Microwave Outlet

Basil48192

I have a 2021, 320S with a microwave.  The electrical outlet below the microwave has just a single plug.  Aside from the typical residential requirement of providing a dedicated circuit for a microwave, is there any reason I couldn't change the single plug outlet near the microwave to a duplex outlet?
Thank you in advance.

Yoshi_TAB

Hi, 

I did that exact swap out.  The new outlet also has USB plugs for powering a nearby Firestick and USB fan.  I changed all my outlets to those that have USB plugs.  

Basil48192

@Yoshi_TAB.  Thanks!

ScottG

No reason at all, electrically speaking. Just be aware the circuit will still be limited to the rated amperage of the breaker--which I'm guessing is probably 15A. Since many microwaves draw close to that, I suspect nuCamp installed that odd single outlet to prevent owners from trying to run their cappuccino machine at the same time they heat up their breakfast burrito. 

Basil48192

@ScottG
@Yoshi_TAB
Thank you both!  I bought a duplex receptacle...but the opening in the plywood is very tight and nearly touches the side connections screws.  I'd like to install a regular outlet box....but I don't think I have the width.  There is a vertical pipe (I'm guessing conduit) inside the wall which would interfere with a box.  I suppose I can just widen the opening enough to provide a decent amount of clearance for the connection screws.  

ScottG

Interesting. I assumed any existing receptacles would already be installed in a standard box, but since my T@B is from the pre-microwave era, I don't really know how things are set up ion those newer units. If you get a chance to snap a photo of what you've got, I'm curious to see it.

Basil48192

@ScottG
Will do.  The wiring gets pressed into the back of the receptacle and the contacts slice through the insulation.  Looking on Amazon, they have similar 'RV' style outlets that don't require a box...but I haven't found any rated for 20 amps.

Basil48192

@ScottG
Sorry for the delay....got sidetracked on other projects.
After doing some digging, I realized that this type of receptacle is called a 'speedwire' receptacle and is quite common in the RV industry.  They take up less space, don't require a conventional wiring box, and (if you have the right tool) are relatively fast to install.  There are no connection screws.  The three conductors are laid into grooves in the brass framework, then pressed into place (I drew them into the photo below).  The brass cuts into the insulation and contacts the copper wire.  A second plastic piece then snaps into place to cover all of the connections and clamp the wires in place.

I haven't been able to find a 20 amp, speedwire receptacle on Amazon.  I'm also not sure if I need a special tool to clamp the wires in place.  So, I think I'm going with the conventional wiring box.  I will have to enlarge the hole in the plywood wall without hitting anything buried in the wall.  It will be tight, but I think it will fit.

Anyway....another learning curve for me!

Basil48192

@Yoshi_TAB
Sorry to belabor this!  I ended up putting the original box back in.  I didn't have room to put in a standard box due to the plumbing vent pipe.  How did you mount your new receptacle?
Thanks!

ScottG

Thanks for the pic, @Basil48192 --it all makes sense now. I think my 2015 has standard boxes, but it's been so long since I've needed to take a close look at them, I can't remember for certain. 

rfuss928

Quick search found this...


https://www.amazon.com/RV-Designer-S811-Contained-Outlet/dp/B008OJ6XA0/ref=asc_df_B008OJ6XA0/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693128203619&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9402196558580223531&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005645&hvtargid=pla-521834141484&mcid=e6a35bc7173c302e9271e4c42590c860&th=1

Basil48192

@rfuss928
Thank you for looking!  I had seen that one too.  It's very close....but because mine powers the microwave, it needs to be rated for 20 amps.  I have only been able to find the 15 amp versions.  
@ScottG
I have a combination of this 'speedwire' type and the conventional outlets with a box.  I'm guessing they used this for the microwave due to the limited space in that wall.
Thank you both for your comments!

ScottG

FWIW, receptacle ratings can be deceptive. 15A outlets (defined by the fact they can only accept 15A plugs) are frequently installed on 20A circuits. The outlet hardware itself is typically capable of handling more than 15A. This may or may not apply to the speedwire version, where the ability of the quick connects to accept 12g wire (as required on 20A circuits) would be the limiting factors. Might be worth a closer look, though.

rfuss928

The .7 cu-ft Contoure microwaves used in the 320s are rated at less than 10 amps.

ScottG

@Basil48192, given the small microwave installed, I'm surprised that the circuit is 20A. Are you basing that assessment on the outlet or on the breaker in the AC distribution panel?

Yoshi_TAB

Hi, I only put in a 15 amp self contained duplex outlet when I swapped mine out. Even though the breaker is 20 amps, I felt comfortable using it for the dedicated microwave circuit, which as others stated is fine for the 1050W installed microwave.  1050/125=8.5 amps

Basil48192

@ScottG
@rfuss928
Again, thank you for the help!  All good points.  
The original outlet is rated for 20 amps, the Romex is 12 ga., and the breaker is 20 amps.  I could easily change the breaker to a 15 amp so as not to overload a 15 amp outlet....if that ever happened.  My other concern was exactly as ScottG mentioned.  I'm not crazy about the 'guillotine' style connectors and I was concerned that a 15 amp breaker might be too tight on the 12 gauge wiring. 
Last resort, I suppose I could change the romex, the breaker, and the outlet....but I think I'll just leave it as is for now.  It was just one of those ideas that I had which, I thought, would be a quick, simple swap.  I'ver learned that these campers are designed to utilize every square inch of space and there is usually a reason for most things.
Thanks once again!

Yoshi_TAB

Hi @Basil48192

I think this is listed as a self contained (no box is needed) 20 amp outlet.

https://www.dyersonline.com/valterra-white-20-amp-receptacle.html

Basil48192

@Yoshi_TAB
Wow!  Thanks!  I guess I need to venture away from Amazon now and then!

rfuss928

True 20 amp outlets have a different opening than 15 amp receptacles to accept the plugs required on 20 amp rated appliances.

Our trailer has three 20 amp breakers but none of the outlets have the "T" slot shown above.  
Using a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuits simply prevents connecting any appliance larger than 15 amp rating to that outlet.  No problem unless you're trying to connect a 20 amp load...

Yoshi_TAB

I can’t take credit…I follow this RV electrical group on FB.  I have found it helpful at times, especially when installing my inverter and transfer switch.  

 

ScottG

To reiterate, in this case I think it comes down to whether "quick connects" on the particular device in question can accept 12g wire without damaging the wire or the device. That information is usually stamped on the device itself, or found in the teeny-tiny print on the teeny-tiny piece of paper stuffed in the box. I wouldn't necessarily rely solely on the product description shown on a web site.

Yoshi_TAB

Hi

I agree that the particular brand I posted should be checked.  But the OEM self contained outlet supplied with my ‘21 used a similar style connections and used  yellow 12 AWG Romex. But, that doesn’t make it right.  I find some of the electrical on my ‘21 not up to the best standards .  I once tried to run to ground the requirements for RV electrical (like in a house) and could not find any.

Basil48192

My T@B (same model and year as @ Yoshi_TAB, had the same components:  12 Ga romex, a single outlet receptacle, stamped 20 amp, with the quick connect back.  Again, I'm going to leave it as is for now....I don't really use the receptacles that much.  It just came up with on my last trip with my wife.  We ended up using my small DVD player....and that's the perfect place to plug it in.
Thanks once more to everyone....I thought I knew 'enough' about electrical wiring but I did learn something here!