WFCO Ultra III Power Center (Model WF-8735P)

1philp

I have a new 2015 T@B CS-S and had a problem about a month ago, and would like to know if anyone else has experienced the same problem.  Late one evening while walking around my T@B, the front storage area where the battery and propane tank are stored was so hot you could not touch it.  I shut off the power going to T@B, opened up the storage top and the battery had boiled over and was in the process of melting.   The WFCO Ultra III Power Center (Model WF-8735P) inside the unit was also so hot it could not be touched.

I took pictures and contacted Little Guy and a new converter was sent to me and a new battery would be installed when I took the T@B to the dealer for the repairs.  The service was nothing but great until the dealer called me telling me the T@B was ready to pick up and explained the problem was caused by us keeping the T@B plugged into the shore power thus allowing the battery to overcharge and letting it go dry.  We were aIso told that since the DC power out of the power center was 13.2 volts, chances are the power center was probably good, but they installed the new new power center as requested.  There was no cost to me as everything was repaired under warranty.

As an engineer, I have this driving compulsion to see how something works or why it broke down.  So, I called WFCO manufacturer and talked to the production engineer giving him the following information;

(1)  Age of Battery, 2 Mo,  (2)  Actual Number of 24 Hours days the battery was Under Charge, 16 Days, (3) Last Time Battery was Checked for Water Level, 5 Days prior to failure.  The engineer stated that I had a failure in the three stage switching power supply and both battery and power center needed replace.  He also stated the three stage power center is designed with three modes of charging (Absorption, Bulk and Float) and can be energized all the time with battery connected as long as the battery is checked and watered if needed every 4-6 weeks.

This is where the problem arises, I know electronic devices fail, especially new ones when put under a load.  The manufacture assures me this is not typical but occasionally does happen.  On the other hand I have no less than 3 technicians at the dealer telling me never to leave the shore power energized if a battery is connected for an extended time.  It is hard to dispute the information from the technicians as they work on these systems everyday.

Has anyone experienced this problem?  Not knowing who to believe, I installed a battery switch since the voltage drop in a lead acid battery is about 2 volts in a 6 month period when not being used or charged.

 

 

Nomad

My converter went bad - differently than yours - so they do fail. I guess instead of hooking into the shore power outlet while stored, I'd just use a battery tender hooked into household current directly to the battery bypassing the converter.

jkjenn

I have not heard of this problem. Have you tested your power source, too?

Tabster

I've had my CS plugged in continuously for 9 months, with the exception of a few weekend camping trips. No problems at all. I keep my fridge on so i don't have to bring butter etc into the house - or remember to pack it. 

ChanW

Ours is always plugged into shore power whenever we're not camping.

I've kept track of the battery water level, and had to add a few tablespoons once, in two plus years.

A good three stage charger is designed to be connected all the time.

I'd go with the manufacturer's knowledge of their product. (And I'd question why the techs are giving you wrong information)

That's a good warning for us all, though. Kind of scary. I wonder how often these Converters fail that way. yikes.

Librarydragon

We had a similar experience. We arrived home after picking up the tab. No battery power and the fuse blown. So we thought the battery had been deeply discharged and needed to be charged. We replaced the fuse and plugged it into shore power. Many hours later we smelled something like hot tar. The battery case was very hot. A couple of days later the dealer replaced the battery and checked all of the electrical. They said there had been problems with a shipment of batteries. We have not had any problems since then. We don't keep it continuously on shore power because of the lack of power close to the tab.
Bottom line, a shorted cell in the battery could produce the same result.

1philp

Thanks for all the comments.  Since I was in the process of installing an internal surge protector, I also installed a multi battery switch and a circuit to support the 12151 Batter Minder.  My next project will be designing a solar array using 2 semi-flexible bendable 100 watt panels for use in the Southwest.

Mr_Mrs_Gnome

1philp said:

Thanks for all the comments.  Since I was in the process of installing an internal surge protector, I also installed a multi battery switch and a circuit to support the 12151 Batter Minder.  My next project will be designing a solar array using 2 semi-flexible bendable 100 watt panels for use in the Southwest.

What solar panels will you be using?

Michigan_Mike

I've contacted the factory in the past regarding this question and they said that although the manufacturer does state that you can keep these units plugged in full time, they recommend that you use discretion and to do so in smaller increments of a week or so to help preserve the unit and to keep the battery charged up.  I tend to agree and believe that heat has an impact on any electrical component as it does on batteries.  

I would agree with the engineer too.  If a charge stage is defective or fails in the electric converter it could easily overheat a battery and boil the water out of it, so it's imperative that batteries be maintained, water levels checked and refilled with distilled water as needed if a battery isn't sealed and can be maintained.   

Bill_in_Tulsa

So, this says that if I am camped with shore power for 5 or 6 months, I can not keep my trailer hooked to power? Confusing.

ChanW

I don't know, Bill_in_Tulsa, I think it just means that it should just be kept an eye on, being sure the battery's water is up, etc.

I'm not much of a gambler, but my reasoning says...

The WFCO unit in the Tab is designed to keep your battery continuously properly charged.

Like any electronic device, it can fail, and this unit could cause catastrophic damage if the failure isn't caught when it happens.

The way I figure it, that device-failure could happen anytime - when the device is continuously plugged in, or when you only plug it in now and then. The main thing is to know when it happens, ie 'keep an eye on things'.

My personal approach is to keep it plugged in. I think that keeping the electronics powered on all the time, continually energized and warmed up, is better for the electronic components, and that they will be less likely to burn out that way, than if they go through the "shock" of being powered up/down more often.

Six of one, half dozen of another. But I tend to lose when I gamble, so take it for what it's worth...  B-)

Michigan_Mike

Bill_in_Tulsa said:

So, this says that if I am camped with shore power for 5 or 6 months, I can not keep my trailer hooked to power? Confusing.

It's really not that confusing as you do have choices and can do whatever you are comfortable with doing Bill or that works best for you.  Most of the information shared comes from both the factory and the manufacturers of these units.  I was told by Scott Hubble that they experience about a 2% or less failure rate on the newer electric converters installed in the Little Guy and T@B trailer units.  Prior to this the manufacturer of the other converter units installed (they switched manufacturers as a result of the prior problems) had sent out inferior units that resulted in premature failure problems over two years ago.  

For me personally, I normally filter all information provided as it applies to my vehicles, electrical components and these trailers.  I normally never buy any extended warranties on items as it sends a signal to me that I've got a pretty good product and this is a way for many manufacturers to make even more money, and to date, I have not had to replace anything store bought, on vehicles, etc.  But this obviously doesn't apply to everyone and others luck differs.

As for the electric converters:

1.  If you feel the need to keep your trailer plugged in full time this is your choice.  Obviously when you are camped you will be using the 12 volt and 110 volt systems during your stay and should you camp for 5-6 months straight you no doubt WILL keep the trailer plugged in, but after your one-year warranty is up on your trailer and should the electric converter go out you will be footing the bill.  

2.  If you use any electrical component prudently and sparingly, chances are it will probably last a little longer as heat and continued use DO take their toll on things over time.  No, this doesn't guarantee longevity for everything as stuff does happen, but the odds for me have worked favorably and I normally do things that have worked well in the past for me and this is one of them.

3.  If I were to keep my trailer plugged in to an energy source full time (which I normally do not do) I would probably opt for an energy source that provides me a means of sufficiently charging up/maintaining my battery at a price that I can afford or should it fail, will be less expensive to replace than an electric converter.  This would probably be a lesser expensive battery tender as these devices do the job and do work well.  

4.  I installed a solar charge station in my garage (50 watt Renogy monocrystalline panel mounted on the side of my garage, solar controller inside garage) and also installed a battery shut-off switch on my battery.  This allows me the ability to charge any battery I have and should I leave the trailer stored remotely I do not have to deal with parasitic draw on the battery.  

KyBawpaw

Is there anyway to test the onboard WFCO unit to know it is working properly? I'm not an electrician but I have more than novice knowledge and I own a good multimeter and battery hydrometer. Like to know it's doing its job properly.

Michigan_Mike

If I were checking it I would probably test as follows:

1.  With trailer unplugged from shore power - measure/record the trailer voltage via the cigarette style plug receptacles or at the battery using an LED meter, etc.

2.  Plug the trailer into shore power and repeat the above process.

3.  Unhook trailer from shore power and unhook the battery.

(a)  once the battery is isolated from the system, plug the trailer back into shore power and measure the DC voltage at the cigarette style receptacle.  The voltage output should be around 13.3 -13.6 volts DC.  

That should give you a pretty good idea whether the WFCO is working properly and providing a good charge to your battery or not.  

KyBawpaw

Thanks. I'll give that a try.

Brettster

Hello. Recently picked up T@B from storage. Battery is 100% but no power from battery. Changed fuse and checked converter breakers. System OK on shore power. What's next?

ChanW

There are two fuses you can check for the battery. One is in the breaker box, and one is inline on the wire connected to the positive battery terminal.