Victron 100/30 and 350w Bluetti should be a nice upgrade.

You mentioned upgrading your battery to inverter cable from 4 awg to 2 awg in another post. Judging from your pics, I'd guess-estimate you have a 3-4 ft (one-way) run between your batteries and inverter.  If true, that would roughly equate to a 2% voltage drop at 125a/12vdc with 4 awg cable. 125a/12vdc is roughly what you'd need to power a Honeywell 360 space heater on high (1500w/120vac) with your inverter.  With 2 awg you should experience roughly a 1.3% voltage drop.  Much better.  IMO, one should strive for <2% voltage drop under maximum load---I believe your upgrade to 2 awg was a good call.

You'll probably find the Alde system the most efficient way to heat the 320 (vs. using the Honeywell).  But, gotta say, the Alde takes quite a while to get up-to-speed when it's first turned on.  We've found running a space heater on high for a bit very helpful until the Alde gets up-to-speed.

I upgraded both the positive and negative cables connecting the batteries together and also the negative from battery to Victron Smart Shunt to 2awg, but not from the battery to the inverter. As far as the Honeywell it does really work nice to get that chill out and only run it for a few minutes while the Alde ramps up. We're going to take it out to Big Sur just before Christmas so expect to need the heater then!