Upgrade/Repair for the 360 folding seatback

Gomers2

Overall the 360 is pretty slick, but some of the build aspects are not refined. The passenger side bed folds up to become a bench seat for the dinette. The install is just plain sketchy, a few screws shot into the particle board. Mine lasted a couple months before pulling out. My solution was to remove it all and then bolt the hinges onto the board (said board also serves as the cover for the AC and battery compartment. It is much more stable now, and removal of the cover board no longer requires removal of the seat (the seat remains attached to the board). I flipped the board front to back to get some undamaged wood to work with. Each hinge got two 5mm bolts with nyloc nuts, plus a 4mm bolt (which required a new 4mm hole to be drilled in the hinge plate) and that allows for 3 bolts that are not right on the edge of the plywood sheet. Since the bolt ends protrude past the board it was necessary to drill out some indentations for them in the ledger board with a 3/8" forstner bit. 
 

I also replaced the screws that hold the other side of the hinges to the cushion frame - they were short and loose as well.  And I glued and re-screwed the ledger board that was coming loose around the cavity perimeter.  NuCamp, I'm just going to say the obvious: wouldn't it be easier and cheaper for you to have done this right initially, compared with someone taking it in for warranty service? It's not your first camper, did you really think those screws in particle board were going to hold up?

SLJ

Interesting. One of the things I noticed when I saw first the 360 was it wasn't put together as well as my '21 320. I might have tried T-Nuts with shorter screws to fix that problem.

Trailpixie

I am taking delivery of my 360 in a couple weeks, so you posting is very interesting to me. There is no doubt that this is shoddy workmanship. I will need to check that on my new one. 

On a side note, it doesn't look like what you are showing in the picture is particle board. That looks like plywood which would be considered very high quality for this kind of product--though it obviously isn't good when the screws are so close to the edge. 

ckjs

Gomers2 said:

.... The passenger side bed folds up to become a bench seat for the dinette. The install is just plain sketchy, a few screws shot into the particle board. Mine lasted a couple months before pulling out. 

It is plywood (rather than particle board), but any screws driven into the "edge" of the plies like that will have very little pull-out strength.  A bit disappointing from nuCamp. Your bolt fix should work great.

MuttonChops

This is disappointing construction method news . . . .

On the (older) 320S the rear bench seat hinges are firmly/correctly mounted to 1x2 ish boards not into the edge of a plywood panel.

It is getting harder for me to justify a nüCamp trailer price as their design/material choices and construction build plans seem to be heading toward the RV industry cheap solutions . . . not the nüCamp of old. . .
      360 concern one kitchen layout
      360 concern two  cassette only
      TAB concern lower quality cabinet materials
      now clear design/construction failure

Basil48192

Depending upon how far your dealer is, I would still make a warranty claim.  They should replace the panel in it entirety....then you can modify it as you did the original.  Maybe if they get enough warranty claims, they will reevaluate their quality control standards.
I have a 2021 and have been very happy with the quality.  I bought my T@B because of their reputation...I hope they get back to their previous levels soon!

Gomers2

(Yes, obviously that is plywood. The long screws were supposed to hold into the legerboard which is plywood on edge, so essentially particle board strength - sorry that I misnamed the product but the implication is the same.) 
As to taking it back for warranty, that's just not worth the time and trip, or trips. The repair is not visible fortunately. Now, if NuCamp wants to send me a board, that'd be great.  In any case, I'm pleased with the unit overall and these are annoying but ultimately minor problems. After 5K miles I believe the construction is solid. @MuttonChops, I knew exactly what the kitchen and bath config was when ordering so I can hardly complain about it now. We're fine with the cassette (limited use) and I am modding the kitchen to fit our needs. Nothing is perfect for all users, and we love the giant fridge. (We also like to cook out front, where we access the LP via the mini-door.)  It is fair to say NuCamp needs to keep an eye on quality, that much is true. Some of the charging system was not wired correctly, which was a pain to diagnose and not something I should have had to mess with. I think if I had less time or troubleshooting experience I'd be more PO'd.  I can see how it happens when you're integrating many components from 3rd party vendors, but you need some QC process to make sure that gets done correctly. Not making excuses for them, but I will say when we compare the 360 to other brands owned by friends and relatives it looks real solid overall.  

Basil48192

Good to hear.  

elbolillo

These types of minor construction problems seemed to have crept in during the pandemic. Our '21 Tab 320 had a few of these issues and our current '23 Tab 400 as well. There are a number of issues that I think that NuCamp could fix with very little or no additional cost and I think it would go a long way to establishing more confidence in their product.

One of the issues that I ran into with our '23 Tab 400 was that the Nautilus box was not water tight and any water that accumulated in the bottom of the box leaked into the cabin. This is just poor design. This box should be made without seams on the bottom that need to be caulked.

Thankfully, I like tinkering and have been able to make any needed adjustments.

BillJ70

@elbolillo (I've been coming to this site for years (lurking!), but just created an account)  Our 2024 320 had the same issue with water leaking into the cabin from the improperly sealed/caulked Nautilus box.  I fixed it myself, but this issue and a number of other QC items (caulking, door alignment, etc.) were disappointing for sure (and yeah, as others have said-- still better than most other manufacturers).  Looking at the 360 and the upcoming 320 Lite, it seems like Nucamp might be in a rush to get new models out there without refining things.  The issue that @Gomers2 describes in this post is really unacceptable.  It's hard to believe that this screw placement (and screw type) was signed off on by anyone at Nucamp.  I imagine that every 360 sold this year will have this same issue eventually.  Those screws should really be into some type of backer board (under the plywood) with washers as well.  The torque created by those particular seat hinges requires more than screws in the edge of some plywood.  And what bugs me is that they know this and put it out like this anyway.    

BillJ70

 @Gomers2 Just curious-- did you ever talk to Nucamp about this seat issue?  I'd be curious to know their response-- and importantly, if they are planning to address the design issue.  

Gomers2

Well I definitely made them aware of the problem and the fact they may have an ongoing issue. (I suggested they put together a retrofit kit for the existing owners. Not sure they are ready to do that however. ) They did offer to have it repaired under warranty. However at this time that would consist of replacing it the way it was originally built, which doesn't seem worth the trouble to me and it's not how I want it done. Instead they agreed to send out a new board and I will devise an even more robust bottom plate and install the seat to my satisfaction. Since this is not an essential systems or safety related issue I'm okay with that resolution. 

Basil48192

Good call.  You can start with a nice, unblemished piece and incorporate your improved mounting method.  And, at least Nucamp is aware of the issue now.

Gomers2

UPDATE: I replaced the board, and added large metal plates below to act as one big washer. Three bolts on each hinge. The result is very sturdy indeed. Also decided to split the cover boards so that the battery compartment can be easily accessed without dealing with the seat moumt. This requires the addition of ledger boards on the support wall between the AC and battery compartments, but it's not difficult. 

BillJ70

Good work, @Gomers2.  I'm not as familiar with the 360 layout, but see that the batteries are in the back there. Your new seat mount looks sturdy-- and hopefully Nucamp will do the same on new builds (as they should have before).  

Is this your replacement board?  I'm assuming it is since it's not the same wrapped plywood that came with the original.  You mentioned that they were going to send you a new board.  Also, I guess that section of the board under the seat there has to be screwed down or it would pop up when leaning on it. 

I've always wondered about the hinge screws going into the seat itself.  I suppose they've held up in 320s, so they should here.  There's just so much torque on those spots-- and they are relying on some fairly short screws. 

When you have a second, would you mind posting a few more pictures of the seat in place and what it looks like behind it (where you have that battery access cover.  It would be nice to know what would be involved if the next 360s are the same (assuming, of course, we'd be willing to buy it with those issues).  

Gomers2

The hinge screws going into the seat could be better. I snugged them all and they are fine for now at least. I am able to sit up, and recline for reading, with no wobble. Very sturdy. Hopefully optimistic that it will work as designed now that it is robustly secured. (And yes, the panel under the seat is screwed down with 8 of the NC square heads.).  When I decided to make the battery a separate access panel I couldn't bring myself to cut the big sheet they sent me. Decided to save that for future buildouts, maybe a shelf or storage cubby. Will add some pictures...

manyman297

I’ve said this before on the forum but they really need to teach people in the factory how to use an impact drill. When we took delivery of our 400 back in 2021 I don’t know how many glue and toothpick repairs I had to make to stripped out holes in the cabinetry. You really shouldn’t even be using an impact drill to make cabinetry. A regular drill with the clutch set to an appropriate limit is the most consistent way to avoid stripping out the threads in wood.

CatDaddy

manyman297 said:

I’ve said this before on the forum but they really need to teach people in the factory how to use an impact drill. When we took delivery of our 400 back in 2021 I don’t know how many glue and toothpick repairs I had to make to stripped out holes in the cabinetry. You really shouldn’t even be using an impact drill to make cabinetry. A regular drill with the clutch set to an appropriate limit is the most consistent way to avoid stripping out the threads in wood.

Completely agree! Most of the screws with Robertson (square) drive in my 2022 320S are significantly over driven. The one with Phillips (Posidriv?) heads are stripped. For whatever reason, the screws used to attached the hinges for the folding seat back are Phillips but the cabinet screws are Robertson.

The screw heads are so cammed out that that I cannot tell if they were once Phillips or Pozidriv.

To make things more interesting, they are 1-5/8 inch, standard conical flat-head screws, which isn't a common size. I ended up replacing them with these Robertson drive screws. The description on Amazon says they are bugle-head screws but I received standard conical flat-head screws.

manyman297

Yeah, there’s zero reason to be using an impact driver on cabinets. It’s overkill and you have no feedback to know if you’ve driven a screw in tight or not. A drill with a clutch properly set is much more forgiving and will tell you when it’s tight. Worst case i’d rather have to retighten a screw vs. fixing an overdriven one. 

BillJ70

I wonder if @jkjenn had a similar issue with that seat connection-- or really any other fit/finish issues with the 360-- after spending some months with it.  I'm still considering the 360 down the road and would be interested in any issues like this or others that might have popped up.  I'm also curious to see the CS, but worried about what is going to happen to the beds/storage.   

jkjenn

BillJ70 said:

I wonder if @jkjenn had a similar issue with that seat connection-- or really any other fit/finish issues with the 360-- after spending some months with it.  I'm still considering the 360 down the road and would be interested in any issues like this or others that might have popped up.  I'm also curious to see the CS, but worried about what is going to happen to the beds/storage.   

I did have a similar issue with the passenger side dinette seat this fall (not right away) and nuCamp repaired it. This has already been rectified in production so newer models should not have this issue. Don't ask me what the remedy they implemented in production was, because I don't remember. The repair has had no issues, whatsoever, and feels very solid. (Sitting in that seat at a campground, right now.)




Overall, it is probably not fair to compare fit and finish of a prototype with a production model unit, as a prototype does not undergo the same process and is used to test and try things. That said, it's been solid, even after months on the road and somewhere in the ballpark of 7,000 miles - so much so that I am camping in it right now. Think about the different real-life "pressure testing" I put it through:

• About 7,000 miles of travel for roughly 4+ months of continuous use
• 3 straight weeks of boondocking - I could have gone on, but had reservations in a hot climate, so AC was a must
• Travel through mountain passes
• Significant rain, sun, and wind exposure - probably the windiest I have ever experienced in a TAB
• Travel on rough forest service roads and other rough dirt roads - plus I-70 in Indiana (that's its own special brand of brutal)
• Full hook-up camping
  
• Extended hours inside of the camper due to remote work and Covid, thus additional wear and tear
• I don't use campground bathroom facilities - I use the TAB almost exclusively.
• Shih Tzu tested and approved

I am sure I would have forgot to track, but tracking hours in the TAB 360 would have been an interesting data point to track as due to work they would be high. 

Based on a recent interview with Jesse Mullet and also my own recent visits to nuCamp, I see an even deeper commitment to quality and attention to detail. IMHO, it's easy to focus on the few defects that get brought up online, but overall, nuCamp is still an industry leader in quality and bests the competition with warranty claims. I am more confident today in nuCamp's commitment to quality as I was in 2014, when I bought my first TAB. 

BillJ70

Thanks for this super thorough response, @jkjenn!  And I think you are certainly correct-- we tend to see the more (maybe mostly) negative stuff and problems mentioned on-line, since most of the people without issues are too busy having a good time in their campers to come tell everybody about it.  

I'm looking forward to seeing one of these in person in the next few months.  After having a 320, the extra interior space of the 360 and that fridge are big plusses (and the twin beds, etc.)

By the way, I know you tow with an SUV.  You've clearly had no problems towing everywhere you've wanted to go this year, but did you notice a big difference with your TV and the extra weight of the 360?  I have a Ridgeline (5000 capacity), so I should be fine with the extra weight. 

elbolillo

Based on a recent interview with Jesse Mullet and also my own recent visits to nuCamp, I see an even deeper commitment to quality and attention to detail. IMHO, it's easy to focus on the few defects that get brought up online, but overall, nuCamp is still an industry leader in quality and bests the competition with warranty claims. I am more confident today in nuCamp's commitment to quality as I was in 2014, when I bought my first TAB. 

This is what NuCamp needs to really focus on and it seems from the brief interview with Jesse Mullet that it is something they will be working on. Our Tab is a '23 400, built at the height of COVID, so without a doubt supply chain issues came into play. However, there are a number of things that I have seen in the construction of the camper that boil down to simple training and consistency. I have done many modifications to our camper and have had most areas opened up and there are a number of things that could be improved upon. As many have mentioned, the simple task of driving in fasteners correctly is a big issue. The plumbing layout and install could be cleaned up. Better attention to the wiring and how it is installed can be improved. And something as simple as cleaning up the sawdust and miscellaneous shavings made during construction. (There was a lot that I had to clean up.)

Most of these issues really aren't about the bottom dollar. Implementing better quality controls and standards would actually result in cost savings and a more satisfied customer.