How long can you dry camp with a stock non lithium battery?

HappyCamper2024

Hey y'all. We are considering a move from truck camping to a new 2023 "signature series" T@B 320s, "leaf and linen". Price is good, bed is big, seems great. It has the solar panel and tongue of the boondock package but they don't call it that.

Our regular camping includes a lot of time off power. Usually 4-6 nights twice a year, plus whatever other trips we make. We've been truck camping til now and are ready to move inside.

After some research it seems upgrading to lithium might be complicated and I don't want to count on that and don't want to be unhappy with our new purchase "as is". 

With a stock battery, is it realistic to think that we can spend 4-5 nights out with a couple hrs of lighting each night and use of that sweet roof fan for cooling at night? Maybe spray off with the shower once or twice? We can do without fridge, stereo, tv, etc. 

There are some light trees around and weather comes and goes. We'd certainly get some power from solar but not always "middle of an open field with no clouds or trees" solar. We currently use solar for portable batteries and it works well.

The black water is not a concern for this situation, our main camping area has bathrooms we can access and we know we dont plan to rely on the cassette for much more than emergency use.

What do y'all think? As a rank newbie I would really appreciate some input on this.

Basil48192

@HappyCamper2024

I'm not familiar with that camper.  Do you know what size battery is in it?
Remember, if you have a traditional lead/acid battery (or AGM), it is recommended not allow it to drop below 50% of its full charge.  That means that if you have a battery rated for 100 amp/hours, you really only have about 50 amp/hours of usable power.  

I do a lot of off-grid camping and have AGM batteries with a total of 235 amp/hours (of which I can safely use about 117).  I use just about everything in my camper....lights, heater, water pump, refrigerator, TV, etc.  I would say, on average, my battery drops about 10% over a 24 hour period which equates to about 24 amp/hours.  I'm pretty sure that the refrigerator is responsible for most of that power consumption.

I have a 105w rooftop solar panel and a 200w suitcase panel.  If I have very good sun on both panels, I can get back to 100%...but that is rare, especially when camping in the woods.  We usually 'boondock' for four days and I have never come close to the 50% mark.  I would say I may have hit 65% once or twice....which would equate to a consumption of about 82 amp/hours.

Based on your statement above and assuming you have at least a 100 amp/hour battery, I'm guessing you could get 4-5 days in without dropping below 50% of a full charge....especially if you get some sun and use your power wisely.

Below is a chart that I picked up that gives rough power requirements for most of the devices in a camper.  It might help you to determine your potential power needs.  The 'estimated amps' is the draw from the battery when the device is under a load.  So, for instance, my refrigerator draws about 3 amps per hour....but it probably only runs 20-30 minutes per hour.  

I hope this isn't overwhelming and it helps in some way!





 

SLJ

A typical lead acid battery will get you from one campground with power to the next campground with power. Depending on it for more than a day boondocking will most likely drop the battery below 50% and could damage the battery. They are slow to recharge with solar. AGMs are a little bit faster charging and you can use a little more than 50%. A good 100AH Lithium can be used down to 10% (90AH), won't get damaged by using it all, and is under $300 now. Your solar can charge it to 100%. Same hook up as the lead acid battery and just reset the solar converter and your controller inside to lithium. The solar will charge it to 100%.

HappyCamper2024

Thank you both, Basil and SLJ. That's super helpful. That chart is awesome, as is the AGM suggestion. I'm trying to be rational and not let my excitement to get the camper override rational decision making. I also appreciate the non-technical jargon, maybe someday I'll speak RV fluently, but not yet.

Yoshi_TAB

Hi,

Just to add on to the good advice from others..if you don’t have a shunt, it would be a great asset to monitor your usage of both your battery and current draw as you use a 12V device .  Very easy to install.  

ScottG

Welcome @HappyCamper2024. As a "rank newbie" on this forum it's easy to get intimidated by the lengthy discussions of 400aH lithium battery banks, 300W inverters, and the various means to remotely monitor and manage all of your power. If that's your gig, great--there's so much opportunity to tinker and explore and customize these campers you can follow whatever path holds your interest (and fits your budget--haha).

That said the only power upgrades I've made to my T@B in a decade of ownership are a slightly larger (group 31) lead acid battery and a 100W solar suitcase with a cheap controller and a 30' tether. I routinely boondock five or more days with this setup. My current battery is wrapping up its fourth season, and has never seen a voltage below 12.4.

I use power very judiciously, but I do enjoy a quick daily shower, a cold fridge stocked with ice for happy hour (albeit an older 3-way that uses almost no battery), and little bit of lighting for chores and reading as the days get shorter. I use the roof fan a bit, but don't run it overnight as it's a bit of a power hog. Instead I rely on a couple small portable fans that run on D-cells to keep the air moving.

So, the short answer to your question is yes, you likely can boondock for a few days with a your basic setup if you are willing to be creative and conservative with your power use, and you can grab a little sun from time to time to help your batteries out. Frankly, I worry more about overfilling my grey tank than I do depleting my battery.  :-)

HappyCamper2024

Yoshi...I've seen shunts mentioned. Not sure exactly what that is but I think there is some kind of levels tracking system. If not, I'll check.

Scott...that's impressive. We'll look for fan options. Maybe run it briefly to get hot air out and cool air in and then shut it off. Thanks for the encouragement!

pthomas745

The change to lithium is dirt simple.  Measure out the space to see how your new lithium will fit. Buy a new battery and install it.  Change the Victron app to be able to charge a lithium.  Done.  And, last, stop watching YouTube videos about lithium unless it is Will Prices's channel.  Thousands of owners have made this switch.

You should look at your WFCO (that black box where the fuses are) and look to see what exact unit you have.  Most likely it is the "Auto Detect" model that can be an issue to deal with, but not too hard.

The problem with a "stock" 80 amp hour battery with a 2 way fridge is the stock battery will fall behind quickly after a day, since the fridge itself will use 25-35 amp hours over 24 hours, and unless you have a big solar input, after day two you will be scrambling a bit.  Actually...a lot.

There are now lithium batteries with the same "footprint" as the stock Group 24 batteries.  With a 100 amp hour lithium, you will have a little more than twice the available amp hours compared to the stock Group 24.

The chart posted above is from Jenn Grover, and I still have my worn copy of it from years ago when it helped me so much.  Most of the items here are the same, but take the fridge numbers with a little grain of salt, since the newer fridges are probably 30 percent more efficient.  The fridge will still be your largest power user.

You mentioned a portable solar panel.  If you can sort out getting that panel to charge the trailer, it will also be a great boost to your boondocking comfort.

Here is Will Prowse and his review of the LiTime "mini" 100 amp hour battery.  He goes off on a nerd tangent at first, but wait for the saw to come out and he will take the battery apart and show you what you are actually buying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0_YpKKdst8

skibug

As mentioned, a shunt is a simple and key enhancement to your camper. A shunt is a device that sits between your battery's negative terminal and the ground connections of all loads connected to your battery. This allows the shunt to keep track of the remaining capacity in the battery. It is much more accurate than the the LED lights in the camper. 

Yoshi_TAB

Hi @HappyCamper2024,

A shunt is a small device about the size of a large candy bar.  It has two connections.  One side gets connected to the negative post of your battery and the other side gets connected to the wire that would have been connected to the negative battery post (in other words it gets connected in between the negative battery post and the wire.  In this position it can measure all the current flowing through the battery and being used. You can YouTube videos

Horigan

@HappyCamper2024, I think it would be very doable if you're not using the frig.  I don't know what fan is installed in the 2023.  Older T@bs came with a higher current fan, as shown in the table above.  Maybe by 2023 they came with the upgraded fan in the table.  If it's the newer fan, then you should have no problem unless you're deep in the trees with limited sunlight.

Marceline

HappyCamper2024 said:

Hey y'all. We are considering a move from truck camping to a new 2023 "signature series" T@B 320s, "leaf and linen". Price is good, bed is big, seems great. It has the solar panel and tongue of the boondock package but they don't call it that.

Our regular camping includes a lot of time off power. Usually 4-6 nights twice a year, plus whatever other trips we make. We've been truck camping til now and are ready to move inside.

After some research it seems upgrading to lithium might be complicated and I don't want to count on that and don't want to be unhappy with our new purchase "as is". 

With a stock battery, is it realistic to think that we can spend 4-5 nights out with a couple hrs of lighting each night and use of that sweet roof fan for cooling at night? Maybe spray off with the shower once or twice? We can do without fridge, stereo, tv, etc. 

There are some light trees around and weather comes and goes. We'd certainly get some power from solar but not always "middle of an open field with no clouds or trees" solar. We currently use solar for portable batteries and it works well.

The black water is not a concern for this situation, our main camping area has bathrooms we can access and we know we dont plan to rely on the cassette for much more than emergency use.

What do y'all think? As a rank newbie I would really appreciate some input on this.

1. What kind of battery is in the camper -type and amp/hour capacity? Different dealers installed different batteries.

2. What solar panel do you have? 100w? 150w?

3. I assume that you have a 2way fridge.
It's really impossible to give a good answer without this information.

I have a 2013 clamshell that was one of the first Pleasant Valley (nuCamp) built T@Bs that has a 2way (no propane) fridge. It came with an 80ah AGM battery. The seller threw in a 100w portable solar panel. I made do with this for a couple of years. As long as I was in the sunshine, I could get by. I would basically only use the trailer battery for the fridge & water pump. But it's less than optimal and didn't work when I was camped in the redwood trees. I swapped in a 90ah LiON Energy battery 4 years ago.

My advice would be to get at least 100ah lithium battery and swap it out for the current battery. It's an easy swap. You'll just need to reconfigure the solar controller for a lithium battery. For now, don't worry about the converter in the trailer. As someone else suggested, I'd also install a Victron SmartShunt so you can track the power coming in/out of the battery. 

bayernfan

If you want to use power after the sun sets, get a lithium battery.  You can discharge a lithium battery down to 10% charge with no issues (as opposed to 50%). So you get the real stated Ah capacity.

If you have some decent solar, it will do a good job of topping you off in the daytime.  If it doesn't, a portable generator inverter might be something to consider.

To begin, I'd get a 12V 100ah battery and a Victron Smartshunt.  Installation of those two devices is simple and you will be able to monitor usage on the smartphone app.  Make the necessary tweaks to your solar controller (via the app) so that it can efficiently charge and float a lithium battery.  Also, you can pull fuses on the devices you won't be using to prevent phantom power consumption.

You can expand from there:

- additional 12V 100ah batteries (run in parallel)

- swap in a WFCO converter board made to charge lithium

- additional solar (on the roof or a briefcase folt-out system)

ScottG

I wonder how we ever managed camping in tents!  ;-) :-)

Jake_Elwood_and_us

Our last camping trip was in a shady spot with no electric. Our nearly 4 year old stock non lithium batteries are probably getting tired as our voltage/ capacity has been dropping by nearly 1/2 each day. I was using our Honda 2200 generator to recharge until the charge cord starting smoking and failed. I was ready to call it quits a day early when my wife says "can't we just move the food into the ice chest and forgo all Tab electric?" I was like, what? return to the old ways?. That's when I knew I had gone soft.

I will be repairing the charge cord, ordering a solar suitcase for additional solar charging, replacing the batteries with lithium and generally keeping the Tab in tip top condition.

That being said, if the Tab were to start experiencing total failure of hard to repair items or ridiculously expensive repairs I have considered abandoning those items and just enjoying the comfort of a good bed and and a dry environment. At minimum I would hope for water flow, waste water tanks, cooking stove and lights. I can go with all else if needed. Since we cook outside almost all the time we could probably go without even those items listed above.

MPuyot

Hi there - I too am a "newbie", having just bought a 2021 TAB 320S Boondocks from a very nice couple.  We picked it up last week in Utah, and then hit Bryce, Grand Canyon and Sedona on our way back home to SoCalifornia.  During this maiden camping trip, we learned a lot.  Went great, but the one issue is we got into trouble with our battery.  We dry camped 2 days in Bryce - no problem.  Got to Grand Canyon and in just 5 hours, our lights started to flicker and fridge acted strange so we shut everything off.  Next day we found a place to plug in to fully charge and then spend a couple nights in Sedona dry camping with no issue.  SO, it appears I only have 2 days of dry camping with our electrical usage profile, and neither the trickle charge from the car while driving, nor the stock Boondock solar panels on the roof are enough to recharge me. We used the fridge, lights, and the water pump a few times.  No Alde, AC or Microwave.  Did watch a movie through the Jensen to the TV a couple of times. I've been reading threads on this forum to try to understand what we did wrong and what capabilities I should expect from my new rig, and this thread is as close as I've gotten - thanks HappyCamper24.  However, i have a couple questions specific to my rig that I hope all can help me with:
1) Previous owner told me he didnt think the rig had a lithium battery.  I looked at it as see a sticker from "Sterling", and it says homelike like "deep ___", but the rest is impossible to read.  Does anyone one know what 2021 Tab 320 came with?  I called NuCamp and they said in 2021 they would ship the campers to dealers and the dealer would decide what to install, so I may have to track down the dealer.   Anyone have a Sterling battery?
My assumption is that its just a lead acid battery (what is a AGM, and could my Sterling be an AGM?), from the thread above, perhaps its just 80 amp hour (???)
2) I finally installed the Vitron App and can see when I left the previous owners home, the battery was 14.5v.  After the first 2 days or dry camping, looks like the battery dropped to 7.1v.  Yikes!  Looks like we took it down below 50% - did I perhaps damage it?  After plugging it back in for a day, it went right back to 14.5v and has not dropped below 11.5v after dry camping another 2 days (but being more frugal and careful).  All this seems consistent with the use tables and expectations I read in this thread for a lead acid (or AGM) type battery.  Seem right?  (the thread speaks more in amp hours as the key unit of measure, not volts, but I dont really know what my battery's amp hour spec is).
3) SO, given all this, I am thinking I need to switch to a lithium battery.  I am a mechanical engineer by education, but rusty on my electronics.   My question is can I simply disconnect and remove the current battery, and replace it with a 230 aH Lithium?  I prefer to have just one battery and I think I have room for it in front tongue storage bin, but didnt know if adding that much more capacity meant I needed to also change other electrical component simply due to the 230 aH?  
4) On needing to change my WFCO (I dont have the newer model that auto detects), I have read different things.  I understand the newer model is better in that it will detect my new battery is a lithium and will then change the recharging profile to fully charge it.  However, I have also read that its not really necessary to upgrade the WFCO if you have the factory solar panel (I do) because you can simply change the "solar converter" settings to lithium and it will then charge the new lithium battery to 100%.   If that is the case, why spend the $ to upgrade the WFCO?  Also, is the Victron App the way one changes the settings to lithium to get the full charge?
5) On the suggesting of adding a "shunt" to get more accurate reading of battery status, isn't the Victron App accurate on battery status?  Does the shunt add capability I dont get on the Victron app already?  Just thinking I dont really want to add yet more "stuff" if what I have is getting me 90% there.  Please comment.

Sorry for the long note, but newbie with lots of questions and this group seems to have a lot of experience.  Cheers, Mike

pthomas745

Welcome to the Forums!  The "stock" battery that came with your trailer is "most likely" an 80 amp hour, Group 24 battery, lead acid battery.  An "AGM" battery is simply a different design of "lead acid battery".  If you can, get us a photo and we can try to sort out what exactly the size of your battery is.

The question about your battery usage and the fast "draining" of your battery can get complicated.  You don't really know how this battery has been treated.  A lead acid battery will last longest (has more charge and discharge cycles) if an owner is careful not to let it drop below the "50 percent state of charge." If it does drop below 50 percent, it should not be allowed to stay "low" for a substantial amount of time.  So, you have a new to you camper...but you don't have any idea of how the battery might have been treated.

The other issue with a lead acid battery is the battery "readings" you might get for voltage.  When you looked at the battery monitor with the trailer plugged in, the 14.5 voltage was only the voltage coming into the battery, not the actual battery reading.  The other readings you mention (the "7.1") if the trailer battery switch was on......and something was running in the trailer, like the fan or the fridge was cycled on, was also a "false capacity" reading.  A battery "In Use" will always read lower than actual. A lead acid battery being charged, by any source, will always read higher than actual.  The "rested battery" issue trips up lots of owners.  (On top of Electrical engineering, and mechanical engineering, we also have to learn a little chemical engineering!). 

This thread explains the "rested battery readout". It also discusses how a "'shunt" avoids this false capacity issue with a rested battery.  For a lithium battery, a shunt is very useful, because of the "charge curve" of lithium voltage.  This is even harder to explain.  A shunt simply "counts" the amp hours going in and out of the battery, giving a fairly accurate number of amp hours you have left.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13955/interpreting-the-victron-solar-controller-app-after-dry-camping

Basically, yes, you can simply replace the battery with a lithium, set the Victron app to charge it correctly with solar, and be done.  If you have the older WFCO with the simple "lithium switch", you just have to set the switch correctly.  Look inside your WFCO for the model number: if the model number ends in "LIS" that is the lithium switch model.  Many owners with older WFCO models simply let the solar do the job, and have not changed the converter.  Keep in mind any of the WFCO's will "charge a lithium battery."  But, it will only charge it to about 85 percent.

So: get a good look at the battery.  Sort out how you "measured" the battery status.  Remember to turn off the battery switch, and if the sun is up, find the setting to turn off the Solar Charger on the settings page of the App.  Then sort out the battery voltage.

And, we love questions here!

pthomas745

@MPuyot This is a "lead acid state of charge chart". When you do get your "rested" battery reading, the voltage here will give you a "general" idea of the status of your battery.

Also: the combo of the two way fridge (which we are assuming you have) and the "stock" 80 amp hour battery that only has 40 amp hours "available" before you hit that 50 percent level, has always been an issue.  That battery and fridge combo is difficult to deal with for many new owners.

MPuyot

Thank you PThomas745 for the excellent reply. I will take a few photos tomorrow of the battery (its in a black container in the front storage bin, bolted down and fully connected, so hard to see anything but the top of it) to see if we can get to the bottom of what I have, but I am certain its the base model that was offered in 2021. Will also get the WFCO model number, and will also study the article on measuring battery status correctly.  BTW, when one says "50% state of charge", sounds like its not 50% of the initial 12v or 14v, and in fact most of the thread speaks in terms of % of amp hours used.  Why is that?  On the fridge, when you say "2 way", I assume that means it runs either off the battery or from shore power, but not propane, correct?  That would be my fridge - it does not run on propane.  Finally, just to confirm, your saying I can just buy the 230 aH Lithium battery, and simply connect it where the current one is, and it will work fine.  Nothing else to replace (even though I'm going from an 80aH lead acid to a 230ah Li battery), just change the Victron settings and if my WFCO has a "lithium switch", flip it to that.   Have it right?   Thanks again.  I'll start looking into which 230aH Lithium to buy (the LiTime 12V 230aH LiFePO4, or the Battle Born version of the same).  Cheers, Mike 

pthomas745

The issue you will have with the 230 ah lithium battery is the size: it may not fit in your "space" where the battery is now.  So, measure closely.  There are now lithium batteries that are the Group 24 size mentioned above...two of those properly wired up may fit. The Will Prowse video above goes over the LiTime "mini" battery options. 

The "lead acid" state of charge chart above gives the "rested" voltage readings and percentages.  With a simple voltage meter (multimeter, Victron, etc) a rested battery reading could give you a reasonable idea of your battery status.  So, if you got your battery off and no charging coming in...and your battery reading came in at 12.5 for example, you have "90 percent" of your battery left.  But....remember that a lead acid battery will have a "longer life" if you don't run it below 50 percent state of charge.  So, you might think of this of having 40 percent of power remaining to use.  You can turn those "amp hours" into the basic percentages of voltage.  An 80 amp hour battery, if you can only use 50 percent of it, means you have 40 amp hours to use.  So, each 10 percent of voltage drop would equal 8 amp hours.  These are reasonable, but sort of crude guesses.  Once I got used to how my trailer handled power, I could make these "guesses" pretty well and plan my power use.    A shunt, however, does the amp hour counting for you, and is much more accurate.  For lithium batteries, a shunt is much easier to deal with, since the lithium "charging curve" has some quirks that make it not as easy to make assumptions based on simply voltage readings. 

Yes: a two way fridge is battery and shore power.  Three way fridge includes a propane option.

manyman297

@MPuyot check out LiTime’s mini 12v battery. It’s very small with similar specs of a group 24 battery. Two wired in parallel would be perfect for your space requirements.

tteam

We have a 2020 320s with lead acid battery, and a solar on the camper and a portable Zamp 40 watt solar that hooks in to the battery. We generally only use the lights and that is sparingly. We set up Luci lights (the main one we use are string lights that work really well as the line spreads out the light when setup in the cabin, long enough to go from front cabinet along one side and along back cabinets) to use at night when settling down and read before going to sleep. With the solar, and in sites that receive a bit, we seem to have decent luck. One night we turned on the heat, but I am not sure it ever came on since it clouded up and the overnight and early morning temps stayed about 10 degrees warmer than forecasted. High 40's rather than high 30's. We tend to find the camper stays only about 2 to 3 degrees warmer than outside temperature when camping without heat.

MPuyot

ok pthomas745, it took a few pics of my setup.  Looks like the battery is a Sterling 24RV-90 (pic below).  Do you think this means a group size 24, 90aH lead acid or AGM battery?  BTW, there is another note on the battery stating to put the green wires to + and the white wire to -.  What are the green and white wire for do you suppose (photo attached).  On the WFCO, I dont see "LIS" on the model number.  Does this mean I DONT have a "lithium switch", and hence cant set my converter to for a lithium battery?  Even so, I understand from this thread that that is not a major issue because my solar can be set to lithium and it will charge the battery to 100% - correct?  On getting Litime lithium, I see I have about 18" by 12" in the front tub.   The 230aH Lithium is 19" by 7", so it likely will not fit.  So, I am now thinking I will just start with a LiTime 12V LiFePO4 100aH battery.  That will fit for sure, and it will at least double by dry camp days from 2 days to 4 days if I understand correctly.  That would be more than enough for us, as we are looking for 3 days max of dry camp time.  Sound about right?   My only question now is do I just unscrew the wires from the current battery (disconnect the + or the - line first?  Connect the green and white wires as well as per the current setup?) and simply put those wires on the same + and - lines of the new battery?  I assume I need to turn off the battery connection in the front box, and also turn off solar charging so no current in going to the battery lines, correct?   Is that it, other than to set my Victron to Lithium?  Should I use plastic battery box that is currently housing my Sterling battery, or is it not necessary?  Thank you again for your help!

pthomas745

Great pictures.  Save your wiring photos for your new battery. I can't find anything on the web that describes the specs for this battery, except "Sterling" is a small company in Idaho.  Most likely, they buy the batteries wholesale, slap a label on them, and that is it.  What the "90" actually means is a mystery.  Normally, a Group 24 battery is an 80 amp hour battery, but in recent years, we have seen Group 24 batteries with as little as 65. 

The two sets of battery cables: for the Tab's the negative battery cables are the white cables.  The "green" with the fuse holders are the positive cables.  There are two sets of cables: one set is for the trailer.  The other set goes to wherever the "solar port" (an "SAE" port) is on your trailer, most likely on the driver's side of the trailer near the front tub.  See those two plastic "tubes" that hold the sets of wires?  One tube will go to the "junction box" just behind the tub, which sends battery power to the trailer.  The other tube will go to the SAE "solar" port. 

You are correct about your WFCO.  A non-lithium converter.  Your solar controller can be set up to fully charge your battery. 

If you are measuring for the new battery: are the measurements you gave the measurements of the battery box? Or the space without the battery box?  If you have time, and are not planning on towing the trailer anywhere, try removing the battery and the box and taking measurements with the space cleared out. If you don't want to deal with all that, the "Group 24" Litime battery should fit in that box you have now.

Turn off the battery switch, and remove the negative battery cables first, then the positive.  Don't let those cables flop around too much.  Try not to drop tools, etc.  I usually have a towel or something over the battery and only uncover the terminal I'm working on, and keep the cables out of the way.  (Lots of web help on this sort of thing.)  While you are in there, I would also take a look at those fuses in the holders at the battery.  They should be 30 amp fuses in each.

You will be improving your available battery amp hours from "about" 40 to "about" 90. So, that makes at least 2 days easily (based on fridge use).  If you are helping your charging with getting the solar panels in the sun as much as you can, your solar panels can help you keep up with the power use.  Rinse and repeat with solar keeping up with the trailer's power usage. 

MPuyot

Excellent pthomas745!  I just bought the LiTime Group 24 110AH Lithium from Amazon.  Should be here in a few days  and I cant wait to install it.  When you say "turn off the battery switch", you mean the red switch in the first photo I sent, correct? In that photo, it is in the off position, correct?  I also should turn off the solar charging in the Victron App, no, so that nothing comes in from the solar panels.  After doing all that, I will disconnect my current battery (no need to keep it, right?), and then simply drop in the new one with the wiring exactly as the old one.  I would connect the positive side first, then the negative, correct?  Once I have that, can I use the Victron App to see how well charged the new battery is?   Or should I take it to charger and charge it overnight?   Thanks for hand-holding me through this....its my first upgrade so I am trying to be very careful and not mess anything up.  Cheers, Mike

pthomas745

The battery should come to you with a decent charge on it.  It really should just be "plug and play".

The hangups here, sometimes, are the funky way the Victron app and the bluetooth in the Victron app react when batteries are disconnected.  The "by the book" method to connect the solar controller is: connect the battery to the solar controller first....let the controller sense the battery charge...and then connect the solar panels.  There is no "easy" way to reset the controller, since these days, controllers get a little bit of power from the solar panels, and also power from the battery.  The easiest way, it seems, is to pull the fuse at the solar controller to stop power coming in from the panel.  Then connect the battery cables...see how the Victron reads the battery, and then replace the fuse for the solar panels.  (Someone on the FB page is going through this tonight...the Victrons are great devices, but their user-friendliness leads a lot to be desired!)

After you get the battery in...and these connections made, we can show you how to set your Victron app for the proper charging parameters.  Just a few easy settings changes.  There are a couple of good guides.  Hold on to the LiTime manual that has the various charging parameters.

PS: yes, that battery switch is the "off" position.  Should be easy to tell: if you are not on shore power, nothing will work with the switch off.

MPuyot

BTW, I finally did hear back from Sterling Battery on what a Sterling 24RV-90 is.  "Our 24RV-90 is a 75AH, Calcium, Maintenance Free Deep Cycle battery".   Footnotes says its an AGM.  Anyhow, thought id post this here in case others have this battery as well.  

Marceline

MPuyot said:

Excellent pthomas745!  I just bought the LiTime Group 24 110AH Lithium from Amazon.  Should be here in a few days  and I cant wait to install it.  When you say "turn off the battery switch", you mean the red switch in the first photo I sent, correct? In that photo, it is in the off position, correct?  I also should turn off the solar charging in the Victron App, no, so that nothing comes in from the solar panels.  After doing all that, I will disconnect my current battery (no need to keep it, right?), and then simply drop in the new one with the wiring exactly as the old one.  I would connect the positive side first, then the negative, correct?  Once I have that, can I use the Victron App to see how well charged the new battery is?   Or should I take it to charger and charge it overnight?   Thanks for hand-holding me through this....it’s my first upgrade so I am trying to be very careful and not mess anything up.  Cheers, Mike

One thing to note: 
A lithium battery doesn’t have to be put in a vented battery box. I ended up putting mine in a plastic file folder box. 

MPuyot

Thank you Marceline - I actually have a plastic battery box that came with my Sterling battery (see the first pic I posted).  If my new LiTime fits in there, I was just planning to reuse it.   Seem ok?    

pthomas745 - my new battery arrive!   Essentially one day free shipping from Amazon - amazing!  I'm looking at the manual now and it say it comes 30% to 50% charged from the factory and that I should fully charge it before use.  I assume I can simply install it, and then put in on my 30A outlet in the garage to charge (ie dont need to charge it BEFORE putting in the trailer, as I dont have a way to do that) - correct?  On your point of first removing the fuse from the solar controller, not sure I fully follow (point me to another thread if this is covered elsewhere).  Sounds like removing the fuse disconnects the panels essentially, correct?   I attach a photo of what I believe is the solar controller and where the fuse is.  Can you please confirm I have it right?  I did notice even those my battery is OFF, the blue LED (labeled BULK - what does this mean?) on the solar controller would blink on about every 6 seconds - I assume this means the is current from the panels coming in, correct?  Finally, when I reconnect, I connect positive first, then negative, correct?  BTW, the LiTime manual devotes a page to wire sizing and cautions to be sure the wiring is big enough.   Can I assume my wiring is already good enough, or do I need to be more careful?  The wires to the battery are not the heavy gauge of my car, but they were being used previously for a 75AH battery and how I will have a 100AH battery.  Thoughts?

 

pthomas745

That is the solar controller.  And, that is the fuse for the cables for the solar panels.  Note the slots the wires to into are marked "PV".  Victron marks them this way, it means "PhotoVoltaic".  Every other controller just marks these as "Solar" or "Panel" or uses an icon. 

The Blue flashing light means something like "not enough solar input to begin charging".  So, the panel might be shaded, or it is dark out, etc.

If you were installing this solar controller for the first time, the proper procedure would be to connect the battery to the controller first, and then the solar panels.  In this case, we will be completely removing power from the controller.  When the battery is installed, you can reinstall the fuse at the battery for the controller first, and then reinstall the solar panel fuse. We are hoping to avoid the controller getting hung up or confused about the new battery. 

After we make sure the controller is working (bluetooth, etc) then it will be time to set the parameters for the controller for it to properly charge your new lithium.

I get lost on wire gauges, honestly.  But: the standard wiring you have on the battery cables has been adequate for the Tab's for years.

MPuyot

thanks.  On the blue light, yes, I have a cover over the trailer so the panels are being blocked.  I did have one more question on what you wrote - "When the battery is installed, you can reinstall the fuse at the battery for the controller first, and then reinstall the solar panel fuse. We are hoping to avoid the controller getting hung up or confused about the new battery.".  Dont recall us discussing removing the fuse from the battery side to the controller.  Is that the fuse in the battery tub?  I assume the fuse we discussed in the photo above is the fuse from the solar controller to the panels.  Do I have this correct?  I'll wait for confirmation before doing the install.  THX>