When it doesn't feel safe

jkjenn

I pulled into a state recreation area in Nebraska earlier and just as I had nicely backed into my spot, I glance to my left and notice a drug deal occurring. I promptly pulled out and headed down the road. I had not paid yet, thankfully. I noticed the area I drove through to get to the campground was not that nice and will let that be a guide in the future.

RZRBUG

Same thing at a city park in Kansas in June, except I had to leave early in the morning before daylight in foggy conditions.

After I gave it some thought, these kinds of places (close to towns and cities) are natural after dark gathering places for such activities.  They are often unsupervised and unpatrolled and away from traffic.  I have put them on my do not stop list.

Nomad

Hmmm - I've had good luck with them. Prefer county over munis though - quieter.
Had one where there were a few more people stopping through to use the vault toilet than seemed appropriate but none threatening.
Edit-Add: Only experience in NE so far has been in the eastern third though.

Nomad

What route through Nebraska did you take - If you don't mind telling.

Verna

Good move, Jenn. If it doesn't feel right, there's other campgrounds. Be safe. 

jkjenn

RZRBUG said:

Same thing at a city park in Kansas in June, except I had to leave early in the morning before daylight in foggy conditions.

After I gave it some thought, these kinds of places (close to towns and cities) are natural after dark gathering places for such activities.  They are often unsupervised and unpatrolled and away from traffic.  I have put them on my do not stop list.

I had the same exact thought, Larry.

Sadly, Walmart felt much safer, further down the road.

PXLated said:

What route through Nebraska did you take - If you don't mind telling.

I-80...the campground was Buffalo Bill SRA in North Platte.

I was pretty tired so I had decided to stop early and do a regular campground. Instead, I took an hour to rest at the local Walmart and headed much further down the road.

Sgtjohn

What would one do when the drug dealers...or worse accosted us and flashed a gun if we were in our T@B or outside the unit?

JustJohn

Sgtjohn said:

What would one do when the drug dealers...or worse accosted us and flashed a gun if we were in our T@B or outside the unit?

Respond in kind.

Michigan_Mike

Sgtjohn said:

What would one do when the drug dealers...or worse accosted us and flashed a gun if we were in our T@B or outside the unit?

I'd probably be on the horn to call 9-11 immediately or when the obvious threat or perilous situation passed.  I would certainly not play John Wayne and would get out of the area as quickly as possible.  It's important that people go with their gut feeling in these types of situations and not try to be a hero if there are individuals brandishing firearms.  Best thing is to survey the situation, recall pertinent things about suspects, get into a safe zone and report it.  The National Park lands are notorious for drug activities and this has been going on for many years.  I've heard that many pristine areas have also been contaminated with meth lab activities and via other contraband.  

I've never had any issues stopping off and camping in either city or county owned parks.  Most of the time there are not many campers when I've arrived, but I tend to be at these locations during the week and on off hour times.  And have never had any issues in Walmart areas but did leave the Chattanooga, TN Walmart be cause it was rather loud and the traffic in and out didn't seem to ever slow down.  It's like anything else, you need to be looking around, aware of your environment and move along if you don't feel right or get that strange feeling that something isn't right.  This even pertains to occupied campgrounds, as they are not immune to violence and domestic disturbances.  I've moved from sites before and since these units are easy enough to tear down and relocate, sometimes that is the best thing to do.  

JustJohn

Mike is absolutely correct but I was responding to being threatened with a firearm, inside or out side your T@B.... too late for 911.

USWildflowers

Michigan_Mike said:

did leave the Chattanooga, TN Walmart be cause it was rather loud and the traffic in and out didn't seem to ever slow down.

Out of curiosity, Mike, which Walmart? There are about a half dozen in Chattanooga... Probably the one off I-24 exit 174 would be the quietest of them.

Nomad

JustJohn - If you're being accosted already, it's also too late to respond in kind.

Nomad

A conversation in a rural Kansas gas station...
Customer: Did you hear about Bob?
Cashier: No, what happened to Bob?
Customer: He though some meth heads were going to try to hijack his car, he reached down between his seats, pulled out his gun and shot out his windshield.
Cashier: You're kidding me!
(lots of laughter ensued)
Me: Sounds like that didn't work out well.
Customer: He should have just hit the gas and gone instead of playing Wyatt Erp. Probably lucky he got his windshield rather than a person. Idiot.

True conversation.

twocutes

My sister and I had a creepy feeling about some campgrounds west of Dickinson, ND, this summer.  We didn't see anything, but definitely used our instinct and landed at WalMart.  

Nomad

Lots of roughnecks in that whole area of ND because of the oil fields by Williston. Lots of transients in certain campgrounds. Found abandoned campers in one small campground between Theo North and South.
Edit-Add: Read an article last week where abandoned campers/RVs have been a big problem in the area since they've lost 3000+ oil field jobs. Roughnecks just up and leave them.

jkjenn

I also had an uncomfortable encounter at a rest area in Indiana, not far from Chicago,  where a man was going around and saying he was stranded and asking for help. I just ignored him and walked away. This is highly against many of our natures, to ignore someone asking for help, but it just didn't feel right. I looked for a police officer at the rest area but did not find one. Later, I saw this man get into the car with an even larger man, who also made me feel uncomfortable. I am not a shrinking violet, but would rather avoid a situation, if possible.

Nomad

Jenn - Encountered those types in Kingman and Quartzite, AZ (in town)

JustJohn

PXLated said:

JustJohn - If you're being accosted already, it's also too late to respond in kind.

Good point! It is always best to avoid confrontation whenever possible but when you can't, each person should respond in the way they feel most comfortable. In the end, caution and good judgement are your best defenses against unpleasant situations. 

Michigan_Mike

USWildflowers said:

Michigan_Mike said:

did leave the Chattanooga, TN Walmart be cause it was rather loud and the traffic in and out didn't seem to ever slow down.

Out of curiosity, Mike, which Walmart? There are about a half dozen in Chattanooga... Probably the one off I-24 exit 174 would be the quietest of them.

I was coming from the north on I-75 and it might have been the store off Gun Barrel Road?

Michigan_Mike

jkjenn said:

I also had an uncomfortable encounter at a rest area in Indiana, not far from Chicago,  where a man was going around and saying he was stranded and asking for help. I just ignored him and walked away. This is highly against many of our natures, to ignore someone asking for help, but it just didn't feel right. 

I've helped people before only to find out later from others that it was a scam.  Once you are dishonest to me then it wrecks it for others in the future.  I had a black lady come up to me in a rest stop on the way back from Oklahoma who said her house had burned and they were without a home and needed money.  I told her that all I had was a credit card so her story ended......  Most people want to help others as this is human nature.  However with the scammers out at the expressway off ramps, wandering around gas stations, fast food restaurants and other places where people are in higher numbers this is the case.  I even had a woman try to scam me a few weeks back while leaving a medical facility but I told her no thank you!  Many of these  individuals are well seasoned/experienced panhandlers, they are persistent and unrelenting and can actually be rude and foul mouthed when rebuked.  

I will continue to be vigilant, never pick up hitch-hikers and consider my personal safety and the safety of my family members and loved ones paramount to falling victim to individuals with less than genuine intent, who are unsavory and dishonest.  But I will also continue to donate to the local food bank, Goodwill and other worthy/charitable organizations of my choice who do their best to help others in need when their luck is down.  

Sgtjohn

May I suggest if possible we camp where other campers are and to always be alert at rest stops and accompany our wife to the bathroom and wait on her until she comes out.  Never answer our door until we are sure we know who it is and verify it is safe.  Remember the Oklahoma couple that pulled over and their lives were taken by escaped convicts from Arizona?  The couple had concealed carry licenses but it didn't help them....

Michigan_Mike

Sgtjohn said:

May I suggest if possible we camp where other campers are and to always be alert at rest stops and accompany our wife to the bathroom and wait on her until she comes out.  Never answer our door until we are sure we know who it is and verify it is safe.  Remember the Oklahoma couple that pulled over and their lives were taken by escaped convicts from Arizona?  The couple had concealed carry licenses but it didn't help them....

I do the above too and have even pulled in behind major hotel chains to catch a few hours of rest in the trailer while traveling cross-country.  I'm discreet about it and obviously also find nice campgrounds as opposed to rolling the dice and sleeping in a rest area.  I've never been much for rest area sleep-overs as they do attract individuals who are desperate and down on their luck.  And I do remember the couple who were murdered by the ex-con and his girlfriend, but do not remember where they were accosted?  Was it via a rest area?  

When I'm traveling I tend to time my travel so I am an area where there are campgrounds and decent RV parks, etc.  I've also never forgotten a German couple who were murdered along the road out on one the Crow Indian reservation (as I recall) out west.  

Sgtjohn

The couple by the name os Hass were accosted in a rest stop in 2010.  One can read all about it on google.  Type in Oklahoma couple rest stop Arizona escapees rv burned.
Mike, I like your idea of pulling in a hotel chain and RON (remain overnight AF talk).  I was aware of Cracker Barrel, Walmart, Flying J etc.  That explains why I see RV's in the parking lots behind hotels. I've told the wife that "I wonder why they're staying at a hotel if they have an RV." I learned something today!

larrygon

Here in Flagstaff we have a large community of transients that come here in the summer due to the cool weather. There is a program locally that has a voucher program for local area stores. Works on weeding out the really needy but most people that are in the area do not know about it.

My second concern on this discussion is the gun carry. I own and carry but worry about the laws in other states that I might not be aware of. I do not want to end up like the recent people who were arrested in New Jersey who had legally owned and licensed guns in their state but wound up felons in NJ for disclosing that they had a firearm in their possession. 

jkjenn

I should clarify that I only stopped at the rest area to use the bathroom. Rest areas are also big portals for human trafficking. The campground I stopped at was a state recreation area, with other campers present and had received decent ratings on a couple of different websites. I think people are sometimes completely oblivious to drug activities.

I keep both my car keys and bear spray handy when camping. The "panic" button on your keys can be a pretty significant safety feature and the bear spray will, without a doubt, incapacitate anyone who comes to close and does not heed warning.

I felt completely safe for the 5 nights I spent in Walmart parking lots. At one store, the clerk even said it was a very safe area.

I remember a few years back my friend and I were being followed by someone in Aspen. Aspen is not exactly what you think of when you think of unsafe locations, but bad people can show up anywhere. The key is to be alert. I waited until we were in an area with a lot of people pulled my friend aside and said loud enough for him to hear me, "He's following us." He quickly took off. He was clean cut and  good looking - not your usual suspect, but I had taken a couple of sudden, unexpected turns to see if he had been indeed following us. Like I said, I am not a shrinking violet, but getting into any type of incident is not only potentially dangerous, it can become an administrative headache if law enforcement has to become involved.

This is my 5th straight year of taking a 5,000+ mile trip and those are the extent of the my uncomfortable situations. People in the US are generally good people.

Nomad

This is such a big country that it's hard to generalize - And Jenn, you're right, mostly good, helpful, friendly people even if at first you might be leery. If you're friendly, they're usually friendly back. We're all more comfortable with - and in - the environments we grew up in. Get into a different environment and you can feel like a fish out of water. I always try to remember that in those environs, I may make them nervous at first also.

Sgtjohn

All the would-be attackers are not scruffy and dirty, some are neat and clean-cut and look like our neighbor's college age kid.  I have  lifetime concealed carry license from Oklahoma and research th states that reciprocate before I take a trip.

Nomad

Yep - A Ted Bundy type would have had your behind before you could reveal your carry :-)
The trouble I see is if you pull too early and you're wrong your in jail for assault with a deadly. Pull too late and it's too late. Odds just aren't very good and the ramifications are too serious if you blow it in the slightest.

Sgtjohn

When I worked at the local Veterans Hospital I had a patient who lived in a seedy area and when he mowed his lawn he had a gun on his hip.  He said he'd shoot someone if they attacked him and I said you'll go to jail.  His reply was, "I'd still be alive.  I said after some thought, "yes you would."  Yep Pix, you're right in your assessment, but like Davy Crockett said, "Be sure before you jump."  I don't open carry, I don't usually carry, only when traveling and I don't advertise and I'm not a Redneck.  I'd use it only as a last resort if I couldn't out talk or outrun the bad guys.  

Nomad

Pepper/Bear spray - Might get sued but won't won't go to jail :-)

larrygon

PXLated said:

Pepper/Bear spray - Might get sued but won't won't go to jail :-)

Check again. In DC it is illegal until you register with the police.

"More Details on Washington D.C. Pepper Spray Laws
Residents and visitors to DC may want to ensure their own safety by carrying a non lethal self defense device such as pepper spray or a MACE brand chemical spray. These personal security items may be purchased in the state, but before a citizen may legally possess any type of safety spray they must first register the weapon at a local police station. This allows law enforcement officers to know exactly who is carrying any type of defense spray and to help make sure they are used in a lawful manner. Only people who are 18 years or older may purchase and register a canister of spray on their own, but anyone 14 or older may do so as long as they have the permission of a parent or legal guardian."
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/pages/washington-dc-laws

There are more restrictions in other states found here;
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/pages/states

Don't forget that in certain states, even BB/Pellet guns are considered firearms and are illegal under certain circumstances.
http://pelletgunzone.com/air-gun-laws/