Electric Tow Vehicle (ETV)

CatDaddy

I'm brand new to the forum and to towing. I'm in the process of buying a used 2022 TAB 320S. I plan to tow it behind my 2023 Volkswagen ID.4 Pro S Plus AWD electric car.  It is a so-called BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle, meaning it has no other power source than the battery). It has a towing capacity of 2,700 when towing a trailer with brakes.  It has a factory connector for connecting an electric brake controller. 

I'm wondering if anybody has towed a Nucamp teardrop behind their EV.  I'd love to hear what their experience has been like, what TV they're using and what brake controller they have.

The current plan is to buy a Curt Triflex NEXT brake controller (Curt PN 51146) and the vehicle specific wiring harness (Curt PN 51528). I chose this solution mostly because it is the only plug-and-play option I could find.

Does anybody have any advice?

pthomas745

Not sure if we have ever seen any ID4 mentions in various groups and threads.  We do have a lot of Tesla threads and comments.  See if any of these threads may help you work out the ID4 capabilities.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+site:tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com&client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=e65cb097fc4051f1&sxsrf=ADLYWIL_oJC38AUpwFdIDTFRLXRf0l-4Fw:1729273753135&ei=mZ8SZ9fxB93dkPIPsZqlkQU&ved=&uact=5&oq=tesla+site:tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiJnRlc2xhIHNpdGU6dGFiLXJ2LnZhbmlsbGFjb21tdW5pdHkuY29tSJIsULcLWLkkcAF4AJABAJgBT6ABrweqAQIyMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCAKACAJgDAIgGAZIHAKAHsQc&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

Bill&Suze

Hi @CatDaddy, I'm please to read of another EV driver looking to tow a T@B. We have a Kia EV9 Land trim that we use to haul a T@B 400 Boondock. The car has tow capacity of 5,000 lb., has 379 HP and 516 lb.-ft. of torque, and tows the 400 with plenty of power. Compare the Kia power stats to your ID.4 for comparison.

We have done about 4 or 5 trips after buying the T@B in early July and find that efficiency is cut in half and our safe range is around 100-110 miles between charges, traveling at 60 mph. Weather and wind are factors that can cut that a bit. The charging map is slowly but constantly being filled in and we've had no trouble being able to charge when needed. We choose campgrounds with 30 and 50 amp service and are able to use a portable Level 2 charger to connect to 50 amp to charge overnight. There are some campgrounds that don't have sufficient electric infrastructure to support this but by and large we find that most are robust enough. Some have even anticipated EV campers using their campgrounds and now charge a modest fee like $15 - $25 to charge. After a day of driving involving charging stops it's nice to get in a free or very inexpensive full charge overnight.

I bought and installed a Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake controller that is mounted on the camper tongue frame. The camper wiring plugs into one end of the controller unit and the unit's wiring cable then plugs into the Kia's 7-pin outlet. A bluetooth handheld control plugs into a standard 12V cigarette port in the car's dash and communicates wirelessly with the control box on the camper. The handheld device allows for setting gain (camper braking power) and has more forceful override settings for harder braking if needed. So far the unit has functioned very well. One nice aspect is that any tow vehicle can tow the camper as long as the driver has the handheld control which can be synced to the required gain setting for that vehicle. Right now my son is on a trip towing with his Rivian.

Sharon_is_SAM

@CatDaddy - you should take a close look at your TV payload as well as your TV weight ratings.  General consensus of 320 owners is that you need a minimum of 3500 #.   The 2022 model dry weight is 1950.  After you add gear to your TV and TaB, you will not leave much of a margin.  Remember, it’s not just towing on the flat.  You need to be able to quickly stop the ton+ behind you.

d_v

We tow our 400 with our Lightning and our Model Y. It’s not the power or braking, it’s your speed and the wind which will limit your range. The Y can do about 115 miles and the Lightning ER can do about 140, both going around 50-55mph. If you go faster your range drops fast, if you have a headwind you need to go slower to compensate. You really need to know your stops, your consumption and your available battery. If it’s 100 miles between chargers you need to watch your consumption because if you don’t make it there are very few options. Charging to 100% takes a lot longer than to 80%, but when you are towing you need 100% a lot more often. Not sure where in the country you are but when we have used CCS with the Lightning the chargers are crowded and unreliable… you’ll probably need to unhitch every stop. I prefer the superchargers by far and there are some trips that can only be made with the Y because there are not chargers the Lightning can use. There are also some times when there are 16 open chargers and I can block 2-3 off to pull thru charge and not worry about keeping another driver from charging. 

We use the Curt bluetooth brake controller with the Y, the included one with the Ford. Regen does 99% of the braking. 

Also be sure your campsite has 50a service, that way you can charge your EV while at the campsite and leave at close to 100% if you need to. 30a won’t cut it because it is 120v and a mobile charger won’t do more than 12a at 120v. 

bandr1tnj

@CatDaddy - we just got our gently used 2019 T@b400 in May and it has a Prodigy RF brake controller installed on the trailer frame and comes with a wired remote that previous owner connected to a 12v plug inside his SUV. I’ve never used it coz my 2022 Rivian R1T has a built-in brake controller which I hardly use it since brake regen is good enough most of the time. As for range, I usually get about 300 miles on a full charge but drops to 160-170 miles when I tow at 65mph.  Works for me coz my back can’t handle much more than 150 miles before I need to stop and stretch. Be prepared to drop the camper when charging coz not many pull-throughs where I am. Access to the Tesla SuperChargers is a game changer for us. Good luck!

CatDaddy

Thanks everybody for their helpful comments. I quit the VW ID.4 forum because of too many snarky comments. It's really great to find a place that is friendlier.

I will try to address all of the questions:

I'm not too worried about my ID.4 having sufficient power and torque to handle the 320S Bootcamp, but here are the specs:

Total HP: 295 BHP total from front and rear motors. It's a dual motor EV.

Front Motor Torque: 99 lb-ft

Rear Motor Torque: 229 lb-ft

GVWR: 6041 lbs (2740 kg)

Payload: 949 lb (435 kg)

Towing Capacity Braked: 2700 lg (1224 kg)

Towing Capacity Unbraked: 1650 lb (748 kg)

Presumably, one can add the torgue from the two motors to get 328 lb-ft of torgue.  There isn't much information about towing with the ID.4 available online, but nobody is complaining about power or torgue.  There are lots of concerns about range. 

Thanks for the links @ptthomas745. I didn't find some of those on my own.

I'm not terribly worried about the payload weight. I typically travel with just my two adventure cats, Lewis & Clark. They're heavy but not that heavy...

I looked at the Curt Prodigy and one other inline wireless brake controller, but opted for a wired controller. I was worried that wiring would end up dragging on bumps because of the way the 7 pin connector is mounted on the TV.

I ended up installing a Curt Triflex NEXT brake controller (Curt PN 51146) and the vehicle specific wiring harness (Curt PN 51528). The hardest part of the installation was figuring out how to remove the hood (bonnet) release lever so I could access the OEM plug in the kick-panel near the dead pedal. If it is appropriate and of interest, I can post photos of the installation.  Once I got access to the OEM brake controller plug, everything went pretty smoothly. The OEM plug is NOT where the Curt instructions say it is, BTW. 

We (the cats and I) live in Portland, Oregon.  The charging infrastructure is better than average I think (much better than in Silicon Valley!), but it isn't that great.  There are plenty of places that I probably cannot get to with my EV and trailer, which is disappointing.  Surprisingly, the Oregon coast is practically a charging desert. A company called EVCS has a few DCFCs near the coast and Electrify America has one DCFC in Astoria, but most of the chargers at the coast are Tesla destination chargers associated with lodging. I have a NACS to J1772 adapter for use in emergencies, but I haven't tried it yet. I may have to buy a different tow vehicle if I really get into this trailer camping thing.

The cats and I recently returned from a 3 week roadtrip to Banff in the EV.  With careful planning, I made it work, but I don't think it would be acceptable to most people. While we were traveling, I paid attention to how trailer-friendly the charging stations were; they aren't.  The only station I saw that was sort of trailer-friendly was one in Sutherlin, OR.  It had a gravel lot adjacent to the charger.  If you were willing to off-road a bit you could pull-through.  I don't relish the idea of dropping the trailer every ~100 miles so I can charge.  How hard is that?

While traveling this summer, I saw my first EV9 at an Electrify Canada station in Canmore, Alberta.  That is an absolute beast!! I also saw a guy with a First Gen Rivian R1S Four-Motor towing a rather huge Airstream.  He said he was only getting about a hundred miles of range, but he had just come over the Blue Mountains so it was a tough challenge.  He had dropped the trailer to charge. I also saw a Rivian R1S towing a more modest-sized Airstream that just jumped a curb behind the charger to get close enough to plug-in without dropping the trailer.  Clearly, chargers are not configured for trailers.  Even the flagship Electrify America station in downtown San Francisco was not conducive to charging with a trailer. If you ever get a chance, I recommend visiting that charging station (on Harrison St). 20 stalls; lounge, bathroom, conference room and a full-time security guard.  Outstanding!

I asked about using the 50A shorepower to charge my EV at a campground at the Oregon coast. Boy, was that a touchy subject; the person at the desk visibly bristled.  What's that all about?

VW did not provide a L2 charging cable (portable EVSE) with the 2023 ID.4s but I bought one designed for a Volvo that will provide L1 and L2 @ 40A charging.  How do you work campground charging? Plug the trailer in during the day to top off the batteries and charge the car at night or the other way around?

Newbie Question: The Curt Tri-Flex NEXT brake controller has settings for "Gain" and "Load". I think I understand what the gain setting does but I don't get what the load setting does.  I couldn't find an explanation anywhere.  How does gain differ from load?

Should I post photos of the brake controller installation?  Here's the final product. The controller is double-sided taped to the fuse panel door; no holes. 

d_v

“ I asked about using the 50A shorepower to charge my EV at a campground at the Oregon coast. Boy, was that a touchy subject; the person at the desk visibly bristled.  What's that all about?”

I have not had any issues at State Parks. I plug the 50a in for the EV and the 30a for the camper at the same time and turn down the charging amps to 25-30 if the EV has that option. 

I have heard KOA has said no to charging EVs, but we don’t stay there. I think a charge for charging is reasonable but most non-EV people think you are using way more energy than you are. It should be a max $20 fee for trucks and $15 for cars.

CatDaddy

The places you've stayed at have both 30A and 50A receptacles on the pedestal?

Bill&Suze

@CatDaddy, I think it takes a certain sense of adventure to consider towing a camper with an EV, given the variability of charging opportunities in this country. You can make it work in general by planning your trip with charging locations pre-selected. I use A Better Route Planner and Plugshare all the time. The EV9's on-board route planning will select charging sites but cross checking with ABRP and Plugshare, and also EA, ChargePoint and EVgo apps for travel here in the east has been reliable for us. The car seems to do a good job of monitoring in real time the charging locations we've set as destinations and it reports number of chargers open, in use or down.

With enough practice you'll develop a routine for unhitching in order to charge if that's necessary, which is probably more often than not. You'll quickly learn the step you need to take to unhitch and later hitch up. The charging stops are good times to eat something, use restroom facilities, enter your next charging destination in the car's navigation and take a minute to take note of Plan B chargers just in case. Charging stops are not a waste of time.

At campgrounds that offer both 30 and 50 amp service you'd plug the camper into 30 amp and your portable Level 2 charger into the 50 amp outlet to take advantage of its 40 amp output. I guess it's debatable whether you should announce when entering a campground that it's your intent to use 50 amp service to charge overnight. I'd like to think that the one owner who bristled when asked is an outlier. I've never seen that reaction. Some staff recognize the EV and will tell you what their policy is and whether a fee is due to charge.

Here's what I found regarding your Curt's gain and load settings:
"The GAIN setting on the Curt TriFlex NEXT Trailer Brake Controller # C24VV has to do with the max "strength" of the brakes, while the LOAD setting is how aggressive the brakes get to that GAIN setting.
So, to simplify things, GAIN is the braking strength while LOAD is how quickly the brakes get there.
Since everyone has different preferences in how their trailer brakes perform there aren't any hard and fast settings for different truck/trailer combinations. The best rule of thumb to go by is to put the settings in the middle and then drive around an empty parking lot to test how the trailer brakes perform and adjust them to your liking."

CatDaddy

That's extremely helpful, thanks!  You're description of "gain" and "load" are just what I needed. Wish the manual just said that!

I've done extensive EV travel, so I know the process. I find ABRP to be unreliable. I've had it plan routes that make absolutely no sense. For that reason, I've been using PlugShare for the past ten years. It's not perfect but I've found ways to make it work. The desktop version of PlugShare shows the elevation of your planned route and the stops. That really helps when traveling in the mountains. If this functionality exists in the phone app, I haven't found it. For that reason, I plan my trips at home.  FWIW, I don't think any of the EV route planners are ready for prime time. 

On a mountainous route with no trailer, my comfortable range is around 180 miles.  On the flat it's more like 220 miles. If it's really steep, then I plan for stops around 150 miles or less.  If the trailer cuts those ranges in half, then, there are many places in the Pacific NW that I cannot reach with my current TV when pulling a trailer. I guess I could reach them, but I couldn't get back... :-)

I agree that charging time isn't wasted but if I have to add 15 minutes to unhook and 15 minutes to reconnect, then a 40 minute charging session turns into 70 minutes.  If I have to do that every 100 miles, then it will take forever to get anywhere. 

I've been trying to get Rivian to tell me what they think the range will be on the R2 but they're not talking... An EV9 or R1S would probably solve my problem as well. 

Grumpy_G

CatDaddy said:

I asked about using the 50A shorepower to charge my EV at a campground at the Oregon coast. Boy, was that a touchy subject; the person at the desk visibly bristled.  What's that all about?

Because the electrical infrastructure is not designed for many continuous high loads. That's already becoming a problem with RVs becoming more and more power hungry, the voltage drops and then selfish RVers use autotransformers which makes the problem even worse. 

Also, the campgrounds pays for the electricity. If their bill goes up from EV charging they'll have to raise prices. 

CatDaddy

There has been an issue with some of the less expensive NEMA 50-14 receptacles catching fire when used to plug-in EVSEs. For that reason, some localities require L2 EVSEs to be hardwired.  I would expect an RV park to have high-quality NEMA 14-50 receptacles because they are plugged and plugged so often.  Guess that isn't so. 

I didn't realize that some people are using autotransformers.  That does indeed make the problem worse!

I have no issue with paying a reasonable fee for charging my EV.  That only seems fair.  Given that RV parks are really the ONLY option to charge and EV in some locations, I would think RV parks would welcome the additional revenue.

Towhee

In campgrounds with 50 and 30 amp charging we plug our model Y into the 50 and the camper into the 30.  If only 30 and 15 we use adapters to plug the y into the 30 and the camper into the 15.  Car is charged by the next morning.  Only one power hungry device at a time in the Tab.

Bill&Suze

My son just returned from camping with our T@B 400 towing with his quad motor Rivian R1T. It looks like he can comfortably go about 125-130 miles between charges. Granted, he didn't have big elevation changes to deal with going from Portland, Maine to Acadia Natl. Park. I've found that a comfortable range towing the 400 with our EV9 is 100-110 miles. Keep in mind that the T@B 320 you are getting is a lot lighter and sits a bit lower than the 400 so your range with either of these EVs will be considerably better.

CatDaddy

That's super helpful, Bill&Suze! When you say that the 400 sits lower, are you referring to the ground clearance or the overall height? I know the 400 is taller, but I didn't think it had more ground clearance.  I think I'd be happier with a 360 or a 400 but I don't think my VW ID.4 could safely tow either one. 

CatDaddy

Towhee said:

In campgrounds with 50 and 30 amp charging we plug our model Y into the 50 and the camper into the 30.  If only 30 and 15 we use adapters to plug the y into the 30 and the camper into the 15.  Car is charged by the next morning.  Only one power hungry device at a time in the Tab.

I don't think my charging cable has an adapter for a 30A receptacle. It's only setup for the NEMA 14-50 (L2 @ 50A) or a NEMA 6 (L1).  How do you plug into the 30A receptacle?

Bill&Suze

CatDaddy said:

Towhee said:

In campgrounds with 50 and 30 amp charging we plug our model Y into the 50 and the camper into the 30.  If only 30 and 15 we use adapters to plug the y into the 30 and the camper into the 15.  Car is charged by the next morning.  Only one power hungry device at a time in the Tab.

I don't think my charging cable has an adapter for a 30A receptacle. It's only setup for the NEMA 14-50 (L2 @ 50A) or a NEMA 6 (L1).  How do you plug into the 30A receptacle?

@Towhee plugs his EV into a campground's 50 amp outlet if one is available to charge the Tesla, and plugs his camper into the adjacent 30 amp outlet, which you will also do once you have your 320S and its supplied power cable.

When you refer to your charging cable, are you referring to your portable Level 2 cable to be used for charging your EV? It would plug into a campground's 50 amp 4 prong outlet similar to this:


If your portable charger has 4 prongs you're all set. If it has 3 prongs, as mine does, you'll need a 3 to 4 prong adapter like this:



The 4 prong plug goes into the campground 50 amp 4 prong outlet. I hope all this is clear.

Bill&Suze

CatDaddy said:

That's super helpful, Bill&Suze! When you say that the 400 sits lower, are you referring to the ground clearance or the overall height? I know the 400 is taller, but I didn't think it had more ground clearance.  I think I'd be happier with a 360 or a 400 but I don't think my VW ID.4 could safely tow either one. 

I said that the 320S sits a bit lower. If it's not the Boondock it probably has lower ground clearance and I think that its overall height is lower. I'm not bothering to check its specs. At any rate, the frontal area presented to the wind while underway is less than the 400, so not as much drag.

Edit: You're right, your ID.4 tow limit of 2700 lb. is just about the dry weight of the 360 and also under the dry weight of the even heavier 400. You'll need a TV with at least a 5000 lb. limit to handle either one. 

CatDaddy

When you refer to your charging cable, are you referring to your portable Level 2 cable to be used for charging your EV? It would plug into a campground's 50 amp 4 prong outlet similar to this:


If your portable charger has 4 prongs you're all set. If it has 3 prongs, as mine does, you'll need a 3 to 4 prong adapter like this:

I was referring to my portable EVSE which supports L1 and L2 charging but only has adapters for the NEMA 14-50 receptacle (4 pin) and the NEMA 5 receptacle (standard houshold). It does not come with a NEMA TT (3 pin, 110V, 30A) adapter.  I've never seen a portable EVSE with an adapter for the NEMA 11 receptacle. I'm an electrical engineer. I do not feel comfortable using an off-the-shelf adapter for the 30A circuit. There have been too many fires caused by poor NEMA 14-50 receptacles and I don't trust adapters not made by the EVSE manufacturer.  I'm not even thrilled by using surge protectors with the camper. I will not use a surge protector for the EVSE. YMMV.

So are there EVSEs out there with a NEMA TT plug? I haven't seen one.

Bill&Suze

Hopefully your EVSE already has surge protection as a standard feature, as does mine. Surge protection for the camper's 30 amp system is your call but many owners rely on it. 

Sounds like your EVSE, with its 4 pin adapter, is ready for EV charging at a 50 amp campground outlet. The adapter in the photo I posted is for 50 amp transition from 3 pin EVSE plug to 4 pin campground outlet. Apologies if I confused you.

CatDaddy

Bill&Suze said:

Sounds like your EVSE, with its 4 pin adapter, is ready for EV charging at a 50 amp campground outlet. The adapter in the photo I posted is for 50 amp transition from 3 pin EVSE plug to 4 pin campground outlet. Apologies if I confused you.

I'm all setup if the campground has a NEMA 14-50 (4 pin receptacle).  I am not setup if the campground only has a TT-30 (30A) receptacle.

Can I safely assume that there will be a NEMA6 (110V) receptacle in addition to the 30A?

CatDaddy

Towhee said:

In campgrounds with 50 and 30 amp charging we plug our model Y into the 50 and the camper into the 30.  If only 30 and 15 we use adapters to plug the y into the 30 and the camper into the 15.  Car is charged by the next morning.  Only one power hungry device at a time in the Tab.

FWIW, this seems backward to me. As @d_v correctly pointed out above, portable EVSEs can only draw 12A from a 110V source like the NEMA TT-30 (3 pin, 30A) receptacle.  That is, there is no benefit to plugging the EVSE into the 30A receptacle. It makes more sense, to me, to plug the EVSE into the standard plug (NEMA5) and letting it draw the full 12A from it, and plug the trailer into the NEMA TT-30 (3 pin) receptacle so it can draw the full 30A.

Am I missing something?

Bill&Suze

CatDaddy said:

Bill&Suze said:

Sounds like your EVSE, with its 4 pin adapter, is ready for EV charging at a 50 amp campground outlet. The adapter in the photo I posted is for 50 amp transition from 3 pin EVSE plug to 4 pin campground outlet. Apologies if I confused you.

I'm all setup if the campground has a NEMA 14-50 (4 pin receptacle).  I am not setup if the campground only has a TT-30 (30A) receptacle.

Can I safely assume that there will be a NEMA6 (110V) receptacle in addition to the 30A?

All of the campgrounds I've been to have the basic 110V household outlet and a 30 amp. Not all offer 50 amp. Best chances for 50 amp service would probably be at RV parks.
When you plan to stop at campgrounds on a trip, check their websites to see if some spots they have are 50/30/110V to see if you can reserve one, or just show up and take your chances if you hope to charge the ID.4 overnight.