Burner Condensation

Basil48192

I have a 2021 T@B which I 'dewinterized' last week.  We had an unexpected cold front move into Southeaster Michigan last night.  It only got to 32 degrees for a few hours, but I wanted to be safe, so I ran my Alde heat through the night with my unit parked in the backyard.
When I went to check it this morning, I had (what appears to be) water dripping out of the A/C vent under the passenger side.  I looked inside and there was a noticeable amount of water on the floor, near the Alde pan and under the driver's side cushions.  I have checked every fitting, run both hot and cold water through all of the faucets, but cannot find a leak.
Question:  I know that a propane burner generates moisture during combusion.  Could this water have come from the burner...and leaked over the drain pan because the T@B is not perfectly level?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thank you in advance.

Grumpy_G

I suppose it could have come from the combustion process but I think it's unlikely. Gas powered cars have weep holes in the mufflers because the water vapor condenses inside the exhaust until operating temperature is reached, but the Alde exhaust is much shorter. You could fire up the Alde and see if there's water dripping from the exhaust in the first minute or two.

bergger

Yeah I agree with @Grumpy_G, unlikely that much water came from the ALDE.  I run our ALDE on a regular basis over the winter when the temps are in single digits and have never had any issues with condensation.  At most a bit of condensation drips and freezes on the ALDE exhaust port but that's it.  The ALDE is a sealed unit as far as the combustion goes so it should not emit any gas or condensation outside of the unit from the propane burner.  

Basil48192

@Grumpy_G @bergger
Thank you both for your quick response! 
I didn't think it would produce that much water either......but I couldn't find a leak.  Finally, after I connected a hose to my 'city water' connection, I found a slow drip coming from the hot water supply line, just before it goes under the shower floor.  The water was 'channeling' down between the two hoses all the way to the Alde.  With the constant pressure, I could hear a faint hissing noise.  I just tightened the crimping band on the white hose side of the elbow shown below and it stopped. 

That's actually the second band clamp that I've had to re-crimp.  I think I'll make a habit of periodically checking as many of those fittings as I can access. 

Thank you again.  I appreciate having a forum like this and members like you to help me keep my little camper healthy.

 

bergger

I'm glad you got it solved.  I really wish NuCamp would connect the flexible hose properly.  Pinch clamping flexible hose to a pex fitting is not proper but is what most of the RV industry uses.  The construction of T@b trailers is extremely good overall but some of their plumbing is not up to par with the rest of the trailer.   They should fix this.  

Sharon_is_SAM

@bergger - plumbing novice here - what is a better way to connect the flexible hose to the pex fitting?  

Basil48192

@Sharon_is_SAM I've done a lot of plumbing (old house), but really only have experience with rigid pipe (black iron and copper).  Rigid piping would not be a good choice for an RV as it would be more susceptible to rupturing if subjected to freezing temperatures. 
I think the PEX that Nucamp uses is the correct material, but as @bergger mentions, they should use the higher quality 'crimp' clamps on the fittings instead of the pinch clamps that tend to open up over time.  Also, they use a lot of 90 fittings (as you see in my photo above).  PEX is meant to bend and curve to reduce the number of fittngs and potential leaks....though, granted, there is not a lot of space for a long radius bend in most RV's.  

Basil48192

Another note...both times I've had leaks it has been on the white, flexible tubing connection and not the PEX (blue/red) connection.  I don't think the crimp clamps are meant for use with the white, flexible tubing. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Thanks @Basil48192.  I learned something.  This may help explain why they use pinch clamps.
https://blog.boshart.com/4-reasons-to-consider-pinch-clamps-vs.-crimp-rings-for-making-pex-connections#:~:text=Pinch%20Clamp%20Tools%20Work%20Better%20in%20Tight%20Spaces&text=Especially%20when%20your%20PEX%20is,to%20make%20a%20proper%20connection.

bergger

Attaching PVC to pex by using a pinch clamp to attach it to a pex fitting is just not correct and has a much higher probability of leading to leaks.  Being a tight space is just an excuse in my opinion.  The RV industry does it because it's faster and cheaper.  They don't really care if you get a leak down the road.  Much of the plumbing in the T@bs is done correctly but there are several incorrectly plumbed pvc to pex lines.  They should use a barbed fitting and there are fittings made to correctly connect pvc to pex.  I think they could also clean up some of the plumbing and get rid of alot of unnecessary connections by using metal pex bend supports.  I've thought about taking some photos of the incorrect plumbing I've found in ours and sending it off to NuCamp to ask if they are going to correct this sometime in the future.  

I remember looking at the guts of an Oliver trailer at an RV show and the plumbing was as nice as the other finishes in the trailer.  Not one pinch clamp to be seen, on the PVC or pex.  It looks like they use compression pex fittings and clamp fittings in the tight spaces.  And bend supports at about every bend in the pipe.  I honestly don't remember seeing much pvc tubing.  It was some nice looking plumbing and I wish NuCamp would follow suit.  

Here are a few pics of what I think are some pretty plumbing.  It's a bit hard to see being it's a little dark but in the first picture, in the lower left, you can see a pvc tube and a pex pipe coming into the same fitting and going into the water heater.  This is a proper connection, no pinch connection onto a plastic pex fiting.  

Mickerly

I can agree on the supports for turns and a few missfit, long or short lengths of tubing. That's an attention to detail issue. Oliver clearly has a good handle in this point. The PEX manual has three expectable connections. NuCamp using one and Oliver uses the other two. There isn't a correct or incorrect in this case. NuCamp chose the one that is replicable without destroying the tubing.